Eth's -25% defense

[JustAGuy]

How does this work exactly?

I have an ETH in my Stormeye for my "Holy Shocker", and I was curious about the -25% defense. I had always assumed that every hit with this scepter would reduce the target's defense by 25%, each and every hit, until eventually the amount of defense being reduced is negligable, i.e. around 0. Basically, the effect is static field in a scepter (when it hits) for one monster.

A friend asked me about it, and it brought to light that my assumption may have been false. I cannot answer fully what it does because I can't really be sure.

Does the -25% affect the monster only once? Does it keep reducing defense over and over? Does it wear off (a la PMH)? If it only affects the monster once, then that would explain everyone's fascination with 4 ETH weapons (-100% in 1 shot)...

[adeyke]

It doesn't change the monster's defense at all. It only affects its effective defense against your attacks. That is, it's a passive effect. You don't "tag" monsters with it.

So, if you have a single-Eth weapon, that means the monster's defense is effectively 25% less. This is the same as if your total AR was 33% more. As soon as you switch away from the weapon, you'll lose the effect. Other players, mercs and minions are entirely unaffected by you having that Eth.

[JustAGuy]

Ah, the clarity. Makes sense now.

You = best. Thanks for the prompt reply!

Begs the question though -- the "-defense" attribute (non-percentage). Does that tag a monster? Does anything tag a monster (other than cold/poison/slow)?

[Obi2Kenobi]

No. It works exactly like the -resistances from a Rainbow facet. Monsters can be tagged by: Conviction, Curses, Open Wounds, PMH, slow, chill, poison, flee (is there any difference between Terror and flee?), Battle Cry, Taunt, and possibly some others...

[HunkyDory]

Yes, that does tag a monster as a counter has to be kept what the current defense of that monster is after you have hit it.

Unknown to me is :

If other players (your minions) benefit from this
If there is a cap on how low you can get the Monster's defense

Rainbow Facet jewels work completely different than the -number defense mechanism.

I am too lazy to test it but one could test on Baal with a physical attacker while wearing Souldrainers.


Regards, Hunky
P.S. And if this works at all, this one screams for to be bugged as lots of things can go wrong with this function.

[Obi2Kenobi]

Rainbow Facet jewels work completely different than the -number defense mechanism.

Oops... I responded to the wrong post. I had meant that they work the same as the Eth rune's -25% defense. I can't even think of an item off the top of my head with -defense... <_<

[Crystalion]

Monsters can be tagged by: Conviction, Curses, Open Wounds, PMH, slow, chill, poison, flee (is there any difference between Terror and flee?), Battle Cry, Taunt, and possibly some others...

Stun, War Cry, Shock Wave, Rabies, Cloak of Shadows, Slow Missiles, Inner Sight, freezing, Holy Freeze, Conversion, Mind Blast and possibly some others... :D

(and it hardly seems fair to collapse "curses", does it? ;) )
(e.g. since you mentioned poison, I imagine "burning" is possible to apply, but I've not kept track of those skills)
(another esoteric example might be the messed up way Sanctuary works, or rather, doesn't work... but I don't know).

p.s. yes, there are some differences in application of Terror and hit-flee and Grim Ward and Howl, but the "tagged" part is all the same (monster ai change), afaik.

edit: telekinesis, Leap, psychic hammer, bash, mind blast, smite and charge all, iirc, attempt knockback, which, if successful, seems to interrupt the monster and put them into hit recovery... this would be one of my favorite "tags" even though it doesn't last very long, usually (so chain cast!)

p.s. on topic: Malice weapon runeword at -100 and Soul Drainer gloves at -50 to monster defense per successful hit are pretty cool, if you can apply enough of them to make a difference ('sin blade fury is a neat way to malice things)... this is sticky, aka a "tag"

[bigeyedbug]

Malice weapon runeword at -100 and Soul Drainer gloves at -50 to monster defense per successful hit are pretty cool, if you can apply enough of them to make a difference ('sin blade fury is a neat way to malice things)... this is sticky, aka a "tag"

Definitely one of the coolest things about Malice. Very nice for dealing with bosses, particularly if you can keep your cronies alive to take advantage of it as well.

I'm wondering how long this effect lasts. Is it similar in (erratic) duration to PMH? How does the game decide when to shut these off?...or forget to sustain them, as seems more likely.

[Crystalion]

I'm wondering how long this effect lasts.&nbsp; Is it similar in (erratic) duration to PMH?&nbsp; How does the game decide when to shut these off?...or forget to sustain them, as seems more likely.

Beats me.

I seem to recall reports that some necros in prior versions took advantage of terror-sped hyper zombies and frenzied 'taurs as revives. In other words, effects might even last past death, in some cases.

Certainly it occurred to me previously to have a friend Malice tap an Iron golem made from CTC on being struck until the IG DR was (permanently?!) zero.

Lots of little oddities in the game... no one really knows everything about all of them. Of course I get the same impression IRL, every time I read a scientific news report... the latest amazing thing I saw was (further) hacks possible with aerogels... now there's a mmorpg "magical"-type substance if ever I heard of one.

[electricblue]

Other players, mercs and minions are entirely unaffected by you having that Eth.

I think this needs to be cleared.

Do you mean their attacks are not effected from your eth when attacking the same monster, or eth doesn't work against them ?

as far as I know (havent tested) eth works 1/2 effective vs. other players.

[adeyke]

Do you mean their attacks are not effected from your eth when attacking the same monster, or eth doesn't work against them ?

I meant the former. Regardless of how many Eths player A has in his weapon and how often player A hits the enemy, player B won't ever have an easier time hitting the enemy.

as far as I know (havent tested) eth works 1/2 effective vs. other players.

That is correct, AFAIK. I haven't tested it, either, though.

[Crystalion]

Regardless of how many Eths player A has in his weapon and how often player A hits the enemy, player B won't ever have an easier time hitting the enemy.

I'm not sure this is true, as worded.

It is not clear to me that a monster in hit recovery is allowed to block, for example, based on principles as opposed to testing. As soon as you open that can of worms, immediately other thoughts arise: what if the monster is stunned? (twister, shock wave, stun, war cry, mind blast... only stun is relevant, indirectly, re: eths, of course). What about hitting monsters as they are in the middle of being knocked back (i.e. actually in transit)? Et cetra.

Of course, what you no doubt meant was, the Eths themselves don't have a sticky effect on the monster's DR. But your wording does bring up these interesting (to me at least) issues.

It also causes me to wonder, if a monster could Berserk, and die while their DR was 0 (passiveaura or special coded?) would it persist to their revive? Ditto, with more practicality I suppose, with Inner Sight etc. (i.e. might some curses/auras touch the underlying stats of a monster, thinking that they will back out properly when the effect duration ceases, but instead death of the monster causes side-effects from unclean termination?)

Since I saw some evidence months ago that Set bonus states are not handled entirely properly, and recent reports claim the Anya resist bonus bug still exists, these kinds of oddities would not surprise me. (for that matter I went through an act change waypoint today wearing full trangs, going in as ghoul lord and coming out as necro)

[Caaroid]

I went through an act change waypoint today wearing full trangs, going in as ghoul lord and coming out as necro

I always thought that the "revert to human form" on act change is a PITA. I believe what you have here is the same issue. I THINK, from observing my necro, that what actually happens is wearing Trang causes them to "cast" the "morph to ghoul lord" "spell" on them (you can see the casting animation go off regularly even standing still). So what happens on act change is, that you revert to human form, and stay that way until the next "transform" casting.

Then again, this is only from observing the game.

[Crystalion]

I always thought that the "revert to human form" on act change is a PITA.

Yes, since, iirc, Druids suffer the same problem with wereform, I should not have implied this is a set bonus problem (I meant merely to illustrate that oddities happen to me all the time).

I suppose this probably means that one can lift the Delirium "curse" from yourself or hireling simply by going to town and taking a waypoint to another act?

[Obi2Kenobi]

So, this could be seen as an advantage. You get the +s of a full Trang's set, and none of the -s of the Vampire (unmodifiable run/walk speed [IIRC], slower cast rate, ugly)

[Caaroid]

You get the +s of a full Trang's set, and none of the -s of the Vampire (unmodifiable run/walk speed [IIRC], slower cast rate, ugly)

Run/walk speed is actually faster than a non-trang necro running, so that's a plus. Cast rate is a problem, but ugliness is not (necros are generally ugly :)). And you cannot abuse this, since the "pulse" to change shape come every few seconds.

[Obi2Kenobi]

Yes, but I meant that there was no chance of improvment. So if you manage to get enough FRW items, then it could be a disadvantage (and as I am a run/walk freak... [Sander's boots, Stealth armor, ect.])

Well, if you get pulsed back in a few seconds, how is it a pain?

[lemekim]

Trang-Oul form is affected by FRW... Necromancer in Trang-Oul form will always be faster then a Necromancer in non-Trang-Oul form with the same amount of runwalk from items. A more interesting aspect is that Run speed and Walk speed for the Vampire form is the same, so you can walk all the time (and take advantage of defense and blocking).

A less known fact is that Blocking and Hit Recovery animation speeds are the same and both affected by FHR items. This can be viewed as benefit or disadvantage.

[Obi2Kenobi]

Really? I must just be disremembering my misinterpretation of a rather hazy factoid thingy. :) I was aware of the whole vampire walks and runs at a speed of 9 Y/S, while the necro goes at 4/6, respectively. Correct? (This would mean a vamp goes as fast as a charging paladin...)

[lemekim]

Really? I must just be disremembering my misinterpretation of a rather hazy factoid thingy. :) I was aware of the whole vampire walks and runs at a speed of 9 Y/S, while the necro goes at 4/6, respectively. Correct? (This would mean a vamp goes as fast as a charging paladin...)

Yes, that is correct, but 9 Y/s is his base run/walk speed, so just like any other character, it's affected by FRW. If you have some calculator handy, it might be possible to calculate just how fast he can really go. I am not sure what speed charge is now, since it's affected by run/walk and other stuff in 1.1. It can definately get faster then it was in 1.09 (and thus more then 9 Y/s)