Confirmed: Life on Mars.

[Doc]

Was listening to the radio and there is this lively topic about life on Mars. Earth based life.

As it turns out, our rovers are covered in microbes and such, and, according to this chap in Florida, Mars now has microbial life. Some chatter on if we have violated some Prime Directive.

What does everybody think of this? Is Mars really polluted with Earth based life forms now? Seems plauseable.

[Occhidiangela]

No planet survives "first contact" intact.

It is this thing called "change" that requires "catalysts" which in this case, is the probe in question.

Me, I am all for finding out how long it takes a microbe to evolve into Uma Thurman. There may be some great side benefits . . .

[Drasca]

Headlines: Earth invades Mars!

We, the microbe nation of Earth declare Mars to be her Majesty's turf to play in the muck with. This planet's ours!

[DeeBye]

This is a bit off-topic, but has anyone else read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars / Green Mars / Blue Mars trilogy? Every time I see mention of the exploration of Mars I can't help but think about those books.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Yep, plowed through all three. I frankly prefer John Carter, but then again I find Burroughs to be a more entertaining writer than Robinson. Burroughs used to be paid by the word, Robinson just writes as if he were. :)

--Pete

[--Pete]

Hi,

As it turns out, our rovers are covered in microbes and such

That happens to be a lie. The sterility of spacecraft, especially of probes that are to enter atmospheres and/or land on bodies is a primary concern to all and a high mission priority.

Could something have gone wrong? Considering the NASA we have now that is incapable of doing a 2.54 cm to inches conversion, a flub is possible. But a search on Mars and rover yielded nothing, there is nothing that I could find on any of the news services I subscribe to, and NASA has posted nothing on their website. I, for one, would rather wait for a report from a more credible source than some vague "chap in Florida".

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trolling.

--Pete

[Doc]

Not trolling, just fishing for good conversation.

Guy on the radio is talking about a lot of NASA's new cost cutting measures and how a lot of mistakes are being made now, like the inches conversion bit and the explosion of the shuttle. Did you know that the shuttle crew took photos of the cracks and the damage to the sides of the shuttle and sent them to NASA?

Erm.

Back on track. Clickity Click Clickerdoo I found the guy online after many many many mispellings of his name after hearing it on the radio. Sounds TOTALLY different when spoken. There are other stories online as well. Google them as I do not wish to be rude and flood with a ton of links. NASA is just SLOPPY now. Sterilization methods according to some folks wouldn't even meet tatoo or piercing parlour standards.

I honestly was not trying to be a troll... I just found the radio talk show very very interesting and came here to find like minded curious types that might have imput of their own.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Well, thanks for the link.

After testing whether terrestrial organisms can survive simulated Martian conditions and the procedures used to sterilise spacecraft, he reckons there is a good chance some made it to Mars and might still be living there.

Yeah, right. That's a far cry from "we've contaminated Mars." And considering "He has been granted funding from NASA's planetary protection office to help develop better sterilisation techniques for future missions.", I'm sure he is totally impartial. After all, the best way to get funding from a government agency is to go in and say, "There's absolutely nothing wrong with your procedures, but I'd like you to fund me to develop better ones anyway."

I played that game for fifteen years. And played it badly, because I just couldn't force myself to exaggerate. I've reviewed hundreds of research proposals, and if half of what I'd read was true, judgment day happened last week.

But thanks for the topic :)

--Pete

[Doc]

On the radio, he was singing a different tune then in the article. But that was the closest I could get to what I was listening to. That guy had a lot to say about just how poor NASA has been doing lately. The question being raised on the radio is if we are contaminating our own research efforts to find some sort of life on Mars by actually accidently planting life on Mars. Conditions on Mars would allow certain types of microbes to not only survive, but, thrive.

On the radio, he discused how the fabric for the airbags had problems with mildew and other serious problems NASA had with keeping the operation sterile.

Methinks people in NASA need to start blowing the whistle. Rover problems, shuttle explosions, and what appears to be shoddy workmanship.

It was a good radio program.

[Drasca]

I've reviewed hundreds of research proposals, and if half of what I'd read was true, judgment day happened last week.

So that's how to write a proposal! Always include an apocalypse clause: "the world will end if we don't _insert propsal here_"

[JustAGuy]

So that's how to write a proposal! Always include an apocalypse clause: "the world will end if we don't _insert propsal here_"

Honestly, though, that really is the way to do it. When asking for a new computer at work, you don't just say, "with a Pentium-4 3.2 Ghz with Hyper Threading would be nice to work with, I could compile my programs in seconds!" you'd say, "my current machine can't support the 'new' software. I can't do my work on this! Countless hours of productivity will be lost if I don't upgrade!! I'm going to have to quit!!!"

Something like that. Don't say those things if your company is a bit strapped, otherwise they might give you the boot... "Can't work on this computer eh? We'll find someone who can, AND we'll give 'em a lower salary!"

[JustAGuy]

Methinks people in NASA need to start blowing the whistle. Rover problems, shuttle explosions, and what appears to be shoddy workmanship.

How the hell can they be doing shoddy work, when they have millions to spend on this crap? Even though their budget has been cut considerably, they still have lots of cash. I don't see other space agencies with this kind of 'grip'. They've got the top minds, the top money, and therefore the top equipment - how could they screw up seemingly all the time? I bet the science isn't where it's supposed to be.

As for the microbe stuff: does it really matter if Earth microbes infest Mars? We're just going to go there anyway. The goal is to colonize; it's not like we're going there just to visit. We go, we say, "aww, that's nice. Look at the red sky. That has got to go. Start un-freezing that water, Boys!" And then, a ridiculous amount of effort, money later, and maybe a couple of hundred years later, we've got ourselves a new planet.

[Baajikiil]

This is a bit off-topic, but has anyone else read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars / Green Mars / Blue Mars trilogy? Every time I see mention of the exploration of Mars I can't help but think about those books.

Yes, I did find them interesting, but dragging as well. I generally prefer heroic fantasy though. I did enjoy them enough to finish all three, and I think of them often when terraforming/exploration come up.

[--Pete]

Hi,

The Romans built a lot of neat stuff, the Greeks didn't. But the Greeks were concerned with knowledge while the Romans were just hairy eared engineers. Thus our modern culture is based a lot more on Greek than Roman (and what is Roman is mostly what *they* took from the Greek).

As for the microbe stuff: does it really matter if Earth microbes infest Mars?

If you're trying to answer the question "was there ever any life on Mars" then a contamination from Earth sure does matter. It can mask the traces that might have been there and it can give you false positive. It's a damned sight better not to have that to worry about.

The goal is to colonize

Only if all you care about is real estate -- then ignorance is just fine. But, you know, the people going after knowledge have historically contributed a hell of a lot more than the people going after land. Besides, the terraforming of Mars is by no means a given. By the time (if ever) that we have the technology to do so, we might have the ability to do much more. Some of the possibilities that we will have then might not even be imaginable now, but will arise because people seeking *knowledge* will open new technologies and the possibility of better alternatives.

Oh, and as to NASA's budget: "If you want prime oats, you have to pay the price. If you don't mind if they've been through the horse, you can get them a lot cheaper."

--Pete

[Guest]

"But, you know, the people going after knowledge have historically contributed a hell of a lot more than the people going after land."

That is debatable. Perhaps the researcher get his name in the boof, but often he would never have got to the point of making his/her discovery with out the self people driving progress.

[Doc]

I think as responsible Earthlings that we should have some sort of Prime Directive.

Smart folks debate to much. Give them enough to talk about, and they will talk them selves to death. If we start planting microbes on Mars, and contaminate our efforts, we run the risk of people making all sorts of outrageous claims. Life on Mars began on Earth. Life on Earth began on Mars, look at the asteroid down in Antarctica. How can we prove this now with life from both planets dropping by for tea on a regular basis. Blah blah blah.

Aside from that, there are moral and ethical concerns as well. If there is life on Mars, just look at all the methane they are finding, so we need to be careful that we don't destroy what ever ecosystem Mars may or may not have.

We no longer have the excuse of ignorance. We can see the consequences of our actions on our own world. We shouldn't go screwing up other places as well. We should tread carefully, take time to consider, and be as gentle as possible with our intrusions, if we should even intrude at all.

[--Pete]

Hi,

When you care enough to make some sense.

That is debatable. Perhaps the researcher get his name in the boof, but often he would never have got to the point of making his/her discovery with out the self people driving progress.

I would guess that by "boof" you mean "book". But for the life of me, I can't figure out what "with out the self people" means (although I would guess that "with out" should be "without" which doesn't quite mean the same thing).

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

Unless we develop some significant terraforming technology and methods soon, Mars won't have the climate to grow a decent coffee plant, and so will be just one more place where can't get a decent cup of coffee. EDIT: hey, great thought, it means we will not be assaulted by pictures of Starbucks on Mars. That's a Good Thing™!

So, asks me, what's all this fuss about life on Mars? Until they have hot babes, gold, oil, vanadium, platinum, food, or other useful commodities, what is the point of colonization? Nothing.

Now, exploration of Mars in search of the origin of the universe or even just the solar system, or at least more clues, has its own merits consistent with some of the Space program's aims and objectives.

It aint all about sattelite TV, ya know . . . :)

[Occhidiangela]

From the article:

"They are probably not going to survive in 200 kelvin conditions and in sulphuric acid," says Jeff Kargel of the US Geological Survey, who believes that ponds and marshes of acidic brines are possible or even likely on Mars today.

But, he adds, "Maybe they could. And maybe we've just done a really terrible thing."

Why terrible? If, as I suggested, it could evolve into another Uma Thruman, how is that a terrible thing?

Oh, wait, I did see Kill Bill, but I blame the terribleness of that on Tarantino, not Uma. Girl's gotta find a job, ya know, to avoid being oppressed by the hirsuite and slimy couch casters of Hollywood . . .

[Guest]

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