I forget, does enchant trigger twice on...

[GenericKen]

I vaugely remember reading something about it, but didn't pay much attention. Will the extra fire damage go onto the explosion as well as the hit?

Does this mean that a sorc w/ a kuko would be quad-dipping into her enchant damage?

[adeyke]

IIRC:

The base damage of exploding arrow's explosion is calculated based on the slvl of exploding and any sources of +% fire skill damage (e.g. fire mastery, Facets).

The base fire damage of the arrow itself is the sum of all fire damage items, holy fire and enchant (which was itself modified by +% fire skill damage when cast).

This fire damage on the arrow is copied over to the explosion.

Then, +% fire skill damage comes into effect again and affects your arrow, but not the explosion.

Example:
You have a 100 fire damage charm and a 100 fire damage exploding arrow. You can cast 100 fire damage enchant and have +100% fire skill damage.

The base explosion damage is 100 + 100% = 200.

The base fire damage on your arrow is 100 + (100 + 100%) = 300.

Then the arrow damage gets copied to the explosion, so that's 500 now.

Then the damage on the arrow is affected by the +% fire skill damage, so it's 600.

[Crystalion]

Then, +% fire skill damage comes into effect again and affects your arrow, but not the explosion.

I don't recall any support for this from my iirc of my past testing or Ruvanal's comments in various posts.

In other words, I've been operating under the assumption that, in v1.10, the +% damage elem does not operate for elemental adders on (physical) ranged missiles.

I think the issue bears some testing. (e.g. aside from the case you're replying to, what about zon Lightning Bolt with +% damage lightning?)

p.s. I'm not playing much the last few weeks--indeed I've started playing SpellForce (which is interesting so far)--so I'm in "lurk" mode here at LL at present (so I am not likely to test much myself and may take days to notice any posts that "summon" my attention).

[Taem]

Humm, after reading the Enchantress Guide hosted on this site, it says the double enchant bonus is applied to Melee damage only and that is what is displayed on the LCS (character screen). For missile damage, its half whats displayed on the LCS.

[adeyke]

Hmmm... You're right.

A bowazon with low +cold damage and very much +% cold skill damage could barely scratch monsters that were vulnerable to only cold. A bowazon with a lot of +cold damage and no +% cold skill damage could slaughter monsters even if the listed damage was much lower.

So it's another LCS issue <_<. +% skill damage with a physical ranged attack looks like it's helping, but it isn't really.

This does need further testing.

[MongoJerry]

Humm, after reading the Enchantress Guide hosted on this site, it says the double enchant bonus is applied to Melee damage only and that is what is displayed on the LCS (character screen).&nbsp; For missile damage, its half whats displayed on the LCS.

Careful with how you're reading the guide. It's a double application of Fire Mastery -- not double damage. In melee, in effect, you get Fire Mastery applied twice to your attack:

(Enchant base damage) * (Warmth synergy) * (Fire Mastery at time of enchanting) * (Fire Mastery at time of striking)

Whereas with ranged weapons, the formula is simply:

(Enchant base damage) * (Warmth synergy) * (Fire Mastery at time of enchanting)

So, if you're fighting melee and your Fire Mastery at the time of striking is +300%, then you'll do four times more fire damage than if you were fighting ranged.

However, as mentioned in the guide, you can attack using bows and crossbows with exploding arrows and end up hitting the same monster multiple times: once with the arrow, once with the explosion, and if you are using a weapon that pierces, possible explosions off monsters and walls behind the monster. Plus, the explosion is an "area of effect" skill, so you can end up hitting multiple monsters with the same shot. Thus, the damage dealt per time for meleeing (assuming a very fast weapon or a 'Passion' blade that allows you to Zeal) and ranged with piercing exploding bows are comparable.

I've played both kinds of enchantresses in several equipment configurations (and wrote the Enchantress Guide), and when people new to the enchantress ask me whether they should fight ranged or melee, my usual recommendation is that they should start out with a ranged enchantress. I think it's easier to pick up and feel successful with it. Plus, it's less dangerous than being a melee sorceresses, so you can be successful without a lot of fancy equipment (once you get a demon machine, you're set). However, once you're familiar with the enchantress and have collected some good equipment, I highly recommend creating a melee enchantress. They're a lot of fun.

[Taem]

Careful with how you're reading the guide.

My bad! I read it correctly, but wrote it wrong (you know, when you know what your trying to say, but it comes out all wrong and the other person just stares at you blankly?).

I can't wait to get a Demon Machine for my Enchantress now, however it seems to me that a Kuku does more damage:

KuKu
(25-28) To (72-81)
+150-180% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Fires Explosive Arrows Or Bolts [Level 7] (31-36 fire damage)
Piercing Attack (50)
Adds 40-180 Fire Damage

Demon Machine
(31-137)
+123% Enhanced Damage
+66 To Maximum Damage
Fires Explosive Arrows Or Bolts [Level 6] (27-31 fire damage)
+632 To Attack Rating
Piercing Attack (66)
+321 Defense
+36 To Mana

That seems like a LOT of fire damage to enhance with Masteries!

EDIT - HAHA, I had entered Amazon as the Class type, not Sorceress! Never mind! You need 65 IAS just to match the Demon Machine. Yah, the Demon Machine is better!

My Orignal Quote:

Also, with just 20 IAS (a shael, a pair of gloves, etc.), you shoot as fast as the maximum speed on the Demon Machine.&nbsp; I think realistically you could get up to 63 IAS for the 9 FPS break-point, and if you were a little more dedicated, to 105 IAS for the 8 FPS break-point.&nbsp; The extra pierce is nice on the crossbow, however because there are less bolts in a pack than arrows, you may find yourself carrying 3 packs of bolts or more, restricting your inventory space (at least for me).&nbsp; Both seem like good bows, so I couldn't really say one is better than the other; both have their strengths and weaknesses.

[MongoJerry]

EDIT - HAHA, I had entered Amazon as the Class type, not Sorceress!&nbsp; Never mind!&nbsp; You need 65 IAS just to match the Demon Machine.&nbsp; Yah, the Demon Machine is better!

It's a very common mistake. Many people are so used to thinking that crossbows stick in comparison to bows, because they're used to playing Amazons. The other benefits are that the Demon Machine does more physical damage, has a huge attack rating bonus (which gets further multiplied by Enchant's bonus -- my ar doubles with the Demon Machine), and has a higher pierce rate (66% vs 50%). The higher pierce rate is interesting, because you can wear a Razortail (+33% pierce) with it and get a 99% pierce rate. Yum!

Many other people also get excited by Kuko's bonus fire damage, but once you've maxed out Enchant, Warmth, and Fire Mastery, monsters vulnerable to fire are the least of your worries. The higher physical damage on the Demon Machine becomes much more helpful than the fire damage boost on the Kuko at that point.