Sad state of the gaming industry...

[Armin]

[rant]

Well, after that interesting read about how those filthy money-grabbing weasels at EA treat their employess I just encounterd a way how another company (Activision in this case) deals with QA...

One member of our RPG group (a real World of Darkness fan) mentioned how he liked the new Vampire: Bloodlines game (obviously, it seemed to run on HIS comp <_< )

So another friend of mine went to the store and grabbed a localized copy (I wanted to order the original version as I HATE translated games). It crashed his comp each time. After reinstalling *everything* he managed to "run" it in safe mode, in an unplayable and completely choppy way.

His system (P4 2000, 512 MB, GForce4, XP home, DX9.0c) meets system requirements (even if not spectacularly well)...

He brought it to my house and I tried the thing on my new gaming machine (AMD 64 3400+, 1Gig, GForce5900, XP Pro, DX9.0c) and guess what? It started in a video mode that my monitor doesn't support (needless to say, all my other games work fine) and crashes even in safe mode...

Third attempt today: went to another friend and tried it on my old comp that still serves there (Athlon XP2000+, 512 MB, GForce4, Win98se, DX9.0c) and guess what: no way to get the #*+&%$ pile of crap running.

So, there's a game that I'm supposed to pay 45 € for (about 55US$) and that does not run on 3 outa 4 randomly picked PC systems - all REGULARLY and primarily used for gaming - that ALL are equipped with latest drivers and meet system requirements?

The only advice on their support page is to lower resolution to 800x600, set an override command for monitor refresh rate in DXdiag, and close all programs running in the background (gee, pure genius :P )

Note: the program cannot be configured from a launch menu or something (like other games), if you want to change the resolution the game runs in, you have to manipulate the registry...

And those folks at Activision dare to waste precious oxygen? B)

[/rant]

[Minionman]

This activision one is a lot less serious, but the two call to power games they made both had some game issues. The first one had balance problems in the ancient age (the beginning of the game), while the second one had really confusing menus, more so than the first.

[AtomicKitKat]

I bought Civilisation 3, only to find to my consternation that those b******s at EA want me to switch off all CD duplication programs. Okay, reasonable request, I thought. So I disabled CloneCD's Virtual Drive(I don't even use that stuff any more), made sure it didn't start up, and rebooted. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. I can understand their concerns over piracy, but when I buy a game that I meet the requirements for, I bloody well expect to be able to play it. I'm not about to reinstall Windows 98(for probably the 10th time in my life) just to play a game, so the game will sit and collect dust till I get a brand new system(or someone can hack a way past that irritating POS requirement)

[Bolty]

I'm not about to reinstall Windows 98(for probably the 10th time in my life) just to play a game, so the game will sit and collect dust till I get a brand new system(or someone can hack a way past that irritating POS requirement)
[right][snapback]61955[/snapback][/right]

I also have a purchased copy of Civilization III - which I went to a crack site and downloaded the No-CD patch for. Irony.

The anti-piracy mechanisms these companies put in place are annoying and pointless, and simply anger the customer.

Anyway, there are no-CD cracks for Civ3 out there. But the fact that you're forced to get them to be able to enjoy the game you PAID for is irritating beyond belief.

-Bolty

[Nystul]

I bought Civilisation 3, only to find to my consternation that those b******s at EA want me to switch off all CD duplication programs. Okay, reasonable request, I thought. So I disabled CloneCD's Virtual Drive(I don't even use that stuff any more), made sure it didn't start up, and rebooted. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. I can understand their concerns over piracy, but when I buy a game that I meet the requirements for, I bloody well expect to be able to play it. I'm not about to reinstall Windows 98(for probably the 10th time in my life) just to play a game, so the game will sit and collect dust till I get a brand new system(or someone can hack a way past that irritating POS requirement)
[right][snapback]61955[/snapback][/right]

I'm not sure about Civ 3, but in Doom 3 the protection software actually looks for known emulation programs on the hard drive. With the emulation software on partition c: and Doom 3 on partition f:, I can run Doom 3 even while my emulated Diablo CD is loaded into a virtual drive (I haven't tried actually running Doom 3 off a virtual drive, heh). With the emulation software on the same drive partition as Doom 3, however, I cannot run the game even if everything is disabled.

I'm sure the publisher, Activision, is responsible for this great protection scheme. If I worked at IdSoftware, I would be a bit disgusted to have such useless software attached to the game I spent years polishing.

[Griselda]

I wonder if there will be any difference for Civ IV. I believe that anti-piracy stuff is added by the distributor, not by the software developer. In this case, Atari distributed Civ3, but as of last week or so has sold the right to distribute Civ games in the future. No word yet on who the buyer was.

[Occhidiangela]

[rant]

And those folks at Activision dare to waste precious oxygen?&nbsp; B)

[/rant]
[right][snapback]61951[/snapback][/right]

How disappointing, I had thought that a certain amount of "this is the industry standard" had arisen. (Nice machine, by the way.)

Seems to me we are in yet another swing of the pendulum. For a while, some games had a bit of protection, the "innovative" crackers have had a go, so the gaming industry reacts with draconian methods. The counter to their methods, per Bolty's post, is of course already proliferating.

Strikes me as an unfortunate relationship between the industry and the customers that. Due to the nature of the beast, this cycle will probably remain, a continual "do loop."

Now what I know best about hacking regards golf. :) I can make my own clubs, but what I can't do is change the course. In PC games, the course can be changed by the player far too often and "easily."

Occhi

[Munkay]

Both the EA story and the Bloodlines story result from marketing/management pressure big companies are under.

Sadly the standard has become a time crunch that leaves cames far from where they should be when they are released. [insert a rant about 'patch it later' mentality to conserve money, hit deadlines, and lower cost][/rant].

Its interesting to see what happens when big business takes over niche markets like video games. It seems to either be very good (great customer service, games being released 'when they're done' not on deadlines) or very bad ('patch it later' games, overprotective measures against pirating).

At least it keeps live interesting,

Cheers,

Munk

[whyBish]

I bought Civ3 expecting to play multi-player.
I waited for a multiplayer patch.

Then an add-on pack with multiplayer was announced. :angry:

I haven't touched a full price game for a long time. Rather than spending money on WoW I went out and bought 29 games in the budget bin for the same price as 3 months WoW.

[Rhydderch Hael]

I have Bloodlines, and am running it on an HP Pavilion notebook with 384 MB RAM (listed 512, but the 128 MB ATI Radeon 9000 IGP is shared memory, of course) on a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 that cooks my desk surface nicely.

All in all, meets the requirements. And runs.

At first, I was (and am still, to a degree) plagued by stuttering framerates and audio play as the hard disk is accessing components in-game, and I will get an occassional crash whenever the bloodrat goes to feed or gets killed (I suspect as a result of the dramatic lighting change that occurs in either event). But it is playable, and isn't killing my computer.

The trick is I can't seem to get my Win XP to recognize the need nor locations for driver updates, and have been trying to download the update packages manually. The ATI driver update I downloaded isn't recognized, so I still have an out-of-date driver governing the game. Then again, the latest driver info makes no mention of any fixes for this particular game, which implies the latest drivers are not "late" enough.

I'll have to wait for a new driver update and/or Activision to release a patch in order to see if the crash goes bye-bye and the stutter drops away.

— Rhydderch Hael, Tremere fledgling.

[Rhydderch Hael]

...Note: the program cannot be configured from a launch menu or something (like other games), if you want to change the resolution the game runs in, you have to manipulate the registry...

Umm, I'm able to switch resolution and graphics settings from in-game menus (though the resolution changes will only occur when you reboot the game).

Did you imply the copy in question is not an English-language version? That may be the issue. Somebody in the company may have not known when and where to stop translating stuff, or the non-English ones were made from a different build of the game. Anyhoo, I cannot imagine a translated version of the game will be quite the same experience, because the subtleties of language that convey humor are easily masked and misconstrued when crossing language barriers...

...and the game is damned well funny. The humor comes in any and all varieties and levels— from sight gags to crass parody to dry wit, and even breakthroughs of the fourth wall. You have GTA-like radio commercials, you get crude yet funny bits of advice in a tutorial run by Smilin' Jack, and there's always that Malkavian wackiness of an amusing sort (of your own character's dialogue— should you choose to become a Malkavian vampire— being just one example).

All in all, the game reminds you often enough that while you may be dead, you're not buried. Though I imagine playing a Nosferatu may not be quite as funny, since you have to hide from public view all too often, making casual conversation all the more difficult.

[Moldran]

Anyway, there are no-CD cracks for Civ3 out there. But the fact that you're forced to get them to be able to enjoy the game you PAID for is irritating beyond belief.

Yep. And in Germany, using programs to get around copy-protection mechanisms is now illegal *even if you legally purchased your copy of the game*. Nice, eh?

[Armin]

Umm, I'm able to switch resolution and graphics settings from in-game menus (though the resolution changes will only occur when you reboot the game).

Did you imply the copy in question is not an English-language version?
[right][snapback]62018[/snapback][/right]

Yep, and it seems that is the reason why the other version our roleplaying friend has is the only one running: He's from Luxemburg and bought an import :D

One more reason why I never buy localized games. Lucky me... ;)

In my other friend's german version, you're unable to reach any menu in which to switch resolution - it crashes before (or starts, but does not produce any monitor output)

I'm still extremely reluctant to order a US version though...

[pakman]

I have Bloodlines and it works on my computer...somewhat. I have well over the min and suggested req's to play the game and it still runs very choppy. If anything, I should not be able to run HL2, but I run that game with no problems whatsoever. Knowing Troika, it's going to be a long time before a patch comes out.

My system spec for those wondering:

AMD Athlon XP 2800+
256MB Radeo 9800 Pro
Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS
nForce 2 Motherboard
512 MB PC2700 RAM

MY views on piracy protection are this, they suck. The only way to really prevent piracy is to do what Valve did with HL2, make people unlock through the internet. But then again that brings up the point of some people not having a suitable connection.

This protection crap pisses me off. I cannot play one UbiSoft game without getting a no-cd crack, e.g., Splinter Cell, Uru, Far Cry, etc. The software they put on these game cds does not like my CD-RW drive. I didn't even have Daemon tools when I tried to install and play these games.

[Crusader]

Bloodlines runs for me, be it choppy. I found the most puzzling part that I had to deinstall CloneCD for it to work (but it didn't mind Daemon tools and Alcohol 120%). Go figure.

[Drasca]

In my other friend's german version, you're unable to reach any menu in which to switch resolution - it crashes before (or starts, but does not produce any monitor output)

I'm still extremely reluctant to order a US version though...
[right][snapback]62054[/snapback][/right]

I have US version and am having the same problem. Safe mode is supposed to set the game to 800x600 resolution and solve the problem, but there is still no output.

I have well over the system requirements:

P4 2.8 Ghz CPU
1.5 Gb ram
GeForce Ti 4600 128 meg ram

I am downloading the most recent drivers, though this should not be necessary as my drivers are only 8 months old for a 2+? year old product.

EDIT: Installed most recent nvidia drivers, rebooted, and tried it.

Works now.

[Rhydderch Hael]

I am downloading the most recent drivers, though this should not be necessary as my drivers are only 8 months old for a 2+? year old product. ...

Fallacy of relative time in the computer world. Eight month old drivers may as well be eight years old if the product in contention happens to be a few weeks old.

I have now patched my WinXP up to Service Pack 2, and haven't crashed out of the game yet.

Still, my biggest problem may be a driver issue (and am still unable to get the new driver package to recognize my current IGP). The problem comes in the form of decals. The game decals a whole bunch of stuff over the environment skins of the map: hadbills/flyers, graffitti, and blood splatter from the gun battles. I'll be able to see these decals only when looking straight-on at them: as soon as I strafe or turn, the decals disappear. Mind you, these are the decals— not the skins— so it's literally the inconsequential eye-candy that's affected.

[Jarulf]

Yep. And in Germany, using programs to get around copy-protection mechanisms is now illegal *even if you legally purchased your copy of the game*. Nice, eh?
[right][snapback]62042[/snapback][/right]

But itis not really a copy protection. It is an access protection. You can copy the CD with no problem at all regardless of if there is emulators or not on your computer. It is accessing the game that it protects and hence it should not fall under copy protection.

One can possibly argue that it does bot, that is that some copy protection is tied to the access control, but that is in my opinion a way to just sneaking in protection for things you are not really meant to have protection on. This was actually noted in the new proposal for Swedish copyright law (due to EU directive). That it was ONLY copy-protection and its circumvention that is protected. Not for example access control. In addition, if some protection did more than prevent copying, it would NOT get the protection from circumvention since that would give the copyright holder far to much power. So basically they said that it is up to the copyright holder to either make just a copy-protection and get protection from circumvention, or tie it with other things such as access control and lose the protection. I think that is sound reasoning. To be really nitpicking, it is about circumventing any protection that deals with a right the copyright holder has, so not strictly just copying but access and use is not an exclusive right to the copyright holder so is not protected.

[Taem]

But itis not really a copy protection. It is an access protection. You can copy the CD with no problem at all regardless of if there is emulators or not on your computer. It is accessing the game that it protects and hence it should not fall under copy protection.

One can possibly argue that it does bot, that is that some copy protection is tied to the access control, but that is in my opinion a way to just sneaking in protection for things you are not really meant to have protection on. This was actually noted in the new proposal for Swedish copyright law (due to EU directive). That it was ONLY copy-protection and its circumvention that is protected. Not for example access control. In addition, if some protection did more than prevent copying, it would NOT get the protection from circumvention since that would give the copyright holder far to much power. So&nbsp; basically they said that it is up to the copyright holder to either make just a copy-protection and get protection from circumvention, or tie it with other things such as access control and lose the protection. I think that is sound reasoning. To be really nitpicking, it is about circumventing any protection that deals with a right the copyright holder has, so not strictly just copying but access and use is not an exclusive right to the copyright holder so is not protected.
[right][snapback]62636[/snapback][/right]

Yes I see that from a legal standpoint, but standing here from my perspective I see it as a nuisance I should not have to burden. The software company I gave a portion of my monies to allows me the use of their software, however no where does it say their software will permanently "disable" one of my peripheral drives with a spinning CD while their program is in use! I hardly feel any sort of circumvention or copy-protection should be allowed to take over MY drives without MY permission. There should be some sort of warning label on the discs that states, "WARNING: so long as you use this software, the drive containing this disc will be unusable for the duration of time you use said software." No thank-you! Whenever I get a chance, I get ISO's and mount images or cracks if absolutely necessary. I really can't stand the "CD must be in the drive to play" rules, and I question the legality of it in regards to taking over your peripheral drive.

[Jarulf]

Yes I see that from a legal standpoint, but standing here from my perspective I see it as a nuisance I should not have to burden.&nbsp; The software company I gave a portion of my monies to allows me the use of their software, however no where does it say their software will permanently "disable" one of my peripheral drives with a spinning CD while their program is in use!&nbsp; I hardly feel any sort of circumvention or copy-protection should be allowed to take over MY drives without MY permission.&nbsp; There should be some sort of warning label on the discs that states, "WARNING: so long as you use this software, the drive containing this disc will be unusable for the duration of time you use said software."&nbsp; No thank-you!&nbsp; Whenever I get a chance, I get ISO's and mount images or cracks if absolutely necessary.&nbsp; I really can't stand the "CD must be in the drive to play" rules, and I question the legality of it in regards to taking over your peripheral drive.
[right][snapback]62637[/snapback][/right]

I think we actually agree. I was just commenting on the "circumvention of copyprotection illegal in Germany" and said that we do NOT have such a case.

In my opinion, what we have is a faulty program. A program should happily coexist with other programs on my computer and not interfer with basic Windows functions and so on. Demanding that you should not be able to run other programs at the same time is just stupid and unjustified (although I can see their motivation) since you are supposed to have many programs installed and also running. If they don't like it, don't make programs for Windows.