I, Robot

[Drasca]

I admit. I was prejudiced against I, Robot the movie. It couldn't do Asimov well, could it? From the trailers, it looked like they turned it into a survival horror movie. Luckily, I was surprised it was not.

Mind you, the first half an hour or so is pure cheese. Not really worth seeing. That's where all Will Smith comedy joke likes that don't belong are there, where there are gratuitous 'show-off' body shots of him, where there are obvious product placements, and Grandama sweet potato pie eating scenes. Will Smith is prejudiced, and the audience is obviously made to take his blind hate side because he's Will Smith, the hero, right? Well I'm not. I take the robot side. I've read Asimov's I, Robot short story anthology before--I know the basics of what'll happen. I'm there in the movie theater to see if I, Robot can really stick up to Asimov's style. . . and you know? I, Robot does.

Will Smith stops yapping. Product placements, gratuitious lines and body shots end, and we get a Robot Protagonist! The movie becomes a real robot detective story, with Dr. Alfred Lanning leaving clues for Will Smith's character Detective Del Spooner like the breadcrumbs. A Hansel and Gretel book in Lanning's lab being one of the first tip-offs to the greater mystery our detective has to discover.

I am happy it is not a pure B-movie ripoff of Asimov. I thought it'd be a cheesy techno-flick with nothing but Will Smith's yapping and lots of robots going crazy, but I got my detective story with robot protagonist heart. Three Laws Robots acted as robots should, and other Asimov Robots acted as they should when those rules are stretched to their limit. The robot mystery onion is peeled, and I got a near thoroughly enjoyable experience (with exception to the beginning, and one or two waste-of-time sell-out spot scenes later).

Anyone else?

[Urza-DSF]

Now, unfortunatly I havent had a chance to read through the I, Robot stories (took me ages just to find Neuromancer from our library system, and thats a totally different genra [sp?]). Regardless, from the commercials and previews it did indeed look like some kind of Matrix 2 and 3 garbage-pile thats the norm for movies nowadays.

But, after the product placement (Vintage 2004 Converses? Gimme a break) and the gratuitious shower scene, I'll have to go with you that they really pulled off a good piece of science fiction.

[[wcip]Angel]

For some reason, I'm actually looking forward to this. I've seen so many crappy movies lately at the cinema, I lost almost all hope. It took the doings of a Mr. Rhames - Ving Rhames - to spur a seedling of hope in my otherwise dead affection for movies (which is limited in the first place) when I caught "Dawn of the dead" with a friend of mine. It wasn't quite as good as 28 days later, but still a very enjoyable flick it was indeed.

As for Mr. Smith; I really don't care either way about him. I can see how people would dislike him, but I don't think I've seen any movie starring Big Willie (Wild Wild West notwithstanding) that was utter crap. I seem to remember liking both Independence day and that conspiracy movie with the guy from "Get Shorty". I don't have a prejudice against any movie (other than it is in fact a movie, and thus crap by definition until proven otherwise) starring Will Smith, and I think I, Robot might be 'neat'.

I'm still brimming with excitement and expectation about the up-coming survival-horror, left-in-the-streets-of-Raccoon-city-all-by-my-lonesome "Resident Evil II".

[Drasca]

Angel,Jul 24 2004, 02:39 PM] I'm still brimming with excitement and expectation about the up-coming survival-horror, left-in-the-streets-of-Raccoon-city-all-by-my-lonesome "Resident Evil II".

That's the only reason not to go to I, Robot showing late. There were decent trailers, and for Resident Evil: Apocalypse, they showed a Super-mutant shouldering a rocket launcher like it was from Fallout!!! I'm excited to see that movie for no other reason.

Similarly, I thoroughy enjoyed the Aliens vs Predator trailer before I,Robot. I didn't give a damn for the humans. They're fodder. I'm in it for the battle between AvP. There *might* be a likeable human protagonist, but I'm not counting on it. It isn't a survival horror so much as a battle royale muahahahaha.

I have had Will Smith prejudice because his quips don't belong in science fiction--but I'll restate after a certain point he actually acts and becomes the character of Del Spooner instead of smart-alecky Will Smith with 'white man so stupid' 'this situation's ridiculous' humour. Uh uh. I'm *glad* everyone stares like him like he's a fool in the movie. He is, and not a funny one. His "Let me get this straight" attitude does serve as a platform to explain the three laws of robotics and backround science/psychology for those not informed, at least--but it was unnecessary beyond that.

Do be excited about this movie Angel. I say its worth watching, and I'm glad to see one other agree with me.

[Urza-DSF]

Hmm, now this I dont know about. While yes, some of his one-liners and quips are out of place, one or two are actually pretty good. For example, the "allergic to bull#$%&" and "stupidest smart person" lines just...kinda fit I suppose.

But yeah, most of the other stuff I could have done without.

[Guest]

edited

[Refrigerator]

I also thought it was very good! I remember that I read at least part of I, robot, but I really don't remember anything about it it except for the 3 laws.


***BIT OF A SPOILER***







When Will Smith was fighting that one robot after the car crash. The metal arm. I was gaping in horror, thinking: "PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEAAASE don't tell me that the plot twist is that HE'S a robot too!!!" Thank god it was just his arm. -_-





***END SPOILER***
Apart from that, and the beginning, as you said, I really liked it too!

[BruceGod]

Nit 1: Whomever plays the robot does a better job of acting than Will Smith has ever done.
Nit 2: NONE of the movie EVER takes place in I, Robot. It's closer to the "The Caves of Steel" trilogy, where the NYC detective grows to respect his robotic partner.

If you can get past these two relatively minor failings, then yes, it IS worth your money to see it in the theatre.

Now for the update:

Some of you may know that I am in the Navy. I've never attempted to hide the fact. In fact, I left home sweet home (San Diego until January or so) way back in May. Fortunately, or un... this salient fact might have gone unnoticed. So, I'm clarifying things a little. We went North to participate in Operation Northern Edge; we went South to participate in RIMPAC; now we are going West to participate in JASEX. If you don't know what these are, don't worry. You are either terrorists, or you will inadvertently tell terrorists what and where we are going. In any case, since I just HAPPEN to be on the Three Star Admiral’s Flagship. I'm relatively "safe". Trust me, I’d rather be a tad closer to the front, doing "SOMETHING USEFUL". But, oh well. No danger, no glory. I know it's not a piece of cake. But, to Occhi and all the rest, I salute you.

P.S. More than slightly drunk. "Drink to the foam", and all that.

Drinks tonight:
1) Blue Hawaii
2) Jose Cuervo Gold Margarita
3) Hurricane
4) Kamikaze
5) Crème De Menthe & Irish Crème

All in under two hours!
:blink:

Note: In small quantities, alcohol acts as a STIMULANT

[NiteFox]

(took me ages just to find Neuromancer from our library system, and thats a totally different genra [sp?]).

Amazon is your friend. You should be able to pick up Gibson's entire Matrix series (Only three books... Well, 3.5 if you include Johnny Mnemonic and Burning Chrome in the Burning Chrome short story collection) pretty darn easily. And no, it has nothing to do with that Matrix, and neither does Johnny Mnominc have much to do with the movie/novelisation of a few years back, but it does give a brief history on Molly, especially if you ever found yourself wondering if her former partner she mentions in Neuromancer sounds a tad familiar.

If there is a fault with Gibson's work (And this really only applies to the latter two books in the series, Neuromancer is remarkably focused) is that... Damn, way too many substories that all merge unthinkingly into one metastory. Count Zero had, at the best, three parallel stories (And even then it took some work to figure out how exactly Marly's story tacked onto the other two) but Mona Lisa Overdrive is one huge mess, and while you could theoretically read Count Zero without any prior knowledge, you simply can't do that with MLO. It's almost as if he thought, "Hey, let's just shove every single main protagonist and antagonist of the last two books into one huge mash of plot. Well, except for Case and Beauvoir, who were cool."

Still. Molly has all the best lines. Molly always has all the best lines. "Wore 'em to kick the s*** out of Prior."

*Sigh*

That's the only reason not to go to I, Robot showing late. There were decent trailers, and for Resident Evil: Apocalypse, they showed a Super-mutant shouldering a rocket launcher like it was from Fallout!!! I'm excited to see that movie for no other reason.

Super Mutant shouldering a rocket launcher, hmm? Did someone utter... Nemesis? That's probably who it is, since RE:A is going to be set within the plot of Resident Evil 3: Nemesis (Not 2, note). Yep. Alice (Ain't it? Never really paid attention to character names in the first movie, instead resorting to repeatedly yelling "You call that a Licker? That's not a Licker!" at the screen. I was kinda disappointed, every single trailer I'd seen gave the impression that the BFM of the movie was a Tyrant, not what would be lowly cannon fodder.) is going to be barging shoulders with Jill and Carlos and the rest of the fun RE:3 crew. It's probably going to be as wonderful as it really sounds.

*Sighs once more* I'd rather read S. D. Perry's novels again than sit through another RE movie...

Where was I? Oh yes... Asimov's work has eluded me entirely. He's been one author whose works I've truly been meaning to pick up and start reading, but have yet to do so. Can anyone suggest a decent place to start?

[pakman]

I saw the movie yesterday. I have always stuck to the saying I made up, "just because it's a summer release, doesn't mean it's a good movie." In fact, I usually go into every movie thinking it's going to suck; that's just the way I am. I have never really been able to get through anything of Asimov's, really, Foundation and Empire just did not interest me. I did enjoy the movie. There were some parts that I thought did not need to be in there, but overall it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. However, I think that it's one of those "only see once" movies for me seeing as I didn't miss anything unlike Pirates of the Carribean or Shrek where you miss little comments.

Refrigerator, when I saw the commercial of him punching through the concrete I thought the exact same thing, Will's character was a robot.

[Oomph-aak]

Start w/ the I, Robot anthology of robot stories. Asimov really shines in the short story dept, but I can't say I enjoyed his novels as much. Asimov wrote a bunch of mystery novels too, did you know that? I am still looking for them, as I wonder if they could be better than his SF novels. Actually any of his robot stories and novels are the better part of his catalogue IMHO.


Oomph-aak

[Urza-DSF]

Asimov wrote a bunch of mystery novels too

Actually to my knowledge Asimov has written a book for all of the different dewey decimal system book classifications. Quite a feat, though I only knew that through an article Kasreyn linked from his journal: http://slate.msn.com/id/2103979/

The writer definatly makes some good points, but hey, how often are people mad that books made into movies are different?

[Drasca]

The Robot protagonist Sonny voice actor was Alan Tudyk, and the 3D modeling now-a-days also mimics the actual acting of the voice actors.

He does a damn fine job of acting, and you're perfectly right about Will Smith's "acting." I have a beef against Will Smith for the same reason. He doesn't act. He's just himself. Will Carey, however much nutty his characters can revert to sometimes, Will carey does act. Will Smith is Will Smith, not Del Spooner in I, Robot and most notably in the first half hour. At least he shuts up in the rest of the movie. That gives the illusion of acting while everyone else makes up for him.

You know, the basic premise of I, Robot's emotion being stereotypically better than logic (and robots being evil) going against Asimov's love of logic, and rational behaviour wouldn't be so bad if Del Spooner had given Sonny an 'eye wink' for the his emotional plea, and Sonny given another eye wink back--thus showing Sonny the Robot knewa better logical solution rather than simply caving into emotional plea.

Realizing "Hey! I can save both!" instead of I must save one or the other.

[NiteFox]

The writer definatly makes some good points, but hey, how often are people mad that books made into movies are different?

And on the other end of the scale we have Fight Club, which aside from a few major points (Mainly to do with the ending) is a pretty damned faithful adaptation of the novel.

Fear.

[Barrid]

Hello,

I don't know where I've been. I've never read any of Asimov's works. Actually, I've never even heard of the guy, and thought 'I, Robot' was simply an original movie not based on anything (I can't remember if it said in the movie if it was based on a novel or not, I didn't think so). So, I'm afraid I can't give any opinion about how the movie parallels/doesn't parallel with Asimov.

However, I have something else interesting to comment on. I watched this movie with a few friends of mine, one of which is taking a course in University in which they sometimes do studies of movies to find hidden meanings (I can't remember the name of the course or anything since I don't know her that well, and they only visited for a few days). After the movie, she noted about how the movie is a play on how the U.S. is "still afraid of" Russia/U.S.S.R. and communism. Some points she noted:
- The company that makes the robots was named "USR".... USSR?
- Will's shoes were "converse".... perhaps a play on words? Conservative?
She noted about how the movie is about human freedom being in danger from a prison-like state, which is what the U.S. is all about, protecting the freedoms of the people. I found this quite interesting, and it increased my liking of the movie.

In other news, I didn't find Will all that bad, myself.... :P I'm a fan of his "acting style", I don't really know why.

Overall, an enjoyable movie, IMO. Cool special effects (I'm a sucker for flashy eye candy), and an intriguing storyline with the three laws and "emotion in the machine".

- Barrid

[Chaerophon]

Well, I haven't seen the movie yet, but here's what I'm thinking...

- USR is probably something along the lines of 'United States Robotics'

- Converse has been around for years. I don't think that this corporate brand name has anything remotely to do with Communism.

- Your third contention is a bit simplistic for my liking, I'll leave it at that...

[Drasca]

USR is US Robotics, like any other big company like US Steel. USR has been around since before Communism was a threat. Note Asimov got his first story Robbie published 1940, his collection I, Robot 1950 and other stories in that anthology were published in-between those dates.

Besides that, the movie totally screws up attitude-wise. It does the established "fear the evil robot" tripe. No relation to USSR and communism.


Your friend needs to look for hidden meanings elsewhere. This movie's all about hitting you over the head. The only hidden part is how much you *should* trust robots. Robots save Will Smith's life countless times. He's just paranoid, blind, and stupid--and chases after the 'wrong guy' for half the movie. He's also pissed that a robot made a judgement call that wasn't his, saving his life and not someone else, and blames it on being robot instead of his own helplessness. He didn't do anything to help the situation, and he then blames the robot for saving him over someone else while he doesn't even try to save himself! Illogical? Irrational? Yes.

Asimov's main beef is that given knowledge that is dangerous, we use wisdom and reason to safely. We don't just give into fear and witchhunt shunning. Instead, we get a main character and movie that very much panders to people's fears. Oh no! The robots have gone crazy! Ahhhhh! Frankenstein fear.

On a side note, I got the freebie glow pen! In spite of putting the address in the wrong slots! =)

[Barrid]

Hello,

You are right, I suppose. I was interested in the communism meaning becuase of what seemed to be a play on words. I know that USR did mean something like "US Robotics", but nonetheless, the abbreviation is similar to USSR. Same goes with Converse. I know who Converse is, but even so, the "play on words" is still there.

Plenty of good points have been brought up, I figured I'd just throw in her hypothesis to the discussion table. As far as Will goes, he freely admits in the movie that he was prejudiced against robots. He never liked them, and the "bad judgement call" by the robot during his accident just made him even more against them. I just assumed that during the accident, he was trapped or otherwise unable to help himself or anything in that situation. His prejudice eventually led him in the right directions, though, but only because the Doctor knew that and laid out all the clues. Will was pretty much a pawn through the whole movie, his only real strength being just that, strength and brawn.

[jahcs]

Barrid Posted: Jul 27 2004, 01:37 PM 

I watched this movie with a few friends of mine, one of which is taking a course in University in which they sometimes do studies of movies to find hidden meanings (I can't remember the name of the course or anything since I don't know her that well, and they only visited for a few days). After the movie, she noted about how the movie is a play on how the U.S. is "still afraid of" Russia/U.S.S.R. and communism. Some points she noted:
- The company that makes the robots was named "USR".... USSR?
- Will's shoes were "converse".... perhaps a play on words? Conservative?

Ah, the over-analysis of university students.

As stated USR is US Robotics:
USR's Homepage
Note the link for I, Robot in the upper left portion of the page.

From Dictionary.com
con·verse2    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kn-vûrs, knvûrs)
adj.
Reversed, as in position, order, or action; contrary.

n. (knvûrs)
Something that has been reversed; an opposite.
Logic. A proposition obtained by conversion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Latin conversus, past participle of convertere, to turn around. See convert.]

The Converse shoe company has been around since 1908. If the product placement is ruled by more than money then maybe it's because Will Smith's character has views converse to those shared by other characters in the film.

Just my $.02 :)

[Cryptic]

I'm not sure about the communist subtext, but one intentional message that is certainly in the movie is that of the effects of racism on society.

At first, I thought that Will was horribly miscast for this movie, because it created a tone improper for Asimov's works and turned a thoughtful premise into a simple popcorn movie. I was only half right in that regard - it is dumbed down to appeal to the masses, but it still has a thoughtful center for those who are willing to overlook their prejudices.

Basically, having a black protagonist adds a level of irony to the proceedings. He has a prejudice against robots that originally developed due to his affection for the "old ways." (In this case, represented through homemade pie, old shoes and stereos, old music, etc.; but obviously the message here is that he is a traditionalist.) He does not like change.

His discomfort with the future is exacerbated by unwanted help received from an individual of the stigmatized class in question. (His life is saved while that of an innocent is lost.) Illogically, and emotionally, he attaches this incident to all of his future perceptions toward that class. I thought it was demonstrated quite well to the audience that he made a choice here; the audience could sympathize with it, but also see the logical weakness in it.

The protagonist is forced to re-analyze his beliefs when he comes face to face with an individual of the stigmatized class. His reactions to this situation are not entirely positive, but they do force him to think.

Soon, he develops an antagonistic view of the individual, the more he learns. But it is an individualized dislike. And as he does so, the seed of doubt grows in his mind, and he is more and more able to see the situation from the other side.

Eventually, a plateau is reached where he and the individual come to an uneasy truce of understanding. This allows them to work together, and even to become friends after facing hardship together.

At the end, the individual is accepted into general society, and into the protagonist's worldview. This individual asks - Now that I've been accepted, what will I do? The protagonist replies, what you do is up to you. That's the essence of freedom.

The individual chooses first to explore his dreams, looking for answers. This very journey, even if we don't know its results, is an inspiration to others of the stigmatized class. They now have an evolutionary journey to look forward to, if they wish to strive toward it.

That's not a bad arc for a summer action flick.
B)