How much does RAM effect MMORPGs?

[WarLocke]

For those who are playing (or have played) MMORPGs, what kind of effect does RAM (or lack thereof) have on these types of game?

I've been spending time lately in one, and I've found that I'm not getting very good frames per second. It seems kind of odd, since I just bought a 128mb GeForceFX 5200 around Christmas (not the best card, but better than the 64mb GeForce2 MX/MX400 PCI I had), and I can run KotOR, Morrowind, and HALO (probably the most graphics-intensive games I own) decently enough.

I've posted about this on the boards for the MMORPG in question, and the response I got was to upgrade my RAM. I have a single 256mb stick of DDRAM right now; how much would adding another stick help me? I had been operating under the assumption that my problem was with the graphical rendering - ie, that my (1ghz) processor and vidcard couldn't draw everything that's happening onscreen as fast as it needs to - RAM wouldn't help with that, would it?

Although, I guess being an MMORPG my computer could be chugging trying to load character object data in and out of the RAM and having to use 'real memory' (ie, the HD) and maybe that's causing the chugging. I really don't know.

And also, if it turns out that more RAM would help, would I need to get another stick of the same size, or could I get a 512mb stick for a total of 768mb?

EDIT: Also, if the Wrathraven I 'saw' broadcasting Saturday night is our Wrath, hey bud! B)

[bschultz]

oh wow... If I were you I would get at LEAST another 256. But I have 512 megs of ram and I have been thinking about getting another 512 megs.

but yeah more ram helps faster everything helps ;) I've been playing the lineage 2 beta and man the game runs on the unreal 2 engine and I own a gf4 4400 and I have a p4 2.5 ghz proc and I have 512 megs of ram. I'm thinking I need more ram because my card is only a year old so I should be able to get at least another year out of it before I upgrade again.

also warlocke you wouldnt think it but your processor is also a bottleneck. Its been proven that having a 1 ghz processor will not allow your graphics card to render at its full potential. but for now just get another 512 megs and reap the rewards :) you will notice a HUGE difference.

[WarLocke]

also warlocke you wouldnt think it but your processor is also a bottleneck. Its been proven that having a 1 ghz processor will not allow your graphics card to render at its full potential.

Yeah, I've been wanting to build/buy a whole new system for awhile now, but the cashflow just hasn't been up for it. Newer games are listing 1ghz as the minimum to run them, so I don't think I'll be able to coast by on it for much longer. Plus, going to a 3ghz (or whatever) would be like going from a Volkswagen to a Dodge Viper for me. :D

So I can do 256mb + 512mb = 768mb? The local guy around here said that I would need matched pairs of memory (256 + 256, or 512 + 512), but I'm starting to think he's just trying to scam me.

Also, Lineage II look pretty darn pretty. B) Too bad I have a "One MMORPG" rule, and the one I'm playing is it! :lol:

[Artega]

I would assume that RAM has affects performance in an MMORPG a great deal. I cannot run any MMORPGs, but common knowledge would lend itself to the conclusion that more RAM is better.

Certainly, you need to get at least 512MB, especially with more graphics-intensive games around the corner, like Half-Life 2 and DooM III.

I am not certain if you can combine two different sizes. If you can spare the cash, I would spring for twin 512MB sticks, but it is up to you. You can get a 512MB stick of Mushkin from NewEgg for about $80. Try hunting around and see if you cannot find something that addresses said issue.

[yangman]

The local guy around here said that I would need matched pairs of memory (256 + 256, or 512 + 512), but I'm starting to think he's just trying to scam me.

Either the guy does not know what he is talking about or have not kept up with RAM development for the last decade.

Only EDO -- which became obsolete as system RAM years ago -- and RD RAM are the two more common RAM types in recent times to require pair-matching.

Since you currently have a single stick of RAM, the have-to-install-in-pairs restriction obviously does not apply. ;)

[WarLocke]

Since you currently have a single stick of RAM, the have-to-install-in-pairs restriction obviously does not apply.

Actually, what he was telling me was that I could have a 256mb stick, or 256mb+256mb, or 512mb+512mb, but 256mb+512mb wouldn't work. I kinda went 'huh?' at that, but I don't know for certain if he was bulling me or not.

[yangman]

PCWorld says:

No problem for SDRAM (PC100 and PC133) and DDR RAM [to mix different capacity RAM modules]. You can fill your PC's memory slots with virtually any combination of different-capacity modules as long as they're the same type. In fact, mixing different-capacity modules is the best way to upgrade without removing the old RAM from your PC.

:)

[NiteFox]

Only EDO -- which became obsolete as system RAM years ago -- and RD RAM are the two more common RAM types in recent times to require pair-matching.

Yup. And my comp uses EDO.

My comp has a pretty weird combination. 32+32 and 8+8. 80MB of RAM :P

[yangman]

Yup.  And my comp uses EDO.

My comp has a pretty weird combination.  32+32 and 8+8.  80MB of RAM :P

Hehe, that's what I had on my old computer.

Well, before I took out a 8MB stick to put into my laser printer...

The machine is currently sitting under the table taking up leg space. I was fulling around with Linux on it, but once I had it running, I couldn't find anything else to do with it.

[Kevin]

It has nothing to do with EDO. It had to do with the packaging. 72 pin SIMMS on a wider (32 bit) bus needed to be added in pairs. But you could get EDO, FPM and other types of modules on a 72 pin SIMM package. In a 486 system (16 bit bus) you could add those SIMMs singly. DIMM's only need to be added singly in most cases. Of course if you are using dual channels, then you need matched pairs again, and with 2 512MB sticks on a dual channel board you only have 512MB of memory, but you have a lot faster access to it.

But again, it isn't EDO (Extended Data Out) that was the problem it was the SIMM packing and they only required pair matching in certain usage situations.

There are other issues with older boards where you couldn't use dual sided modules and having different speeds would cause issues as well. But most boards that will run a 1GHz processor don't have these limitations.


As to the question. 256MB of RAM is piddly. 512 is my minimum level for doing much of anything on a modern system, read running WinXP (D2 will see a performance increase going from 256 to 512 as well, just an FYI), and 1GB is starting to creep down to the entry level line. I hate working on 256MB systems, way too much disk swapping for me.

Just some NITs really.

Out of curiosity, what MMORPG is it?

[WarLocke]

Out of curiosity, what MMORPG is it?

... I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. B)

Or something, anyway. :lol:

[Yrrek]

for this hijack, but I have a hard drive conundrum. I just installed a new 80gig Western Digital drive on my computer that currently has a 12.6gig WD drive. I want to make both drives bootable, the 12.6 staying with Windows 98SE and the 80 I want to install Red Hat 9.0. I looked at the manual, it gave the jumper options for either the drive to be slave or master. I tried both and Linux will not install on either one, the only drive is shows in the installation wizard is my 12.6gig. I don't want to transfer everything from my old drive to the 80gig because I am waiting on the funding to purchase the rest of my computer parts, and I just need to learn Red Hat by Wednesday for a skills exam. :D I have been working on it in school, since this afternoon, but I am not sure on everything that I need to know. Thanks for any help. Oh yes, I tried to find a free copy of Partition Magic to resize the single partition on my 12.6 to dual boot, but was unable, if someone would be able to help me out, I would be much appreciated!

[bschultz]

I'm guessing city of heros.

[WarLocke]

I'm guessing city of heros.

Your IP has been traced. The Men In Black are on their way. I advise you to leave. Immediately. :o

[shavenlunatic]

Actually, what he was telling me was that I could have a 256mb stick, or 256mb+256mb, or 512mb+512mb, but 256mb+512mb wouldn't work.  I kinda went 'huh?' at that, but I don't know for certain if he was bulling me or not.

hes an idiot, tell his boss he should be fired from the store (or wherever you were going to buy it from).

I gurrently have 768MB of RAM in my PC.. and take my work for it that i dont have any 384MB sticks of RAM in there.. lol :D

[Usufruct]

What's really cool is having 2 gigs of ram and disabling the page file in windows :D It complains a bit, but it's awesome.

[WarLocke]

hes an idiot, tell his boss he should be fired from the store

Uh... He runs the store, lol. :blink:

He's also the only place I can get parts locally (besides the shifty OEM woman...).

What's really cool is having 2 gigs of ram and disabling the page file in windows

I hate you soooo much right now. :o

[Roland]

VGA Charts Part III

I just bought a 128mb GeForceFX 5200 around Christmas

Ugh. I pity you. My old (current) GeForce4 Ti-4200 (the OLD 64MB version; as in, 4x AGP, NOT 8x) beats the living snot out of your card, and it was the lowest of the low of a PREVIOUS generation of cards. To get ANY better, you HAVE to get a 5700 or 5700 Ultra, and even then, it's a FEW (read: half a dozen) FPS better. TOTALLY not worth the money. To get a marginal increase that IS worth the monetary investment, you have to go for at LEAST a 5900 XT (a budget / toned down version of the 5900, which is only slightly less powerful, all-in-all). 5950 Ultra is the ultra-elite card for that generation, with the 5900 being a hair behind (literally).

Next time, do your homework. You'll save yourself loads of money and aggravation. ;) Or, just ask me. :D I periodically review several hardware areas (most notably Motherboards, RAM, and Video Cards) for improvements, and perform personal cost / benefit ratio, etc. evaluations. And by personal, I mean for my own personal use. It's a hobby, not a profession. :)

As to the rest of your post:
First of all, 1 GHz is slow. Beyond slow. Snails-pace. Particularly for any recent, 3D-oriented games. Doubly so for MMOs (of any sort), because they have a LOT of stuff onscreen, both big and small. Secondly, 256 MB of RAM is pitifully small. I'd barely run my OS with that little RAM. Any playing of recent games would dictate at LEAST 512MB, and preferably a Gig if you want to stay on the high end.

As to upgrading your RAM, you'll want to make sure that whatever RAM you choose is the same SPEED (size does not matter, although recent studies show that a single large stick tends to have slightly better performance than 2 smaller sticks equating to the same amount of RAM). Otherwise, you'll have to buy entirely new RAM. Secondly, it may be wise to research just how fast RAM speeds your motherboard can support, and buy the highest it will take. RAM price differences between speeds are so minimal (excluding the newest, highest speeds) that it's often much more cost efficient to buy higher than you have now. And, it will certainly increase your performance.

Something to consider: 512MB of RAM is about the bare minimum you want to be running the latest games with, particularly an MMO. I have a 1.6GHz, with a graphics card that beats out yours (as noted above), and 512MB of 3200 RAM, and my comp chugs aplenty during Planetside, even with the lowest detail settings (only applicable during intense battles, unfortunately, where there is MASSIVE amounts of rendering; while not in heavy conditions, I can max out the settings and not feel a hitch). 1 Gig is usually the recommended level for intense gaming, such as MMOs, and with RAM prices and availability, that's not an unreachable goal for many. You can, of course, always overclock your video card. This is a very time-consuming process, and WILL lead to a lot of CTRL+ALT+DEL's and hard resets, but the benefits can be worth it, provided you are smart and safe about it. Make sure your computer has enough cooling to handle the increased heat, make sure your vid card can handle the increased heat via cooling (adding heat sinks, getting a better fan, etc.), and make sure your power supply can handle the added strain, as you could very easily blow your PSU if it's not powerful enough (as mine did, when I got new POWERED 5.1 speakers).

Just for reference (from my own personal notes, for near-future upgrades):

Motherboard:
------------
MSI I865PE Neo2-PFS
Model # MS6728-110
Item # N82E168131304507
$80.00

Processor:
----------
Intel Pentium 4 2.8C GHz 800 MHz FSB w/ Hyper-Threading (Retail)
Model # BX80532PG2800/D
Item # N82E16819116161
$181.00

MSI NVIDIA GeForce FX5900XT
Model # FX5900XT-VTD128
Item # N82E16814127119
$191.00

Total Costs: $452

My entire notes (haven't done RAM research yet, and since I just replaced my PSU, I have no need to put that down, either; and it may not even be applicable to you):

Motherboard:
------------
MSI I865PE Neo2-PFS
Model # MS6728-110
Item # N82E168131304507
$80.00

MSI I875P Neo-FIS2R
Model # 875P NEO-FIS2R
Item # N82E16813130414
$179.00

Gigabyte GA-8KNXP (Revision 2.0)
Model # GA-8KNXP REV 2.0
Item # N82E16813128185
$197.99

Processor:
----------
Intel Pentium 4 2.8C GHz 800 MHz FSB w/ Hyper-Threading (Retail)
Model # BX80532PG2800/D
Item # N82E16819116161
$181.00

Video Card:
-----------
MSI NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti-4600-8x
Model # TI-TD8X
Item # N82E16814127077
$140.00

MSI NVIDIA GeForce FX5900XT
Model # FX5900XT-VTD128
Item # N82E16814127119
$191.00

Gainward NVIDIA GeForce 5900XT 128 Golden Sample
Model # ULTRA/1100XT,GS
Item # N82E16814128185
$199.99

Gainward NVIDIA GeForce FX5900XT 256 Golden Sample
Model # ULTRA/1300XT GS
Item # N82E16814128184
$278.00

MSI NVIDIA GeForce FX5950 Ultra
Model # FX5950U-VTD256
Item # N82E16814127108
$409.99

Gainward NVIDIA GeForce FX5950 Ultra Golden Sample
Model # VGFX5950UG
Item # N82E16814128183
$415.00

Sound Card:
-----------
Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS
Model # 70SB035000000
Item # N82E16829102162
$88.00

Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro
Model # 70SB036000000
Item # N82E16829102164
$209.00

Monitor:
--------
ViewSonic G90FB 19" Flat Screen CRT
Model # G90FB
Item # N82E16824116282
$219.00

Speakers:
---------
Creative Labs Inspire 5.1 Digital 5500
Model #51MS0000AA001
Item # N82E16836116145
$159.00

Creative Labs MegaWorks THX 5.1 550
Model # 51000000AA277
Item # N82E16836116118
$206.00

Creative Labs GigaWorks 5.1 5700
Model # 51MF7011AA000
Item # N82E16836116143
$330.00

Creative Labs Inspire T7700 7.1
Model # 51MF7005AA002
Item # N82E16836116140
$115.00

Creative Labs GigaWorks S750 7.1
Model # 51MF7010AA000
Item # N82E16836116142
$441.00

At any rate, good luck with your gaming, and I hope this information proves useful! As I said, if you ever have a hardware question, feel free to drop me an e-mail. I usually update my notes every 6 months, in order to stay reasonably current with new technology.

[Roland]

My God man, you truly ARE behind the times!

NewEgg.com

BTW - all prices quoted in my notes further down on the page are directly from NewEgg, as of within the last week. They may fluctuate by a few dollars, but typically they'll only go DOWN. And if you're wary of buying from an online retailer, take my word for it (as a VERY satisfied customer): they ROCK.

Also:
ResellerRatings.com

Use it ANYTIME you want to buy computer hardware / software online. Find out the facts BEFORE you buy.

And for all your hardware researching needs:
Tom's Hardware Guide

Hope this will be of help to you (and others)!

[Roland]

Make sure you plugged the cable in correctly. I had this problem recently after replacing a PSU and sound card (old PSU blew up; had to buy a new one post-haste in a pinch). And to think I'm a veteran PC Tech. :P Also, make sure the jumpers on your OLD HD are NOT set to "Master only". The usual best setting is "CS", as in "Cable Select". This lets the CABLE, not the JUMPER (jumpers are old, anyway; I imagine the technology will be obsolete in a few years), decide what goes where. Likewise, make sure the jumpers on your NEW HD are set either to Slave, or CS. And, finally, make sure you're hooking up the HD to your HD cable, and not your CD/DVD-ROM cable. ;) Hey, it can happen.

Drop an update on your progress.