Melee Zon...

[ima_nerd]

Ok, I'm bored of your typical everyday chars. I have a werewolf druid, a meteor/orb sorc, and a trap azn. I want something different next.

So...what about a melee zon. Rely on passive/magic skills only. I figured by getting dodge/avoid/evade up with high dexterity and a good shield, I'd be extremely hard to hit. Not only that, but my valk would be a bloody tank if I focused on those skills only.

Am I insane? Will this work, or is it actually common and effective, and I've just never seen it?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: BTW...when I say melee I mean any one-handed, melee only weapon (preferably a sword).

Edit: I really need to put everything I want all at once. :P But...while I'm here, any thoughts on valks? I've heard crap about resummoning until you get what's good. What's "good?"

[ShadowHM]

Hi

You will find quite a lot of information in this thread:

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...showtopic=34615

I have an Amazon with a two handed sword (who was developed in v1.09) who is having a very tough time of it now.

However, Dagger wielding Amazons do remarkably well now.

Have fun.

[LavCat]

Thanks for the link, Shadow, I had missed the thread. For my third ladder character I have a level 45 amazon with, so far, points only in the passive and magic tree.

She tries various odd things from time to time, but for most of her career she has been using a now upgraded Diggler. Valkyrie is up to 21, and her merc is act 2 might.

At levels 68 and 69 respectively she has Demon Arch and Thunderstroke in store, but in the meanwhile she seems satrisfied with Diggler. However I am saving any fanged knives with sockets. Fury would be nice, and I am pretty sure you can make it in a fanged knife. Resists are her current problem, and she needs a shield upgrade more than a new weapon.

By the way, I seem to recall you mentioning that you were having a tough time with maggots many months ago, or is this a different amazon?


Edit: Spelling.

[ShadowHM]

By the way, I seem to recall you mentioning that you were having a tough time with maggots many months ago, or is this a different amazon?

Maggots !

Yes....she had trouble with maggots. :) They spawned faster than she could kill them.

I confess to mainly ignoring her since v1.10 came along though. If I was to go back to her, though, I would re-equip her as a Daggerzon and kick some butt. I would, if re-building her, place more points in Inner Sight than I did too.

[ima_nerd]

Unfortunately, I couldn't go through your link because I'm at school now. :( But...you say you're having trouble? I really don't care if mine makes it to Hell, but being able to do solo NM would be really nice (I would like to have her as my PA char if my current azn ends up sucking). And, would focusing entirely on critstrike/dodge/avoid/evade/decoy make my valk insanely awesome? I plan on getting an a3 cold merc, as I wont need anything to tank for me. Or...if I got to hell a1, would the mercs there be worth buying? I've never really used mercs, mine always die or are useless and not worth reviving when they do. But...I should get back to work...power point due tomorrow, thanks for the input.

[Bob the Beholder]

I did it somewhat, during the 1.10 beta patch. Only went through normal, but it worked alright there. If you can get some decent items it'd be fine, I think, but I didn't have any. I eventually quit most of the way through act V, because even though my shield, passive block skills, and defense were near impenetrable, I was too easily block-locked, and the damage output was miniscule.

Before that, however, was a blast. I found a nice maul in act III, and used that until the second act V quest. Running through hell slamming stuff with a big hammer was friggin' awesome.

[ima_nerd]

Haha, hammers are fun. I have some decent equiptment I could use. I have a shaftstop, a lidless shield, a vampiric gaze (I think that's what it's called. It's a green skull helm.) I don't have a decent weapon though, I guess I'll just MF for hours on end to find something. I'll just leech until I can use that stuff maybe. Any thoughts on mercs anyone?

[Bob the Beholder]

Yeah, I think some of that equipment would help. I know I really could have kept going, and I didn't have anything that you couldn't buy from a merchant. My ability to find unique/set items is almost non-existent. :)

[Cryptic]

I have a rough/test Daggerzon on USWest, she’s OK. Combat is slow, measured, and almost meditative. Applicants, experience with classic enemy-stringing tactics is mandatory for this position.
:P

High Dodge, mid-level Avoid; Evade seemed pointless. 1 and +skills into Inner Sight, Slow Missiles and Decoy, working on boosting Penetrate, Valkyrie and Critical Strike. All other skills seemed pointless or were just prerequisites.

IAS, fast run, cannot be frozen, and a freezing attack were necessities for me. Amplify Damage, Faster Hit Recovery, Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike, etc. are helpful.

Mercenary is Act II Might.

Gear (far from optimal):

Helm: Tal Rasha’s. Sometimes a nice circle with faster run and such.
Armor: Skin of the Vipermagi or Duriel’s Shell, depending on my mood.
Amulet: + Skills prismatic.
Rings: Dwarf Star, Raven Frost.
Gloves: Laying of Hands.
Belt: String of Ears.
Weapon: A wimpy little IAS Heart Carver. A pathetic frosty-poisony thing on the switch. Looking to trade for a Fleshripper; she has no use for most of what she finds.
Shield: Ancient’s Pledge for now; resists are a problem.
Boots: Goblin Toe; looking for Gore Riders. Thinking about going back to Infernostride, but it depends on where I favor hunting.

Play isn’t too bad in most places. Flesh spawners, maggots, frenzytaurs, bumbles and minions of destruction = horrible, horrible death.
:ph34r:

[Obi2Kenobi]

To clarify on the block speed, any Amazon with a non-thrusting weapon (javelin/dagger) has a base block speed of 17(!) frames, IIRC.

[ima_nerd]

Ok, now that I'm home, I looked at that link. Thanks tons! That helps a lot, I never really thought of using a dagger for some reason...although I think it's pretty hard to find a decent one, more Friday nights spent MFing ;) I still think a a3 cold merc is my best bet for the cold helping with crowd control. My valk and decoy will be all I need probably, but cold would be a nice thing to have. Hopefully I'll just be able to ride behind my valk until I get some decent equiptment. And, I'm a newb at DiabloII (only been playin about 8 months. I also took about a 3 month WC3 break in the middle) so "...base block speed of 17(!) frames, IIRC." means NOTHING to me, please explain.

[Bob the Beholder]

That's over a full half-second to block one attack, which is much too slow. If, that is, I'm getting this right.

Diablo II runs at 24 frames per second, and it takes the Amazon seventeen of those frames to block. Judging by the statement, I'd guess that seventeen frames is much slower than other characters (It certainly sounds like quite a bit to me), but I don't know how fast the other characters block.

No doubt someone around here does, though. Many of the members here have proven themselves to be the peak of Diablo II skill and knowledge.

[adeyke]

Diablo II runs at 24 frames per second

25.

Judging by the statement, I'd guess that seventeen frames is much slower than other characters (It certainly sounds like quite a bit to me), but I don't know how fast the other characters block.

Very, very much slower. By comparison, Paladins without holy shield, assassins and amazons with thrusting weapons all block at 5 frames base. Paladins with holy shield block at 2 frames.

These values are all without FBR equipment.

More detailed information.

[Bob the Beholder]

Holy crap, that is a lot slower.

Thanks for the correction, by the way.

[ima_nerd]

Hmm. I think I will definitly go with a daggerzon now. It's going to be a while until my azn is done (only clvl 13). But once she's done (clvl 80 or so) I'll start. Thanks for the help, more input would be appreciated.

[D2Player69]

Adyeke,

That link to Tommie's page was very useful. But I am now completely confused, as the data there are completely different than the data I had been using from Diabloii.net. I can't seem to find it on their pages right now, but they had a FHR table and the numbers are totally off; as an example, the Diabloii.net table has Paladin hit recovery at 4 frames with 0 FHR, 3 frames at 32 FHR, and 2 frames at 152 FHR whereas Tommie's table not only breaks down the Paladin into two different weapon types but the numbers match with the Diabloii.net table for neither weapon type.

Shoot, because I've been fine-tuning my characters with that Diabloii.net table for more than two years now. If it's wrong, and all my characters aren't at the needed breakpoints, I'd like to know.

Also, does Tommie or someone else have a table showing Fast Cast Rate breakpoints for all character types?

Thanks,
John H

[Obi2Kenobi]

I'd trust Tommi's site more than Diabloii.net.

[Life]

I guess this kinda resurects this thread but I'm in the process of building a daggerzon hybrid with much help from Sir_die_alot. Who supplied the Kira's and ghostflame dagger.

She is 78 now and is in act2 hell now. I keep thinking that I'll get overwhelmed at any moment while playing her. However I'm finding that she is actually doing rather well as a tank. The Valk although often lagging behind or stabbing at things off in a corner is amazingly durable in any of its various casted permutations. The valk is maxed.

I've also maxed penetrate. Presently leveling up decoy a bit so that she can also stand around and take punishment so that the rest of us don't have to.

Equipment is:

Kira's hat mostly for the resists and cannot be frozen. *(don't have a raven yet)
ghostflame dagger I socketed it with a 33% ed jewel so its not too bad damagewise. (gets ready for inevitable blast... why'd you do that?)
Smoke Kraken shell with 970 def.
Sigon's gloves and boots
Thundergod's belt
Storm sheild
Lacerator and Timat's sheild on weapon switch
Crafted amazon +1 amy with lots of resist mods
6% life leach ring with resists
5% manald heal unique ring

Skills:
Maxed Valk
Maxed penetrate
Critical strike is level 16 I think
Inner sight up to 14 for -350% def (not sure if I will take this higher or not)
Slow missles 1
decoy is 7
Dodge 12
Avoid 6 (I think doing is away from my home comp)
Evade 4
Pierce 1

As you can see nothing really amazing about anything goin on here. I just wanted to make note of the durability of this build and upfront and poking little pointy things up monsters noses (do they have noses?) fun that comes with it.

Any thoughts on what might continue to improve this girl would be appreciated too. I keep looking at the fleshripper unique dagger and wondering if it would be better or not. I guess some crushing blow would be nice as well.

Basic approach to most monsters is to cast decoy fire a few axes from lacerator to engage the amp and run in and poke away. Things actually die rather fast overall especially while playing solo.

Life

[Sir_Die_alot]

Man February I didn't realize how long you had been planning this girl. :)