European Football Championship

[Moldran]

Ummmm, did you actually see the match ? I am sure it was not faked. Such keeper mistakes are not unusual. All in all, the match was a pretty hard fight. A faked match looks different.

[Lord_Olf]

Hail eppie,

I must say that I'm with Moldran on this one: A rigged match should look different, with a lot of the play happening in the midfield, long phases of little or no activity from both teams. The way I saw this match, Denmark had Sweden in a headlock for most of the game, but Sweden used the chances it had.
If I was trying to manipulate such a game, I would do it differently, and the desired result would not happen by a goalie's mistake in the 89th minute of the game. I really don't think that the teams had an agreement before the match, but no one is ever going to be able to prove this one way or another.
Sorry to hear that you think soccer is rotten, but then again, you can't play Diablo all the time, so it gives you something to do in between. And hey, aren't the best moments of soccer those when you sit around the TV with your friend, have a few Heinekens (or whatever your favourite poison is) under your belt and then start to rant about that dumd referee, that shot someone really must have put into the goal and how your team is just not fighting hard enough etc.? It's part of the game for me...
On the other hand, I think you're right in that some of the rules aren't that clear and over-complicated. I, for one, could do with relegation matches or at least a clearer form of how they handle teams with equal points. But hey, if it was all to easy, those manicured airheads, uhm, sorry, highly qualified commentators might lose their jobs :-)

Take care,

Lord_Olf

[Kylearan]

Hi,

charging 20 bucks for one game is highway robbery, expecially when you can probably put up a satellite dish and watch it for free (granted, maybe with a foreign language commentary, but you can always turn down the sound).

I doubt that there are satellites above the US that broadcast our TV channels, so that's probably not an option.
And regarding the price, I'm just asking myself how expensive it is really for us to watch the championships "for free". The rights to broadcast them in our public channels have been quite expensive (how much exactly? Don't know) and have been paid by us indirectly with the GEZ tax already (well, at least by those who still are honest enough to pay it :P ).

But having seen the game [Sweden vs Denmark], I daresay that, even if the outcome was the mysterious 2:2, it sure did not look like Denmark and Sweden had made some kind of deal. It was a good game to watch, and didn't "smell".

While I agree that there most probably hadn't been any kind of "deal" between the two, the weak parade from the goalkeeper that led to the late 2:2 looked a bit strange... :unsure:

-Kylearan

[Lord_Olf]

Hail Kylearan,

the 2:2 may have looked strange, but...

If I would agree with the other team to have a "deal", I wouldn't say "attack in the 89th, our goalie will make a mistake". Sure, it would be the most elegant way to do it, but I really don't think so.

On the other hand: Italy did not look to me to be determined to win with at least three goals difference, which would have put them, IIRC, into the finals. If I know I have to win by a fair margin, then I may decide to field three attackers, because if I don't win by a fair margin, it does not matter if I lose by five goals.

There'll always be speculation, but if I did not do everything in my power, I would decide to keep my mouth shut to prevent myself from looking like a bad loser. YMMV.

As for the TV channels: I'm not sure about that, but 20$ for just one game is pretty steep in my opinion. On the other hand, I have to admit that I don't know crap about which satelllite channels are accesible in the USA and which are not.

Take care,

Lord_Olf

[Fragbait]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Germany out?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Seriously though, 'twas not a bad game. I liked each goal pretty much, especially the volley shot of Ballack and the dream-freekick of the Czechs.
Is it true what I've heard that Tante Käthe resigned from his position? This can't be true.
I mean - there's only one RUDI VÖÖÖLLER... :D

Back to the game - I think the Czechs earned their victory. Germany was not bad considering the games they played so far, but they were better. If they can hold that level, we may very well see them in the finals!
My bet would be: final France-Czechs, 2:3 and the Czechs win the EM04.


Greetings, Fragbait

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Is it true what I've heard that Tante Käthe resigned from his position? This can't be true.

Yep, both Völler and Skibbe have stepped down.

Regarding the game yesterday, our team played really great between the 1:1 and the 1:2 - why can't they play like that all the time? :angry: But at least it's a very good sign for future tournaments (2006!) that the strongest players had been the young ones, Lahm especially. Regardless who will become the new coach, I hope he will continue to use the young players and won't make the typical German mistake to rely only on the older players.

My bet would be: final France-Czechs, 2:3 and the Czechs win the EM04.

Uh, if France keeps on playing like they did the last three games, they won't reach the final. A Zidane alone won't be enough.

My guess would be Portugal - Czechs, although I'm not sure if that's possible or if these two team will meet each other before the final.

-Kylearan

[eppie]

Hi guys,

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees Holland advances!!!!!!

Anyway, I did not really expect this. It is also stange that I am not so happy about as I used to be 4 years ago and earlier. Maybe it is because we depended on the germany-czech rep. match.

I guess I will be getting a bit more enthousiastic now. Next up is Sweden, my guess is that they want to go for a draw ;) . But I go for a 3-1 victory for holland. I just hope that the referees will pay attention to the actions of Zlatan "the windmill" Ibrahimovic. I know him from his games with Ajax..and this guy likes to swing his arms round.
:rolleyes:
eppie

[Brista]

It seems to me that this tournament is really exposing teams who sit back

We (England) did it once we were one up against the French

I think the old days of teams getting a goal and then just clamping down on the game are truly gone at this level

I think the English realised this which is why we attacked so much against Croatia. Best way to counter a team that might score one or two goals is to stick four in yourselves

But England aside many many teams have gone into cruise mode and been punished for it. The big names who have been knocked out are all very much guilty of this

Maybe the sport psychology needs to change. In tennis, no matter how the match is going you have to remain utterly competitive since if you stop winning points you'll eventually lose. In football, where this genuinely hasn't been the case in the past, it seems like it's becoming true at international level

It remains a fascinating tournament, hope we don't go one up against Portugal tonight and try to sit on it

[nobbie]

Well, I'm from Germany but I think our team goes home because they deserved it. There were enough chances to win (Netherlands, and especially Lettland), but our team generally acted too lame. That Rudi Voeller took his hat today is a mistake though, in my opinion. There's much work to do for the German team until the World Championship in 2006 and I hope, whoever steps into Voeller's shoes now, that he does a good job. The team deserves it.

Last but no least I have to say that I'm not a fan of "wiz-bang" football with overpaid, absolutely dominant stars, i.e. Beckham, Rooney and the like. So, I'd like to see Pavel Nedved's Czech team win the European Championship this year :)

[Moldran]

I am glad that we got rid of Voeller now. It was largely his fault. How can you go into such a game with *one real forward* ? What the f.... did Voeller think ? That Latvia plays draw vs the Netherlands ?
When he finally brought the second forward after the half time break, the team played alot better, but it was too late. Voeller's strategies were much too cowardish, except maybe in the game vs the Netherlands (there, the 90% defense / 10% offense strategy was probably appropriate). He apparently had no real trust in his team.

I think it is pretty clear who will be Voeller's successor: Ottmar Hitzfeld.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

I think it is pretty clear who will be Voeller's successor: Ottmar Hitzfeld.

I can't really comment on that, but what I found really funny was what Bayern München (don't know who exactly) has said about the proposal for Hitzfeld becoming Völler's successor: That Hitzfeld is the best Germany has when it comes to coaches. Er...yeah sure, that's way they replaced him with Magath, right? :rolleyes:

-Kylearan

[Brista]

Last but no least I have to say that I'm not a fan of "wiz-bang" football with overpaid, absolutely dominant stars, i.e. Beckham, Rooney and the like. So, I'd like to see Pavel Nedved's Czech team win the European Championship this year :)

Lol, Rooney is actually on a rather ordinary pay packet at one of the English Premiership's more unfashionable sides

It was a bit of a surprise he even started

As for Beckham he has been one of the least significant players for England so far in these Finals

And as for Nedved I imagine Juventus pay their European Footballer of the Year a fair bit :lol:

[Lord_Olf]

Hail Brista,

I think you're absolutely right: Better to try and score goals than hide behind a strong defence. Germany did not do this, and they went home deservingly.

I'm really looking forward to tonight's game England-Portugal, and I'll be cheering on the guys with the three lions on the shirt - not only because I like the English, but also because the team plays a nice offensive game that is fun to watch!

Right now, my dream final would be England vs. Czech (I'm not sure if that is possible, but one can dream, can't one). Still, every team that got this far deserves to win... well, with the possible exception of France ;-)

Take care and have fun,

Lord_Olf

[Assur]

Hi

Just got home from watching Portugal-England. The best game I've seen for years, even though the "wrong"team won. It's games like this which will keep my interest in football alive.

I'm trying to remember when I last saw a German national side play like this >sob<

good karma

[eppie]

Exactly, nice match. I went to sleep after the 1-1 but that was not beacuse it was boring.

About the 2-2 of sweden and denmark. Of course Italy had it coming, and they would probably also have done the same if they could. AndI don't know if it was rigged, but just for the sake of discussion:
..... if you say that they played a very offensive match etc. so you could see they didn't go for the 2-2, how would to teams make a 2-2 otherwise? (I mean without it looking like a fraud)?
It is not like 0-0 were you just play a bit slower and miss if you get the chance.

(okay this was not very clear maybe)
So what I say is: I don't want to state that teh match was rigged, but I think the argument : "look what a nice match with to attacking teams, they both went for victory" is not correct.

[Moldran]

..... if you say that they played a very offensive match etc. so you could see they didn't go for the 2-2, how would to teams make a 2-2 otherwise? (I mean without it looking like a fraud)?

Denmark dominated the game and was attacking most of the time. Sweden used the chances they got. Denmark had several chances to score the 3:1, especially with distance shots.
If the score is 2:1 and you want to achieve a cheated 2:2, you just don't play like that. You don't keep attacking 'with full force'. You hold the ball in the midfield, then in an appropriate situation one of your players commits a 'stupidity' that grants the opposing team a penalty, then you hold the ball in the midfield again until minute 93 ;)

If the game was a fraud, with the way Denmark kept attacking, their would have been the risk of scoring a goal accidentaly.

It is also how the teams played on the individual level. There were relatively many hard one on one fights that contained a risk of getting hurt, which is something professional football players tend to avoid like the plague - a career is easily ruined by a severe injury.

[Walkiry]

The Portugal-England game was brilliant. It was something I did expect given how these two have been playing, and they didn't disappoint. Good stuff.

[Lord_Olf]

Hail eppie,

I really expected you to comment on this first: The Curse is broken - Holland can advance by penalty kicks!

I was really glad to see this, even if my mother was not ("May the best team win - as long as it is Sweden!"). I think they (or better: van Nistelrooy) wasted a lot of good chances, but van der Sar and Robben made it right in the end. Again, glad to see that Holland at last got rid of this trauma.

A nice game to watch, even if the score was 0:0 until the penalty kicking began... but that's suspense for you!

Take care,

Lord_Olf

[Walkiry]

The Czech Republic/Denmark game was amazing. So even, and in 15 minutes BAM! Game Over! That's football for you, probably not fair but hella entertaining.

And the Greece-france... speaks for itself ^_^

[eppie]

Hail eppie,

I really expected you to comment on this first: The Curse is broken - Holland can advance by penalty kicks!

I was really glad to see this, even if my mother was not ("May the best team win - as long as it is Sweden!"). I think they (or better: van Nistelrooy) wasted a lot of good chances, but van der Sar and Robben made it right in the end. Again, glad to see that Holland at last got rid of this trauma.

A nice game to watch, even if the score was 0:0 until the penalty kicking began... but that's suspense for you!

Take care,

Lord_Olf

Well my repsonse is a bit late. The problem was while biting my nails I accidently started eating my fingers as well. And typing with your nose takes quite a long time :D

Well of course I'm happy, and I think Holland was better then the swedes....but not a lot better. But after winning with penalty's I feel now we can go all the way.

Denmark vs. Czech republic, I'm sorry for the Danes, I guess if the would have scored in the first half they would win it. But playing against the leading Czechs, is very very difficult.