Another Guild Wars Beta Event

[kandrathe]

Guild Wars is up and online at this moment, this friday morning.
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I noticed that the characters inventories are wiped and are all reset to Lvl 1, and the Guild was wiped.

The only Guild maker I know of was in Lion's Arch, do we need to get a party there before we can recreate the Lurker Lounge Guild?

[TaiDaishar]

Level 4 (as of now) Elementalist / Mesmer named Dinoor Darkflame ready and willing to go side by side with the lurkers!

[LochnarITB]

Guild Wars is up and online at this moment, this friday morning.
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When I sat down to the computer today, I thought to myself, "I hope there's not too much to read on the Lounge. I want to go play... World of Warcraft." I had completely forgot (again) that Guild Wars weekend might start today. I guess I won't be there this weekend but hope that I can break free for the next one. Have fun everyone. Whack a few extra baddies for me so they know what to expect when I tear myself away from WoW.

P.S. It would be great to see a report(s), after everyone's limited play time, of how the game is progressing. I would really love to know if there is any change to henchman control to help those of us who tend to not play with real folk (was gonna say solo but that isn't really true with henchman).

[TaiDaishar]

Just a little side note: Don't try to take the direct route to Lion's Arch, if you want to get there complete the missions until you do, the Ruins are a horrible place to be in.

[Wyrm]

P.S. It would be great to see a report(s), after everyone's limited play time, of how the game is progressing.  I would really love to know if there is any change to henchman control to help those of us who tend to not play with real folk (was gonna say solo but that isn't really true with henchman).
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Henchman have been improved a bit. There's still room for improvement, though, as they still tend to walk straight through poison when there's a path right next to them.

You can actually make it through some of the missions with just henchman though. There are still a few where the henchman will be underleveled and you'll have to restart several times because your monk just stood there while being attacked. Oddly enough, there was one mission I tried about 6 times with a party, then said screw it and did it solo with henchman. Got through on the first try.

From what I've played, there's still a bit of balancing to be done with the enemies. Often times if you're against a group of more than 3 you're in for a lot of problems, especially with a group of monks/mesmers. Nothing quite like having 5 hexes on you all at once. Enemies are also still a little too powerful. It's one thing to go up against a fighter with really high hp, but when a mage can get in your face and stay there for a while, there's something wrong. In all fairness though, that's a problem with quite a few games, not just this one. Enemy mages always have a ton of hp while allied ones die fast. That must be an unwritten rule in games.

My Warrior/Monk did fairly well, once I actually decided on a skill/attribute plan rather than trying to be a jack-of-all trades. He made it to level 12, and got through the quests that weren't in the last free weekend (for us non-pre-order people). There was no Lounge guild this weekend, which is ok since I only new of 2-3 other people from here that actually played this weekend. Got invited into the Realms Beyond guild with/by Drasca early this evening, which was kinda nice for the few hours left.

Well, there's still a little bit of time left for the weekend so I might as well do some sightseeing.

[TaiDaishar]

P.S. It would be great to see a report(s), after everyone's limited play time, of how the game is progressing.  I would really love to know if there is any change to henchman control to help those of us who tend to not play with real folk (was gonna say solo but that isn't really true with henchman).
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I didn't try the henchmen much though from my limited experience with them, I am not very anxious to try them again, I always prefered real players over some dumb AI that seems to do all the worst possible things...

I would REALLY like to have more customizations options right from the start, whether it be the player model itself, the skill or even making the NPC merchants sell dyes for low price, people just look too much alike but aside from that, the game seems to progress nicely, when playing the E3 For Everyone event I saw some skills that always made you wonder why they even exist as they were either the same skill with a different animation or simply EXTREMELY situational.

Now however, I have not witnessed any skill that struck me as being useless, granted I havn't seen much since I didn't even reach Lion's Arch and only got 1 character (had?) which is an Elementalist/Mesmer.

The fast paced action of this game reminds a FPS very much but not in the way of simply being faster with the mouse, more like with the mind, one move can mean the death, or triumph, of the battle, much more than it was at the first beta event.

Overall, the greatest progress that I have seen in the game is with the skills (and items, to an extent), the skills now all seem to have an advantage and/or a disadvantage to them that differs them from the other skills which makes deciding what skills you'll get for the next mission much harder and quite more enjoyable for me at least.

[kandrathe]

I didn't try the henchmen much though from my limited experience with them, I am not very anxious to try them again, I always prefered real players over some dumb AI that seems to do all the worst possible things...

Although, henchmen are not as prone to rush in and get themselves killed, or drop out of the party after they get themselves killed to avoid the -15% death penalty, or just randomly drop out of the party during the first five minutes. But, a good party of thoughtful players is enjoyable.

I would REALLY like to have more customizations options right from the start, whether it be the player model itself, the skill or even making the NPC merchants sell dyes for low price, people just look too much alike but aside from that, the game seems to progress nicely, when playing the E3 For Everyone event I saw some skills that always made you wonder why they even exist as they were either the same skill with a different animation or simply EXTREMELY situational.

Yes, I agree. Not just visual. For example, allow warriors to select their primary weapon rather than have all warriors start with a hammer and hammer skills. If the initial skills are weighed towards hammers, then most warriors will invest in the same ways leading to more homogeneity.

The fast paced action of this game reminds a FPS very much but not in the way of simply being faster with the mouse, more like with the mind, one move can mean the death, or triumph, of the battle, much more than it was at the first beta event.

Similiar to Diablo II, although as of late (in DII) the monster AI and power has been boosted to keep up with Super Weapons of Death™. I'm finding that the tactics are similiar in that one must be careful to draw off and tackle one monster pack at a time.

Overall, the greatest progress that I have seen in the game is with the skills (and items, to an extent), the skills now all seem to have an advantage and/or a disadvantage to them that differs them from the other skills which makes deciding what skills you'll get for the next mission much harder and quite more enjoyable for me at least.

My biggest worry is that the choice of skills for some characters, (like ranger), are heavily weighted toward an attribute (like Beast Master), while the bread and butter skills (like Marksmanship, or Expertise) are slighted in variety.

[Wyrm]

The fast paced action of this game reminds a FPS very much but not in the way of simply being faster with the mouse, more like with the mind, one move can mean the death, or triumph, of the battle, much more than it was at the first beta event.
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Actually, the game goes much better (and easier) at a slow pace. If you take the time for monsters to walk on patrol a bit and separate from each other, you can easily take them down, as opposed to having someone on your team see a group of 10 monsters and rush in, dragging the rest of the team with them.

There are a few things about the GUI that would be nice to add/change. A stats window would be really nice, something that can show you the total armor you have, rather than having to add up in your head from the inventory page. Also, something showing the amount of damage you'll do with a normal attack (before armor) would help, especially when a lot of the weapons come with modifiers that have damage +/-X% and the fact that some of your attributes will enhance damage (ie swordsmanship for warriors, marksmanship for rangers, etc.). At least, I never saw these, so if they're there, oops.

Also, it would be nice if there was a "Clear UI" button that would kill all of the open windows and the chat/messages that appear. Similarly, it would be nice if you could close the party window, or at least shrink it so it doesn't take up as much space in the ui. While we're on the subject, I didn't see a button option to cancel your current target. That would help things a bit when you want to quickly switch from healing an ally to healing yourself, without having to select yourself on the party window.

The only problems I ever had with control was when a group of warriors would surround an enemy and I'd have to hover over the area to get the list selection so I could target the enemy instead of an ally.

The last thing I'll say for now is that it would be nice to be able to issue commands to the henchman (this is a game based on strategy, after all). Nothing complex, but a retreat command would help a lot.

[kandrathe]

Actually, the game goes much better (and easier) at a slow pace.  If you take the time for monsters to walk on patrol a bit and separate from each other, you can easily take them down, as opposed to having someone on your team see a group of 10 monsters and rush in, dragging the rest of the team with them.

There are a few things about the GUI that would be nice to add/change.  A stats window would be really nice, something that can show you the total armor you have, rather than having to add up in your head from the inventory page.  Also, something showing the amount of damage you'll do with a normal attack (before armor) would help, especially when a lot of the weapons come with modifiers that have damage +/-X% and the fact that some of your attributes will enhance damage (ie swordsmanship for warriors, marksmanship for rangers, etc.).  At least, I never saw these, so if they're there, oops.

Also, it would be nice if there was a "Clear UI" button that would kill all of the open windows and the chat/messages that appear.  Similarly, it would be nice if you could close the party window, or at least shrink it so it doesn't take up as much space in the ui.  While we're on the subject, I didn't see a button option to cancel your current target.  That would help things a bit when you want to quickly switch from healing an ally to healing yourself, without having to select yourself on the party window.

The only problems I ever had with control was when a group of warriors would surround an enemy and I'd have to hover over the area to get the list selection so I could target the enemy instead of an ally.

The last thing I'll say for now is that it would be nice to be able to issue commands to the henchman (this is a game based on strategy, after all).  Nothing complex, but a retreat command would help a lot.
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I used the C key to target closest monster alot, then tab to cycle, or try to click on the one I want, when I have time. For allies, you can click on their name in the party roster, so when I'm acting as team healer I just click on the life bars that are low or dropping fast and intervene. Many times in heated battles I am unaware of what is going on as I'm overly focused on keeping the team alive.

You are spot on with the new UI issues, but it seems to be a work in progress. They went from an overly cumbersome, UI with alot of info on it, to one that is too simplified. There I would like to have the option of more detailed stats menus, when I'm in the mood. But, for a quick glance the smaller ones do nicely.

As for controlling Henchman AI, it could be as simple as having Attack (the way it is now), Defend (attack the monster than is attacking me), and Retreat (save yourself at all costs) modes.

[TriggerHappy]

There are a few things about the GUI that would be nice to add/change.  A stats window would be really nice, something that can show you the total armor you have, rather than having to add up in your head from the inventory page.

That is not how armor works in Guild Wars. It is not added up. The damage is location based (like in Morrowind), each piece of armor is used individually when your character is hit. A "roll" determines where you get hit. For example, if you had torso armor with a 50 rating, but gloves with a rating of 30, you'd take more damage to your arms than to your torso from the same attack. That's why it's important to keep armor rating high on every piece.

Also, something showing the amount of damage you'll do with a normal attack (before armor) would help, especially when a lot of the weapons come with modifiers that have damage +/-X% and the fact that some of your attributes will enhance damage (ie swordsmanship for warriors, marksmanship for rangers, etc.).

Your "normal attack" is whatever's listed on your weapon. You'll do that much damage if you meet the weapon's requirement in it's governing attribute. Beyond meeting this requirement, you get a 7% bonus to damage for every rank you have above it.

Example: you have a sword that requires 8 in Swordsmanship to be used (if you don't meet this requirement, you'll do pitiful damage with it). If you have 8 in Swordsmanship, you'll do the stated damage on the weapon (before armor or other modifiers). If you have 10 in Swordsmanship, you'll do 14% more damage (again before armor). This is the same for Marksmanship.

FYI, Strength (the warrior primary attribute) only comes into effect when using attack skills (no effect on normal attack). And only provides (edit: forgot that it got nerfed) 1% armor penetration per rank. It's alot more useful to have high weapon mastery.

The last thing I'll say for now is that it would be nice to be able to issue commands to the henchman (this is a game based on strategy, after all).  Nothing complex, but a retreat command would help a lot.

This is promised by the developers ... but, we'll see.

[TaiDaishar]

I've done a little reading and what Anet said that should be in this event was dynamic quests.

I, myself, did not encounter such missions where you could actually decide which way the storyline will go but I have read about a mission, for example, that if you have a ranger in it, you can stop an assassination to a main character.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Example: you have a sword that requires 8 in Swordsmanship to be used (if you don't meet this requirement, you'll do pitiful damage with it).  If you have 8 in Swordsmanship, you'll do the stated damage on the weapon (before armor or other modifiers).  If you have 10 in Swordsmanship, you'll do 14% more damage (again before armor).  This is the same for Marksmanship.

Interesting.

What about weapons with no requirements - anything on that?

[TaiDaishar]

Interesting.

What about weapons with no requirements - anything on that?
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I guess then that every point gives +7% since the req is 0...

However, I wonder how it is for non warrior weapons like Staves, Wands, Rods, etc', does any point in the corresponding attribute (aka Fire for a staff that deals fire damage) also does that?

[TriggerHappy]

I guess then that every point gives +7% since the req is 0...

That's correct.
This is balanced by the fact that no requirement weapons offer such low damages (but can be used by all classes, not just warrior/ranger) that even 84% more damage (rank 12) will stil not be anywhere as good as say a rank 4 requirement Weapon.

However, I wonder how it is for non warrior weapons like Staves, Wands, Rods, etc', does any point in the corresponding attribute (aka Fire for a staff that deals fire damage) also does that?
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Yes, this is exactly the same for staves/wands/etc. If you don't meet the requirement (say you're using an Air wand but have Fire magice instead or just don't have Air high enough), then you will be doing about 1/5 of the maximum damage. It's important to find a wand/staff that corresponds to the attributes you've chosen.

Also, note that all classes can use all weapons. The problem is that a character without the required rank in the governing attribute of a weapon will never be effective with it, doing minimal damage. So for example, a Ranger can use Apply Poison (preparation) and then deliver that poison with a Wand, he'll never do the stated damage on the Wand unless he's also a secondary caster with the required attribute and rank.


P.S.
I think some of the posters in this thread highly underestimate the Ranger. The class is capable of outdoing even Elementalists in damage output, with the right combination of Ranger skills, a secondary class and a bow with good rate of fire. For example, a Ranger/Mesmer or a Ranger/Elementalist utilising just one skill from the secondary class can output horrendous damage. Even more if one finds very powerful "combos" utilising both the primary and secondary classes. Unfortunately I am not at liberty to reveal these for competitive purposes ;) .

[Swiss Mercenary]

That's correct. 
This is balanced by the fact that no requirement weapons offer such low damages (but can be used by all classes, not just warrior/ranger) that even 84% more damage (rank 12) will stil not be anywhere as good as say a rank 4 requirement Weapon.
Yes, this is exactly the same for staves/wands/etc.  If you don't meet the requirement (say you're using an Air wand but have Fire magice instead or just don't have Air high enough), then you will be doing about 1/5 of the maximum damage.  It's important to find a wand/staff that corresponds to the attributes you've chosen.

Humm... The bow that I sold for ~100 gold was pretty awesome then - 28 max damage, or so, no requirement, 7% ias, increased posion duration.

[SoulEdge]

P.S. It would be great to see a report(s), after everyone's limited play time, of how the game is progressing.  I would really love to know if there is any change to henchman control to help those of us who tend to not play with real folk (was gonna say solo but that isn't really true with henchman).

No direct control over henchmen/pets/minions thus far, but playing with just henchmen is possible, I have done most exploring and a couple of the earlier missions with just henchmen.

The earlier missions are easy, but surprising enough mission that I completed in the first attempt with just henchmen actually took a few attempts when I teamed with real players. Probably just play style differences, for when I am with just henchmen, I go real slow, observe and analyse the situation before I make a move, but when in a team, there is a tendency to just gogogo.

I do find henchman level a bit on the low side for later missions and explorable areas, making them not as durable when faced with hard hitting enemies that are a few levels above them. Can offset this by having own character being a few levels higher than the enemies in those areas but then the experience gain will get a hit.

All these from a perspective of an offensive spell caster with no means to heal and skills selection not aimed to be a tank or involve in melee.


I enjoy exploring the explorable areas with henchmen, just for the sake of exploring as well as to gain some items, experience and gold, and now that Arena.net has added many quests in those areas, my enjoyment has greatly increased!


EDIT: I guess it's worth pointing out that I have some sort of control over the henchmen behaviour by using different ways of combat engagement, i.e. target calling will send my henchmen charging towards the enemy, pulling with a range attack/spell (and run back to kill zone if necessary) will have the enemy come to me and the henchmen engaging when the enemy is within their awareness area.

[TriggerHappy]

Humm... The bow that I sold for ~100 gold was pretty awesome then - 28 max damage, or so, no requirement, 7% ias, increased posion duration.
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:huh:

No requirement on a rare bow?

Never saw one with damage that high and no requirements in all the time I played (every weekend since E34E). Here's hoping they correct such imbalance by release. 'Cause this bow would allow one to do full damage without *any* investment into Marksmanship.

Have you tried it yourself, by the way?

[Drasca]

:huh:

No requirement on a rare bow?

Never saw one with damage that high and no requirements in all the time I played (every weekend since E34E).  Here's hoping they correct such imbalance by release.  'Cause this bow would allow one to do full damage without *any* investment into Marksmanship.

Have you tried it yourself, by the way?
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Its possible it was a short bow, or the like.

Different bow types have different ranges and marksmanship requirements. That part is for certain. Attack speed differences... not sure.

Triggerhappy, what was your guild wars name? I used Mentat Drasca, Mesmer/Warrior for most of last weekend.

[Wyrm]

P.S.
I think some of the posters in this thread highly underestimate the Ranger.
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Actually, I think Ranger has been my favorite class so far. I made a Ranger/Necromancer during the world preview event, and was having a great time, even though my animals kept dying on me, giving me the death penalty. If I manage to get a job before the release, I'll probably pre-order from EB to get the Ithas Bow freebie. I never tried Apply Poison when I was a Ranger, I always liked the area effect of Incindiary Arrows better, but after having seen what poison does to characters this past weekend, I may have to change my mind.

Unfortunately I am not at liberty to reveal these for competitive purposes ;) .

Heh, well, hopefully once the game is released you won't mind revealing a few "secrets" to us poor fools that find ourselves incapable of an intuitive thought. Although, I do have an idea of some secondary skills that could work wonders, like using Apply Poison and a Necromancer/Mesmer skill that also has life degeneration (or even the elementalist's immolate) to give monsters life degeneration of -9 or thereabouts. And I did enjoy using a bow on my warrior on occasion for the ranged smiting ability (could take off quite a large portion of an undead's life bar without ever getting near them).

Anyways... thanks for the info about how armor works, throughout the whole weekend I had pretty much been ignoring all the armor except my body armor and leggings, I guess I won't be able to do that anymore.

PS, my main character (W/Mo) finished at level 13, after about 23 1/2 hours.

PPS, was anyone else around for the dev team finale at the end of the event?

[Wyrm]

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*sweatdrop* I never even thought of that... oh well. Most of the time I was just using the T button since someone else, who usually knew what they were doing, was doing targetting.

For allies, you can click on their name in the party roster

That wasn't my problem. The problem I had was when I wanted to untarget completely so nothing was targeted. I know it's not a big issue, but I like seeing as much of the landscape as I can when I'm wandering around.

As for controlling Henchman AI, it could be as simple as having Attack (the way it is now), Defend (attack the monster than is attacking me), and Retreat (save yourself at all costs) modes.

That's exactly what I was thinking of, or even having a defend the mages/monks option, since enemy ai targets them first.