Why we should allow performance enhancing drugs

[Fragbait]

Hi.

I just stumbled across this article about cheating ethics / drug use in sport.
Although I'm aware that this is not an entirely new discussion topic, I found this to be a good read and well worth the time.
Disclaimer: This is not to say that everything in the article represents my opinion. Please feel free to shape your own, if you haven't yet.


Greetings, Fragbait

[--Pete]

Hi,

I find the whole thing somewhat funny. In a few years, the whole problem will be blown away. Already implants are allowing people to control computers by thought alone. The technology is rapidly developing to the point where "The Six Million Dollar Man" will be possible. Athletic prostheses will not be far behind. A conversation of the future:

Coach, "He's not cheating. Joe damaged his hips, knees and ankles in training. We just got him the best surgery money can buy."

Official, "So, the solution was to buy him complete new legs from the hips down?"

Coach, "Well, yeah -- that's what the docs said would work best."

Official, "And the fact that he can now run a one minute mile doesn't bother you?"

Coach, "That's just the normal progress in sports -- records were meant to be broken."

Power lifting makes my mind boggle. I keep visulizing a front loader hooked to a brain.

Maybe the most telling statement in the article is, "Elite athletes can earn tens of millions of dollars every year in prize money alone, and millions more in sponsorships and endorsements." But would getting rid of the money get rid of the "winning is everything" mentality?

Perhaps sports should join reality television in the dung heap of 'entertainment' not worth watching. Or perhaps it already has.

--Pete

[Nystul]

I don't know enough about the current medical aspects to know how realistic strict enforcement could be. But even if banning the drugs is completely unenforcible, I think you probably have to ban many of them anyway.

The author here is mostly focusing on the Olympics and high profile, international competition. However, the real impact of sports is that virtually everyone plays them casually, and an awful lot of people play competitively at least for some period of time. They are part of the way we grow up and learn to live in a competitive society.

I get a bit squeamish about taking drugs. I would not want to go into work and have my boss encouraging me to take a stimulant (much less something more drastic) to improve my performance. If my work happened to be professional sports, I still wouldn't want that. I would want it even less for school kids to get that pressure from their teammates or coaches.

When you take something that can have a drastic impact on performance, and you make it a sanctioned part of the sport, it puts a lot of pressure on all of the participants to do it just to stay in the sport. Even if we are talking about aspirin, there is a point at which it gets very unsafe (it's probably fortunate that the degree of sports improvement from aspirin isn't greater than it is, or we would have 10 year olds overdosing all over the place). The rules exist for a reason, and in my opinion they have been enforced too loosely at every level.

[kandrathe]

Hi.

I just stumbled across this article about cheating ethics / drug use in sport.
Although I'm aware that this is not an entirely new discussion topic, I found this to be a good read and well worth the time.
Disclaimer: This is not to say that everything in the article represents my opinion. Please feel free to shape your own, if you haven't yet.
Greetings, Fragbait
[right][snapback]62929[/snapback][/right]

Well, take baseball for instance. When multi-million dollar sluggers (*cough* Barry Bonds *cough*) are bringing in the home runs and thrilling the hometown crowd the ticket sales soar. But, is it fair to legit Joe average superstar who is batting 350, and getting a fair share of legit HR's? Is it fair to the opposing team who does not have the drug enhanced batting gorilla? Can you feel good about winning the World Series, when it was "won" via these unscrupulous means. Corked bat, harumph. We got corked biceps.

If we want professional sports to devolve into the WWF for entertainment value only, well then sure. Let's all use genetics, steroids, and modern miracle treatments to design 800lb linemen, and beasts who can swat a ball 500 yards in warm up. Entertaining, sure. Competition, no.

[Doc]

Well, take baseball for instance.  When multi-million dollar sluggers (*cough* Barry Bonds *cough*) are bringing in the home runs and thrilling the hometown crowd the ticket sales soar.  But, is it fair to legit Joe average superstar who is batting 350, and getting a fair share of legit HR's?  Is it fair to the opposing team who does not have the drug enhanced batting gorilla?  Can you feel good about winning the World Series, when it was "won" via these unscrupulous means.  Corked bat, harumph.  We got corked biceps.

If we want professional sports to devolve into the WWF for entertainment value only, well then sure.  Let's all use genetics, steroids, and modern miracle treatments to design 800lb linemen, and beasts who can swat a ball 500 yards in warm up.  Entertaining, sure.  Competition, no.
[right][snapback]62945[/snapback][/right]

800 pound lineman? From steroids? Daaaaaamn. I think his penis would actually implode and form a black hole. His sperm count would register as antimatter.

Long ago, in SCA tourneys... Mead was our performance enhancing drug. We would get slobbering drunk and beat the unholy hell out of one another.

[--Pete]

Hi,

If we want professional sports to devolve into the WWF for entertainment value only, well then sure.  Let's all use genetics, steroids, and modern miracle treatments to design 800lb linemen, and beasts who can swat a ball 500 yards in warm up.  Entertaining, sure.  Competition, no.[right][snapback]62945[/snapback][/right]

But that is exactly the main part of the problem. People don't watch sports for the competition, they watch for the entertainment. After all, why not? When the person leading your team two weeks ago now plays for the opponents, when none of the players live within a thousand miles of the city they 'represent', when the main motivation is not love of the game but money, what else is left but entertainment? Surely not 'team spirit', not 'rooting for the home team'.

Professional sports is an oxymoron. When I look up 'sport' I find things like "1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in". But when millions are at stake, I doubt that much recreation or diversion is left. At those prices, you'll always find someone who will take a chance to get whatever edge they can. And you will find people gladly helping them by developing new and better (i.e., less detectable) drugs.

I don't see the big deal. We've long since come to accept and ignore unethical, even criminal behavior by our political leaders. Why should the antics of a bunch of overpaid jocks offend us? It isn't as if any of that nonsense mattered any more than the WWF or a sitcom. Sportsmanship? That was an endangered species when Vince Lombardi entered the scene, and he and his ilk killed it off forever.

--Pete

[Count Duckula]

800 pound lineman? From steroids? Daaaaaamn. I think his penis would actually implode and form a black hole. His sperm count would register as antimatter.
[right][snapback]62946[/snapback][/right]

I didn't know it was possible to snort an almond into your nasal cavity.

I learned about sports and steriods from Fragbait and my own reflexive nasal functions from Doc.

And that's my contribution to this here thread.

...anybody got a pair of tweezers? >_<

[Fragbait]

Hiya,

I dug a bit deeper, and came up with some more food for thought.
And to tell you what I think:

While it may be true that professional competitive sport is the freak show / meat inspection of humanity, I still don't think that it should be permitted to balance genetic advantages with drugs or alien hormones. This would be a one-way strategy, because quickly the genetic superior athlets would see their pelts float away and start to take those enhancers, too. What we would have then, would be a health risking, gender denying and humaneness lacking (Your 6 million dollar man example springs to mind ;) ) artificial situation which hasn't got anything in common with the sportive, fair and competitive mind that we aspire as an utopia.

Greetings, Fragbait

[ShadowHM]

A counter point to that was raised in this opinion piece in the New York Times. While it speaks about Americans, I don't believe the issue is confined to the U.S.A., unfortunately.

<---goes off to pour a second cup of her favourite performance enhancing drug

[Walkiry]

I find the whole thing somewhat funny.&nbsp; In a few years, the whole problem will be blown away.&nbsp; Already implants are allowing people to control computers by thought alone.&nbsp; The technology is rapidly developing to the point where "The Six Million Dollar Man" will be possible.[right][snapback]62930[/snapback][/right]

This reminded me of a conversation I had with my brother at some point, when the new tech on swimsuits (the ones that everyone seems to wear now, that have a grooved texture modelled after sharkskin) started to show up.

His question was quite simple really, wasn't that the same as a performance enhancing drug? A swimmer wearing these suits sudenly had much less drag and beat their own best times handily. But it wasn't because of a new technique, such as the Fosbury Flop that allowed Dick Fosbury to clear a higher bar in High Jump, but because of a new technology that was clearly enhancing the athlete's performance beyond what he could do, say, naked. And when they were the latest new tech they were a bit on the expensive side, and not everyone was wearing them. Was that an unfair advantage to those that were competing with the traditional speedos on?

Anyone can buy those swims (if they can afford it, haven't checked how much they go for these days), and as Pete says anyone will be able to enhance themselves when the appropiate enhancements are available. Anyone can use those drugs today, and probably we'll have drugs good enough to avoid most if not all secondary effects rather soon, so that's that excuse gone. What then? :)

[Doc]

I didn't know it was possible to snort an almond into your nasal cavity.

I learned about sports and steriods from Fragbait and my own reflexive nasal functions from Doc.

And that's my contribution to this here thread.

...anybody got a pair of tweezers? >_<
[right][snapback]62948[/snapback][/right]

Mods! Mods! Duckie is snorting forum posting enhancing almonds again! It's most unfair to us regular posters.

**Hides coffee** :whistling:

[Munkay]

Anyone can buy those swims (if they can afford it, haven't checked how much they go for these days), and as Pete says anyone will be able to enhance themselves when the appropiate enhancements are available. Anyone can use those drugs today, and probably we'll have drugs good enough to avoid most if not all secondary effects rather soon, so that's that excuse gone. What then? :)
[right][snapback]62961[/snapback][/right]

It's definately a sticky situation. The line between whats 'cheating' and whats 'enhancing' is becoming very blurry. My gut reaction is simply this: Anything synthetically made that enhnaces the physiological make up of a competitor.

As Pete said this will all become moot in a short amount of time. If implants do not sky rocket soon enough, designer drugs that are undetectable will.

I was reading a medical article about synthetic liquid that can be used to replace worn out cartilage. Down the road the synthetic could be replaced with true organic directly from reproduced cells taken from the patient's own joints. Is this cheating? By todays standards probably not. But it brings up an interesting point, for simple regenative procedures will become more and more common. Many top atheletes risk pushing their bodies to the limits. Its accepted that if a severe injury happened, its all over for the athlete. But if you no longer need to worry about the damages of over training, the bar raises itself again.

I bring up the cartilage example simply for the fact that it doesn't seem like a big deal. Compared to mechanical legs that could allow people to run 1 minute miles it isn't. But people don't have a hard time throwing out the extremes when drawing a line.

The future of athletic competition will be interesting at the very least.

Cheers,

Munk

[Fragbait]

The future of athletic competition will be interesting at the very least.
[right][snapback]62964[/snapback][/right]

Hi!

That's true, indeed. To support this, I dug out a news item from the German Mirror. I'm sorry that it's German, but it basically tells of a new method of cheating in sport: an artificial Penis, complete with urin reservoir, urination device and heating. Even the temperature of the urin can be regulated.
:wacko: If this wasn't a real case, it would make me burst out laughing.

Greetings, Fragbait

[Nystul]

Hi!

That's true, indeed. To support this, I dug out a news item from the German Mirror. I'm sorry that it's German, but it basically tells of a new method of cheating in sport: an artificial Penis, complete with urin reservoir, urination device and heating. Even the temperature of the urin can be regulated.
:wacko: If this wasn't a real case, it would make me burst out laughing.

Greetings, Fragbait
[right][snapback]62966[/snapback][/right]

Germany's female swim teams always did look like men, but this is going way too far! :wacko:

[Fragbait]

Germany's female swim teams always did look like men, but this is going way too far!&nbsp; :wacko:
[right][snapback]62967[/snapback][/right]

The Germans, huh ?!



This is Inge deBruijn, a Dutch.

Your Call.


Greetings, Fragbait

[Minionman]

I don't know enough about the current medical aspects to know how realistic strict enforcement could be.&nbsp; But even if banning the drugs is completely unenforcible, I think you probably have to ban many of them anyway.

The author here is mostly focusing on the Olympics and high profile, international competition.&nbsp; However, the real impact of sports is that virtually everyone plays them casually, and an awful lot of people play competitively at least for some period of time.&nbsp; They are part of the way we grow up and learn to live in a competitive society.

I get a bit squeamish about taking drugs.&nbsp; I would not want to go into work and have my boss encouraging me to take a stimulant (much less something more drastic) to improve my performance.&nbsp; If my work happened to be professional sports, I still wouldn't want that.&nbsp; I would want it even less for school kids to get that pressure from their teammates or coaches.

When you take something that can have a drastic impact on performance, and you make it a sanctioned part of the sport, it puts a lot of pressure on all of the participants to do it just to stay in the sport.&nbsp; Even if we are talking about aspirin, there is a point at which it gets very unsafe (it's probably fortunate that the degree of sports improvement from aspirin isn't greater than it is, or we would have 10 year olds overdosing all over the place).&nbsp; The rules exist for a reason, and in my opinion they have been enforced too loosely at every level.
[right][snapback]62933[/snapback][/right]

First post, I wasn't too interested, since I don't watch much sports and don't really care about steroids or other "enhancers", but this post does change some of that.

[Minionman]

800 pound lineman? From steroids? Daaaaaamn. I think his penis would actually implode and form a black hole. His sperm count would register as antimatter.

Long ago, in SCA tourneys... Mead was our performance enhancing drug. We would get slobbering drunk and beat the unholy hell out of one another.
[right][snapback]62946[/snapback][/right]

nit: You mena, negative energy, since antimatter has the same mass as matter, but the point is taken. :P

[Occhidiangela]

Hi,
&nbsp; Sportsmanship?&nbsp; That was an endangered species when Vince Lombardi entered the scene, and he and his ilk killed it off forever.

--Pete
[right][snapback]62947[/snapback][/right]

I'd say you are being a bit hard on Lombardi, since he merely said in a series of pithy commentaries what a great many coaches and athletes had believed for some time. Why else would folks strive for the trophy, the Cup, the prize?

Depending on which sould byte of his one wants to quote, his general assertion is that man is at his best when he has dug deepest into himself in the arena of conflict and staggered off victorious.

He also believed that hard work and intelligent application of one's talent was the path to success, which puts him quite at odds with the general topic of this thread, which is "short cuts" to success that performance enhancing drugs promise. The Oympics and the East Germans are, as I recall, to blame for that rot, not Lombardi.

When I play in a competition, I play to win. When I play funsies, I play for fun.

In either case, winning is fun.

Occhi

[jahcs]

This reminded me of a conversation I had with my brother at some point, when the new tech on swimsuits (the ones that everyone seems to wear now, that have a grooved texture modelled after sharkskin) started to show up.

His question was quite simple really, wasn't that the same as a performance enhancing drug? A swimmer wearing these suits sudenly had much less drag and beat their own best times handily. But it wasn't because of a new technique, such as the Fosbury Flop that allowed Dick Fosbury to clear a higher bar in High Jump, but because of a new technology that was clearly enhancing the athlete's performance beyond what he could do, say, naked. And when they were the latest new tech they were a bit on the expensive side, and not everyone was wearing them. Was that an unfair advantage to those that were competing with the traditional speedos on?

Anyone can buy those swims (if they can afford it, haven't checked how much they go for these days), and as Pete says anyone will be able to enhance themselves when the appropiate enhancements are available. Anyone can use those drugs today, and probably we'll have drugs good enough to avoid most if not all secondary effects rather soon, so that's that excuse gone. What then? :)
[right][snapback]62961[/snapback][/right]

Reminds me of when the clap skate appeared in 1996-97. The ISU approved the skate and the teams that used it at the Olympics completely decimated the traditional skate users and the previous Olympic and World records. It was a case of adapt and upgrade or don't bother stepping on the ice.

BTW: Falling over 7 feet, backwards, onto your shoulders and neck, into a sandpit takes guts.

[Occhidiangela]

Mods! Mods! Duckie is snorting forum posting enhancing almonds again! It's most unfair to us regular posters.

**Hides coffee** :whistling:
[right][snapback]62962[/snapback][/right]

Doc, if coffee were an illegal lurking substance, I'd have been banned bach in the Network 54 days. :P

Occhi