10-20-2004, 03:16 PM
The Honor System within WoW is something that should be thoroughly thought through. Iâm planning on suggesting the following, but I need your help, My Fellow Lurkers, to help me find holes in the system that people may try to exploit.
First, Iâll put in my assumptions. Iâm assuming that Blizzard uses extensive databases to keep track of everything. Iâm also assuming that there will invariably be groups/raid parties containing a very wide variety of character levels (10 â 60), who would use the level 10s to scout other groups/parties. Iâm sure that there are some here that Iâm forgetting some things here, or Iâm flat wrong on what Iâve written, but if you can help me here⦠I would appreciate it. All PvP fighting can be broken down into 3 classifications â Group vs. Group, Group vs. Individual, Individual vs. Individual.
Group vs. Group (Skirmishes, Raids, Sieges, Assaults and Battles)
When you have a group fighting a group, it would be open season on any member of the opposing group, regardless of the character level. The killing of an opposing party member would be considered honorable, on the basis that you are involved in the skirmish to begin with.
Controls that would definitely need to be implemented here would be if a level 60 hits a level 10, the level 10 couldnât simply drop from the group/party. Once you are in a group, and the group engages into battle, you are locked in the group until either you die, or the battle ends. When (not if) the level 60 kills the level 10, it is honorable since it was the level 10âs choice to be in that situation in the first place. Group adds are accepted, just not drops. I donât know if there is a way for the servers to check and see if there is someone with a lower level that was killed in a skirmish, logged out and is then trying to join in with a higher level character.
If you are killed in the skirmish, there are your normal ways of returning to life â Release and Resurrect, Resurrection, Soul Stone. You can resurrect as many times as needed or desired. If killed, you can at that time decide to leave the group/party, and your PvP status would be reset since your âallegianceâ has changed slightly. In this case only, would the level 10 be protected by way of the honor system.
This would require a change in the display color of a characterâs status. The current colors for characters when they are in Allied, Contested or Horde territory apply as normal, just that a new color would need to be placed into the mix to handle this.
Group vs. Individual (Uneven but Balanced Brawls and Synchronized Jumping)
This would be only honorable for a group to attack a much higher level, as opposed to vise versa (of course, this all being within reason).
Uneven but Balanced Brawls
You canât have 2 level 60s and 3 level 10s roving around in a party attacking level 50s. First, itâs not a fair fight. Second, a level 50 wouldnât even both going up against a level 60 and honestly expect to win.
You could, however, have a group of 4 level 20s attack a lone level 40. There is the chance that the level 40 could escape, and there is also the chance that the level 40 would win the fight.
The problem that I wrestle with here is where to draw the line on what would still constitute a fair fight? Would 3 level 30 players vs. a lone level 40? Unfortunately, Iâve just attained the highest level Iâve gotten last night, which is 25, so those of you that have experience in dealing with the higher level characters should put their input in on this point. We have the general rule of it being okay to attack something 3 levels above or below your level when itâs a normal mob, but I think that the equation does not fit when it comes to elites, and especially does not fit when it comes to PvP players.
Synchronized Jumping/Getting Jumped
What about 5 people (low level) that are not partied, but have a execute a coordinated attack on a higher level character? I donât think that this falls under the âUneven but Balanced Brawlâ or âGetting Jumped.â The key points here are the difference in levels, as well as the fact that the attackers are much lower in level than the higher level player. Whether the group is a roving bunch, or they setup and ambush, it doesnât matter. Itâs a coordinated attack either way you look at it. Itâs an ill-conceived notion that by not attacking as a party would make the fight seem dishonoring to the higher level player on the basis of reducing the fight from Group vs. Individual to Individual vs. Individual. In either case, the âSelf Defenseâ (see below) case would apply
Individual vs. Individual (Anti-Corpse Camping, Cross Faction Duels and Self Defense)
When it comes to this, I think that just about everyone that has spent any reasonable amount of time in contested territory has been âgankedâ at least once. I personally didnât enjoy my first time that much, but Iâm not going to cry about it.
Anti-Corpse Camping
It would be nice if there some is sort of feature that kept people from âcorpse camping.â I had experienced this marvelous method to grief on my way to Pyrewood Village one night. When another player is killed, there should be something where as a in a ghost state, you can cast something like âHauntâ on someone that is too close to your corpse, which would have the same effect of âFearâ on anyone flagged for PvP within xx yards of your corpse (not your spirit). This would at least scare the campers away so you can resurrect your corpse in relative safety.
Cross Faction Duels (When fair fights cease to be fair)
Based off of another experience that I had in Pyrewood Village, I was a level 23 Paladin waiting in the town for Mongo and Lem to arriave to hit SFK. A level 20 undead mage (who will remain nameless) thought that he could take me on. Within 10 seconds of the fight starting, the mage was down to 1/3 of his HP. He polymorphed me, and then ran to get help from a level 21 rogue. I then proceeded to die. However, if you start a fight with someone 3 levels above or below you, and then are forced get assistance from another character of approx. the same level, the fight ceases to be a fair fight. Once you start a fight alone, it should remain a lone fight (more of a cross-faction duel).
Self Defense
Just like with the laws in the real life judicial system (real life? What the hell is âreal life?â), there is a stipulation on self defense being a worthy defense in court if the person you are defending yourself against is killed. The same concept should apply to WoW.
If you have someone that you can definitely pound into the ground that attacks you, are you going to stand there and let them kill you? Two words â âHell no.â And unless you have a mount, you canât just run away, since everyone runs at the same speed. Yes, you can stun your attacker, but you then have a timer on that ability. If youâre up against a rogue, itâs going to boil down to a case where youâre going to have to either go toe-to-toe or die.
So letâs say that you do engage, and are simply pummeling the poor fool. Reason would dictate that your attacker would run when they get hurt enough. This is probably not so, not to mention that by the time they run, youâre probably starting to swing again. So you swing and they die. Was it your fault? No. You were defending yourself. You were attacked, and in the event of you defending yourself, you killed him. Whether or not it was a fair fight doesnât enter into it at that point.
Regardless, if someone comes at me like that, Iâll take the honor hit rather than have someone take advantage of the current and flawed system.
Special Roles (The âProtectorâ and The âTown Defenderâ Roles)
The âProtectorâ Role
Iâm not sure how to go about this one. Perhaps this could be a quest where you can choose to be a protector of a certain area, for a set amount of time. This would enable a level 60 to come along and help out a member of the same faction who is being attacked by a member of the other faction. Though it may be situations where the fight would normally be unfair, there would be honor, should the quest be completed. This would be something that would be helpful for the contested areas, where you have members of both factions running around and the chances of encounters are generally pretty high.
For instance, if the quest is given in Duskwood, this âprotectorâ role would only apply within Duskwood. If the player leaves Duskwood, or goes AFK, the quest is failed. But as long as the quest is valid, any member of the opposing faction is fair game, within the specified time that the quest is effective.
The âTown Defenderâ Role
I have only heard of this, where it is like the being a âChampionâ except you are defending a town or city from members of the other faction. The same rules would apply to the role as the âProtectorâ Role (see above), but the limits of the quest and role would be confined to the limits of the specific town or city that the role is given.
There you guys go. Rip it up. This will then become a "Lurker Lounge Suggestion to Blizzard on the Honor System."
SaxyCorp
First, Iâll put in my assumptions. Iâm assuming that Blizzard uses extensive databases to keep track of everything. Iâm also assuming that there will invariably be groups/raid parties containing a very wide variety of character levels (10 â 60), who would use the level 10s to scout other groups/parties. Iâm sure that there are some here that Iâm forgetting some things here, or Iâm flat wrong on what Iâve written, but if you can help me here⦠I would appreciate it. All PvP fighting can be broken down into 3 classifications â Group vs. Group, Group vs. Individual, Individual vs. Individual.
Group vs. Group (Skirmishes, Raids, Sieges, Assaults and Battles)
When you have a group fighting a group, it would be open season on any member of the opposing group, regardless of the character level. The killing of an opposing party member would be considered honorable, on the basis that you are involved in the skirmish to begin with.
Controls that would definitely need to be implemented here would be if a level 60 hits a level 10, the level 10 couldnât simply drop from the group/party. Once you are in a group, and the group engages into battle, you are locked in the group until either you die, or the battle ends. When (not if) the level 60 kills the level 10, it is honorable since it was the level 10âs choice to be in that situation in the first place. Group adds are accepted, just not drops. I donât know if there is a way for the servers to check and see if there is someone with a lower level that was killed in a skirmish, logged out and is then trying to join in with a higher level character.
If you are killed in the skirmish, there are your normal ways of returning to life â Release and Resurrect, Resurrection, Soul Stone. You can resurrect as many times as needed or desired. If killed, you can at that time decide to leave the group/party, and your PvP status would be reset since your âallegianceâ has changed slightly. In this case only, would the level 10 be protected by way of the honor system.
This would require a change in the display color of a characterâs status. The current colors for characters when they are in Allied, Contested or Horde territory apply as normal, just that a new color would need to be placed into the mix to handle this.
Group vs. Individual (Uneven but Balanced Brawls and Synchronized Jumping)
This would be only honorable for a group to attack a much higher level, as opposed to vise versa (of course, this all being within reason).
Uneven but Balanced Brawls
You canât have 2 level 60s and 3 level 10s roving around in a party attacking level 50s. First, itâs not a fair fight. Second, a level 50 wouldnât even both going up against a level 60 and honestly expect to win.
You could, however, have a group of 4 level 20s attack a lone level 40. There is the chance that the level 40 could escape, and there is also the chance that the level 40 would win the fight.
The problem that I wrestle with here is where to draw the line on what would still constitute a fair fight? Would 3 level 30 players vs. a lone level 40? Unfortunately, Iâve just attained the highest level Iâve gotten last night, which is 25, so those of you that have experience in dealing with the higher level characters should put their input in on this point. We have the general rule of it being okay to attack something 3 levels above or below your level when itâs a normal mob, but I think that the equation does not fit when it comes to elites, and especially does not fit when it comes to PvP players.
Synchronized Jumping/Getting Jumped
What about 5 people (low level) that are not partied, but have a execute a coordinated attack on a higher level character? I donât think that this falls under the âUneven but Balanced Brawlâ or âGetting Jumped.â The key points here are the difference in levels, as well as the fact that the attackers are much lower in level than the higher level player. Whether the group is a roving bunch, or they setup and ambush, it doesnât matter. Itâs a coordinated attack either way you look at it. Itâs an ill-conceived notion that by not attacking as a party would make the fight seem dishonoring to the higher level player on the basis of reducing the fight from Group vs. Individual to Individual vs. Individual. In either case, the âSelf Defenseâ (see below) case would apply
Individual vs. Individual (Anti-Corpse Camping, Cross Faction Duels and Self Defense)
When it comes to this, I think that just about everyone that has spent any reasonable amount of time in contested territory has been âgankedâ at least once. I personally didnât enjoy my first time that much, but Iâm not going to cry about it.
Anti-Corpse Camping
It would be nice if there some is sort of feature that kept people from âcorpse camping.â I had experienced this marvelous method to grief on my way to Pyrewood Village one night. When another player is killed, there should be something where as a in a ghost state, you can cast something like âHauntâ on someone that is too close to your corpse, which would have the same effect of âFearâ on anyone flagged for PvP within xx yards of your corpse (not your spirit). This would at least scare the campers away so you can resurrect your corpse in relative safety.
Cross Faction Duels (When fair fights cease to be fair)
Based off of another experience that I had in Pyrewood Village, I was a level 23 Paladin waiting in the town for Mongo and Lem to arriave to hit SFK. A level 20 undead mage (who will remain nameless) thought that he could take me on. Within 10 seconds of the fight starting, the mage was down to 1/3 of his HP. He polymorphed me, and then ran to get help from a level 21 rogue. I then proceeded to die. However, if you start a fight with someone 3 levels above or below you, and then are forced get assistance from another character of approx. the same level, the fight ceases to be a fair fight. Once you start a fight alone, it should remain a lone fight (more of a cross-faction duel).
Self Defense
Just like with the laws in the real life judicial system (real life? What the hell is âreal life?â), there is a stipulation on self defense being a worthy defense in court if the person you are defending yourself against is killed. The same concept should apply to WoW.
If you have someone that you can definitely pound into the ground that attacks you, are you going to stand there and let them kill you? Two words â âHell no.â And unless you have a mount, you canât just run away, since everyone runs at the same speed. Yes, you can stun your attacker, but you then have a timer on that ability. If youâre up against a rogue, itâs going to boil down to a case where youâre going to have to either go toe-to-toe or die.
So letâs say that you do engage, and are simply pummeling the poor fool. Reason would dictate that your attacker would run when they get hurt enough. This is probably not so, not to mention that by the time they run, youâre probably starting to swing again. So you swing and they die. Was it your fault? No. You were defending yourself. You were attacked, and in the event of you defending yourself, you killed him. Whether or not it was a fair fight doesnât enter into it at that point.
Regardless, if someone comes at me like that, Iâll take the honor hit rather than have someone take advantage of the current and flawed system.
Special Roles (The âProtectorâ and The âTown Defenderâ Roles)
The âProtectorâ Role
Iâm not sure how to go about this one. Perhaps this could be a quest where you can choose to be a protector of a certain area, for a set amount of time. This would enable a level 60 to come along and help out a member of the same faction who is being attacked by a member of the other faction. Though it may be situations where the fight would normally be unfair, there would be honor, should the quest be completed. This would be something that would be helpful for the contested areas, where you have members of both factions running around and the chances of encounters are generally pretty high.
For instance, if the quest is given in Duskwood, this âprotectorâ role would only apply within Duskwood. If the player leaves Duskwood, or goes AFK, the quest is failed. But as long as the quest is valid, any member of the opposing faction is fair game, within the specified time that the quest is effective.
The âTown Defenderâ Role
I have only heard of this, where it is like the being a âChampionâ except you are defending a town or city from members of the other faction. The same rules would apply to the role as the âProtectorâ Role (see above), but the limits of the quest and role would be confined to the limits of the specific town or city that the role is given.
There you guys go. Rip it up. This will then become a "Lurker Lounge Suggestion to Blizzard on the Honor System."
SaxyCorp
