Cheating ethics

[whathuh]

Here is my dilemma: my family owns 4 computers. My father enjoys diablo 2 single player. I enjoy multiplayer. We own 2 sets of cdkeys and games. For some odd reason, I can't find the other LOD cd, forcing only one of us to play at a time. For convenience sake, I'm using d2loader to start my games as my father can't get it to work at all. I also on occasion use a maphack to check the ilvls of items when I am looking for things to cube and such. Is this a frowned upon use of cheats or not? I realize that since they are 3rd party programs, I run the risk of losing my accounts/cdkeys, but I was just wondering if it was ethical or not.

[adeyke]

Here is my dilemma:  my family owns 4 computers.  My father enjoys diablo 2 single player.  I enjoy multiplayer.  We own 2 sets of cdkeys and games.  For some odd reason, I can't find the other LOD cd, forcing only one of us to play at a time.  For convenience sake, I'm using d2loader to start my games as my father can't get it to work at all.  I also on occasion use a maphack to check the ilvls of items when I am looking for things to cube and such.  Is this a frowned upon use of cheats or not?  I realize that since they are 3rd party programs, I run the risk of losing my accounts/cdkeys, but I was just wondering if it was ethical or not.
[right][snapback]57725[/snapback][/right]

Need you even ask <_<?

[lfd]

Need you even ask <_<?
[right][snapback]57726[/snapback][/right]

Well, trivially, yes.

If d2loader does nothing besides bypass the CD-in-drive check, and if the original poster is truthful and actually does have a valid CD key *somewhere*, I don't see where the ethical or moral dilemma is.

I've made an ISO of my LOD CD and written down the associated CD key should I lose either the case or the CD; I tend to mount the ISO as an image rather than futz around trying to find the actual disc. I've bought the game, I still legally own it, I'm still using my legal CD key Is that unethical or immoral? I can't see how.

The more contentious maphack issue I'm not touching with a ribcracker.

[vmxa]

Using a virtual CD is the way to go, I use Alcohl120 for all games.

Using MAPHACK is not only unethical, but as you said, it can get you tossed.

[gekko]

My father enjoys diablo 2 single player.&nbsp; I enjoy multiplayer

Keep in mind that whether you're playing single or multiplayer ultimately should answer this question for you. If you're playing single player (or over a LAN in your house where everyone agrees to use program X), you can do whatever you want. You'll only be cheating yourself.

If, on the other hand, you're loggin on to b.net and playing multiplayer, then yes, it is cheating. How 'bad' it is depends on the program, and that, I'm also not touching with a ribcracker :). If you choose to use 3rd party programs, you ARE cheating, and you ARE breaking blizzard's rules.

That being said, it is only a game. You can frankly do whatever you want, and with blizzard's track record, you'll probably never face any consequences. On [/i]this site,[/i] on the other hand, we actually have a zero-tolerance policy -- and it's enforced. So don't cheat on b.net :)

gekko

[Taem]

I also on occasion use a maphack to check the ilvls of items when I am looking for things to cube and such.
[right][snapback]57725[/snapback][/right]

I know its already been said, but it's reason hasn't been sufficiently explained. Here’s food for your thoughts:

IF BLIZZARD WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE ITEM LEVELS ON BATTLE.NET, THEY WOULD OF MADE THEM AVAILABLE TO SEE IN GAME!

What does this mean in regards to you? If you use your maphack (or any other 3rd party program for that matter) to view the item levels in battle.net, you are cheating plain and simple!

[whathuh]

I know its already been said, but it's reason hasn't been sufficiently explained.&nbsp; Here?s food for your thoughts:

IF BLIZZARD WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE ITEM LEVELS ON BATTLE.NET, THEY WOULD OF MADE THEM AVAILABLE TO SEE IN GAME!

What does this mean in regards to you?&nbsp; If you use your maphack (or any other 3rd party program for that matter) to view the item levels in battle.net, you are cheating plain and simple!
[right][snapback]57739[/snapback][/right]

I figured someone would bring that up, and I more than half agree. But the problem is I could actually write down all the monster levels that dropped the item (baal always has level 99 stuff in hell and such). So the information is available in a legit way, unless you view cheating as exploiting something that blizzard didn't tell you about. I don't use the maphack part of the maphack, only the part to get ilvl, but i dont think ill use it again anyway. As much as I hate hidden numbers (especially the 10 second duration on eye of etlitch), I guess it was there for a purpose.
That actually brings me to a new sort of item. What if D2 was more like D&D in that magic items rarely have any sort of identification on them, making ALL the properties hidden to the player instead of just the few hidden properties on items now?

[Griselda]

But here's the thing. At this site, the maphack argument horse has been beaten to death and ground into glue long ago. Our policy here is that we consider any use of maphack in multiplayer games to be cheating, and we are not interested in debating the issue. So, we ask that posters here respect our opinions on the subject and agree not to use maphack in multiplayer games for any reason.

If you're looking to debate the legitimacy of maphack, or find a forum where you can continue to use maphack, you'll need to look elsewhere. If you can accept our policy, you're welcome to stick around.

-Griselda

[Archon_Wing]

Here is my dilemma:&nbsp; my family owns 4 computers.&nbsp; My father enjoys diablo 2 single player.&nbsp; I enjoy multiplayer.&nbsp; We own 2 sets of cdkeys and games.&nbsp; For some odd reason, I can't find the other LOD cd, forcing only one of us to play at a time.&nbsp; For convenience sake, I'm using d2loader to start my games as my father can't get it to work at all.&nbsp; I also on occasion use a maphack to check the ilvls of items when I am looking for things to cube and such.&nbsp; Is this a frowned upon use of cheats or not?&nbsp; I realize that since they are 3rd party programs, I run the risk of losing my accounts/cdkeys, but I was just wondering if it was ethical or not.
[right][snapback]57725[/snapback][/right]

This community is opposed to cheating.

Is it ethical or not? Why do you need to ask us for confirmation? It's not like whatever anyone posts should affect what you are doing anyways.

[whathuh]

This community is opposed to cheating.

Is it ethical or not?&nbsp; Why do you need to ask us for confirmation? It's not like whatever anyone posts should affect what you are doing anyways.
[right][snapback]57756[/snapback][/right]

I realize that everyone here is against maphack, maybe I should have used the term ilvl finder or something, but it doesn't change the program I was using to do it. I was just wondering if others thought that the use of a hack to find out hidden numbers was an acceptable form of cheating (I disabled everything on the hack except for this). I know that many people use hacks to improve performance on slower machines, while it is still hacking, it is not considered flagrant cheating like botting or use of maphack.
And yes, people's posts do affect me. I'm going to craft the old fashioned way now because I now believe that Blizzard hid the numbers for a reason.

[Munkay]

I was just wondering if others thought that the use of a hack to find out hidden numbers was an acceptable form of cheating (I disabled everything on the hack except for this).&nbsp; I know that many people use hacks to improve performance on slower machines, while it is still hacking, it is not considered flagrant cheating like botting or use of maphack.&nbsp;
And yes, people's posts do affect me.&nbsp; I'm going to craft the old fashioned way now because I now believe that Blizzard hid the numbers for a reason.
[right][snapback]57766[/snapback][/right]

First off, Foxbat's program improves client side visual effects. It does not give the user any game advantage other than better frame rates.

This is in a completely different realm than server side hacks like maphack. You are using a program to gain information that the regular user is not able to take advantage of.

To be fair, I understand you are not trying to troll, but start a civilized discussion. But please do be aware we've spoke on maphack multiple times, and at the end of the day no matter what is said, is our opinion as a community going to be changed on this. Our personal opinions (more or less) reflect this policy.

Whether its killing a person, or stepping on a toe, both are inflicting pain; a hack is a hack, no matter how serverly it hacks.

Cheers,

Munk

[whathuh]

First off, Foxbat's program improves client side visual effects.&nbsp; It does not give the user any game advantage other than better frame rates.

This is in a completely different realm than server side hacks like maphack.&nbsp; You are using a program to gain information that the regular user is not able to take advantage of.

To be fair, I understand you are not trying to troll, but start a civilized discussion.&nbsp; But please do be aware we've spoke on maphack multiple times, and at the end of the day no matter what is said, is our opinion as a community going to be changed on this.&nbsp; Our personal opinions (more or less) reflect this policy.

Whether its killing a person, or stepping on a toe, both are inflicting pain; a hack is a hack, no matter how serverly it hacks.

Cheers,

Munk
[right][snapback]57772[/snapback][/right]

Thanks for the input. I didnt think that this aspect of maphack had been addressed however. I also hadn't realized that maphack was a server side hack. I'd always thought it was just a program that unlocked a few map properties already available in the game.

[FoxBat]

I also hadn't realized that maphack was a server side hack.
[right][snapback]57817[/snapback][/right]

Strictly speaking, it's not. It's just displaying data the client has squirreled away in memory anyway.

[Taem]

I'd always thought it was just a program that unlocked a few map properties already available in the game.
[right][snapback]57817[/snapback][/right]

Then how did you know about this supposid item level ability of the program? There is no "JUST" about it. You make is sound as if maphack is "just" trivial, as if its a hack everyone uses. IMO, your digging yourself deeper into a hole! Stop talking about it! It's simply NOT accepted here and there is no "just this" or "just that" about this program! It's simply not tolerated and I think this topic should be locked!!! :angry:

I reported this topic so I hope it gets locked. I don't see ANY good comming out of this discussion!

[lfd]

Then how did you know about this supposid item level ability of the program?&nbsp; There is no "JUST" about it.&nbsp; You make is sound as if maphack is "just" trivial, as if its a hack everyone uses.&nbsp; IMO, your digging yourself deeper into a hole!&nbsp; Stop talking about it!&nbsp; It's simply NOT accepted here and there is no "just this" or "just that" about this program!&nbsp; It's simply not tolerated and I think this topic should be locked!!!&nbsp; :angry:

I reported this topic so I hope it gets locked.&nbsp; I don't see ANY good comming out of this discussion!
[right][snapback]57830[/snapback][/right]

Wow, calm down.

I don't think there's anything to be gained by assuming the worst of someone, especially not in such a hysterical manner.

[whathuh]

When I said "just," I meant that I hadn't realized that it was a server side hack. In my opinion, client side hacks aren't half as serious as server sides, since you are screwing with your own computer.

The way I found out about the ilvl finder was simple, my father wanted a maphack since the old one didn't work with 1.10. Without maphack, my father thinks the game is just too hard, which it is in hell.

If it is that important to lock it, by all means go ahead. This topic is sounding more and more like the legalization of weed.

[Zingydex]

When I said "just," I meant that I hadn't realized that it was a server side hack.&nbsp; In my opinion, client side hacks aren't half as serious as server sides, since you are screwing with your own computer.
[right][snapback]57868[/snapback][/right]

Whether it's serious or not makes no difference. It's still a hack, still a violation of the agreement you made by installing the game in the first place, and still against Lurker Lounge policy. "Cheating" and "ethics" are mutually exclusive concepts. Had you read the rules and FAQ, you'd know that it was a mistake to bring this up in the first place.

[ShadowHM]

my father wanted a maphack since the old one didn't work with 1.10.&nbsp; Without maphack, my father thinks the game is just too hard, which it is in hell.


[right][snapback]57868[/snapback][/right]

*snickers*

You know, I was a bit tickled at the outset of this thread to hear that your father played this game too. But both of you are flat out wrong on 'the game is just too hard, which it is in hell'. Maybe you should be encouraging him to do some reading on tactics and skill point distribution? And, just as with your kids, tell him that if he cannot play the game as designed, maybe he should find a new game? Pandering to him isn't going to help him become a better player.

Heck, in Single Player, you can take all the time you need to examine every drop, as you won't be slowing down any other players. You always have the map from the previous game up, so if you made a wrong turn on the way to the waypoint/exit last time, you can find your way the next time.


Time to stop justifying yourself to this crowd. Either forsake the add-on program or quit posting here. As Zingydex put it:

Had you read the rules and FAQ, you'd know that it was a mistake to bring this up in the first place.

Since they are not easy to access at the moment, you can find links to both in my signature. The point is that this is Bolty's Lounge, and he gets to set the rules. We who like those rules hang around in the Lounge and have a generally good time. Those who don't like the rules are pointed (sometimes gently) towards the exit sign.

[lfd]

if he cannot play the game as designed
[right][snapback]57878[/snapback][/right]

Single Player. Fire Enchanted. Fixed on the realms. Play the game as designed? Pff.

There's too many high horses on this thread.

[Chaerophon]

Single Player. Fire Enchanted.

Bah! They list attributes for a reason. Park 'em... dodge 'em... deal with it.