Druids' Balance Tree

[Zarathustra]

Hey everyone. I've been playing a Druid since I purchased the game, and figured I'd spark some discussion over the skills, balance, etc. I also have a few gripes with some changes that've been made, but anyway, on to the meat...


Hurricane
I finally got this spell, after having never seen it ingame. I had no idea it was the same as the lightning spells the Harpies in the Charred Vale cast, and I'm glad it is. It looks spectacular. The last D&D Druid I played was all about Call Lightning, so this brought back some fond memories.

Now, the gripe about it; it's the highest skill in the Balance tree, yet nowhere near as useful as the others. A few level 20 mobs can easily whittle down the channelling bar to nothing against my level 45 Druid, meaning he gets about three seconds (approx. 150 dam) against the enemies in the storm. In party play it would work well while companions tie enemies up, but I've found more often than not it draws more aggro than it's worth. Blizzard saw fit to change this into a channelled spell rather than an instant cast, and I disagree with the change. If anything, I'd like to see it instant cast but with a longer cooldown. It would retain its usefulness while not being overpowered. Considering the damage is a pittance, I don't think that's out of line.

Granted, I'll still be using it. Often. Because it looks cool. Period.

I'm just a bit bummed that the ultimate spell in the tree has been found through experience to be a novelty at best.


Moonfire/Starfire
Staples of a Druid's arsenal. I'll often cast Starfire first, then give an immediate Moonfire for the damage over time. Spamming Moonfire is a viable strategy for dishing out heaps of damage ONLY if the fight is determined to be short and you have ample mana to spare. Otherwise it's not worth the cost in your mana pool.


Entangling Roots
Amazing crowd-control, but I'm a bit sketchy on just what causes a release from the roots. The spell description reads that "damage may interrupt". This would cause one to infer that rooting an enemy and then leaving it alone would keep it there for the full duration; not true. I can only speculate that either there's a resistance "roll" every time the spell does damage and a successful resist breaks it. OR the damage of the spell itself is considered for the purposes of possibly releasing the enemy. If the latter is the case, it smells more like a bug than a feature.

Again, time for a gripe. This spell is not useful in Instances at all, in my experience. I've come across many situations where it'd be a great tool while working through an instance, only to realize I'm no "outdoors" for the purpose of the spell. It seems even areas like courtyards in the Scarlet Monastery are considered to be inside (which makes one wonder why similar areas in Stormwind are considered outdoors). Is this the case with all instances? I've yet to try it in the troll instance near Gadgetzan, but I have a stinkin suspicion it would still be considered indoors.


Nature's Grasp
Train this. Devote the talent points to increase its effectiveness. This is a wonderful escape tool when one needs to get some distance from an enemy. Again, its usefulness seems nullified in instances, but out and about it's just too useful to ignore. I've had many situations where this spell has bought me the time I need to get a heal cast upon myself or an ally.


Omen of Clarity
As a Balance Druid, I don't spend as much time in Feral form as some others might. I've found that Omen of Clarity can make my mana pool last a much longer time, especially since I'll usually have a tank along with me. I've found it most effective with a fast weapon like a dagger, but even with a slow staff it's triggered often enough to be worth the one talent point required. In situations where I've run dry on mana, I'll charge in and give a few hits with my staff and instantly have a free casting of a heal or moonfire. Very handy.


Switchshifting
Has anyone found this particularly useful? I just can't justify the talent point cost to gain that slight amount of time between shifting and casting. I've found that the delay upon returning to NE form is barely noticeable. I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on this.

[Quark]

Again, time for a gripe.  This spell is not useful in Instances at all, in my experience.  I've come across many situations where it'd be a great tool while working through an instance, only to realize I'm no "outdoors" for the purpose of the spell.  It seems even areas like courtyards in the Scarlet Monastery are considered to be inside (which makes one wonder why similar areas in Stormwind are considered outdoors).  Is this the case with all instances?  I've yet to try it in the troll instance near Gadgetzan, but I have a stinkin suspicion it would still be considered indoors.

I can't tell you about instances and such, but I think the reason Capital Cities are "outdoors" is for mount use.

[Bun-Bun]

Hey everyone.  I've been playing a Druid since I purchased the game, and figured I'd spark some discussion over the skills, balance, etc.  I also have a few gripes with some changes that've been made, but anyway, on to the meat...
Hurricane
<snip>
I'm just a bit bummed that the ultimate spell in the tree has been found through experience to be a novelty at best.

Agreed. I have spurned Hurricane in favor of a deeper dip into Restoration.

Moonfire/Starfire
Staples of a Druid's arsenal.&nbsp; I'll often cast Starfire first, then give an immediate Moonfire for the damage over time.&nbsp; Spamming Moonfire is a viable strategy for dishing out heaps of damage ONLY if the fight is determined to be short and you have ample mana to spare.&nbsp; Otherwise it's not worth the cost in your mana pool.

No arguments, although I tend to use Wrath for most of my direct damage needs. Until the later Balance talents come in to play, Wrath is competitive in DPS and is "quantized" a bit better for my liking.

Entangling Roots
Amazing crowd-control, but I'm a bit sketchy on just what causes a release from the roots.&nbsp; The spell description reads that "damage may interrupt".&nbsp; This would cause one to infer that rooting an enemy and then leaving it alone would keep it there for the full duration; not true.&nbsp; I can only speculate that either there's a resistance "roll" every time the spell does damage and a successful resist breaks it.&nbsp; OR the damage of the spell itself is considered for the purposes of possibly releasing the enemy.&nbsp; If the latter is the case, it smells more like a bug than a feature.

Again, time for a gripe.&nbsp; This spell is not useful in Instances at all, in my experience.&nbsp; I've come across many situations where it'd be a great tool while working through an instance, only to realize I'm no "outdoors" for the purpose of the spell.&nbsp; It seems even areas like courtyards in the Scarlet Monastery are considered to be inside (which makes one wonder why similar areas in Stormwind are considered outdoors).&nbsp; Is this the case with all instances?&nbsp; I've yet to try it in the troll instance near Gadgetzan, but I have a stinkin suspicion it would still be considered indoors.

I suspect there's a resistance roll each time damage is applied. Entangling roots is nice, but it's sufficiently unreliable that I don't use it as a regular part of my arsenal. Situationally, yes; as a matter of course, no.

It's been a while since I did Zul'Farrak, but I recall Roots working there, as well as travel form, so I'm reasonably certain it's an "outside" area.

Nature's Grasp
Train this.&nbsp; Devote the talent points to increase its effectiveness.&nbsp; This is a wonderful escape tool when one needs to get some distance from an enemy.&nbsp; Again, its usefulness seems nullified in instances, but out and about it's just too useful to ignore.&nbsp; I've had many situations where this spell has bought me the time I need to get a heal cast upon myself or an ally.

I've never seen much use out of this. It seems like it would be useful only if you're being beaten upon by a single superior opponent, and I can usually escape such situations with travel form.

Omen of Clarity
As a Balance Druid, I don't spend as much time in Feral form as some others might.&nbsp; I've found that Omen of Clarity can make my mana pool last a much longer time, especially since I'll usually have a tank along with me.&nbsp; I've found it most effective with a fast weapon like a dagger, but even with a slow staff it's triggered often enough to be worth the one talent point required.&nbsp; In situations where I've run dry on mana, I'll charge in and give a few hits with my staff and instantly have a free casting of a heal or moonfire.&nbsp; Very handy.

I love Omen of Clarity. Let me say that again. I love Omen of Clarity. It has saved my bacon amazingly often.

I'm glad to find another druid who's willing to use daggers. The fast swing speed accomodates the cast-cast-whack-whack-cast-cast rhythm of the solo Balance druid better than a slower staff or mace.

Switchshifting
Has anyone found this particularly useful?&nbsp; I just can't justify the talent point cost to gain that slight amount of time between shifting and casting.&nbsp; I've found that the delay upon returning to NE form is barely noticeable.&nbsp; I'd really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on this.
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The functionality of shapeshifting has changed recently to eliminate the delay when shifting back to caster form. instead it seems to be delaying on the other leg, shifting to feral forms. This has rendered Swiftshifting pretty darned pointless.

One other talent I've found useful is Nature's Reach. It's a lot safer to pull if you've got a point or two there, especially if you're working mobs above your level.

What do you think of the higher pre-Hurricane Balance talents like Moonfury and Vengeance? Are they boosting your Starfire and Moonfire by an appreciable margin?

[DarkCrown]

I'm glad to find another druid who's willing to use daggers. The fast swing speed accomodates the cast-cast-whack-whack-cast-cast rhythm of the solo Balance druid better than a slower staff or mace.

I haven't spent much time using daggers. Honestly it hadn't occured to me that the Omen would proc more often if I were swinging more often. Silly me.

One other talent I've found useful is Nature's Reach. It's a lot safer to pull if you've got a point or two there, especially if you're working mobs above your level.

I don't know how I'd function without Nature's Reach. I'd say this is a must. I'd add that's it's much safer to pull with only Faerie Fire. It generates a lot less aggro than Moonfire or Starfire, making single pulls much more common.

What do you think of the higher pre-Hurricane Balance talents like Moonfury and Vengeance? Are they boosting your Starfire and Moonfire by an appreciable margin?
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I see critiical hits on my Starfire of 900-1000 pretty regularly - so I'm happy with the points I have here. If I were to respec right now I'd put my five initial points into a faster Wrath. The last time I looked I could get more DPS from a spammed 1.5 sec cast time Wrath than what I'm getting with the Starfire. This doesn't take critical hits into account, but I'd like to try it in-game and see what I thought of the damage.


-DarkCrown

[Bun-Bun]

I haven't spent much time using daggers. Honestly it hadn't occured to me that the Omen would proc more often if I were swinging more often. Silly me.

Not silly at all. The proc is theoretically independent of weapons speed. Still, there has to be a hit for it to work off of.

The main reason I like daggers is that casting resets the melee weapon strike timer. With a 3.2 speed staff, the soonest you'll hit after a burst-cast of Moonfire/Rejuv is 3.2 seconds. With a fast dagger, I can often work in a strike between the Moonfire and the Rejuv without pushing the 5-second mana regeneration timer out too far.

[TheDragoon]

I haven't spent much time using daggers. Honestly it hadn't occured to me that the Omen would proc more often if I were swinging more often. Silly me.

I'm not so sure that it DOES proc more often. I seem to remember Blizzard saying at some point that procs were weighted against weapon speed so that a slower weapon would have a higher chance to proc, per hit, than a faster weapon but that they would balance out to have a roughly similar level of proc'ing per time. I'll have to go look into this at some point and see if that is the case or if I am dreaming something up. :)

[playingtokrush]

I'm not so sure that it DOES proc more often.&nbsp; I seem to remember Blizzard saying at some point that procs were weighted against weapon speed so that a slower weapon would have a higher chance to proc, per hit, than a faster weapon but that they would balance out to have a roughly similar level of proc'ing per time.&nbsp; I'll have to go look into this at some point and see if that is the case or if I am dreaming something up.&nbsp; :)

You're not dreaming that at all. Blizzard has stated that. Of course, we can't be sure that Blizzard's weighting actually gives an even proc distribution in practice.

[Zarathustra]

Not silly at all. The proc is theoretically independent of weapons speed. Still, there has to be a hit for it to work off of.

The main reason I like daggers is that casting resets the melee weapon strike timer. With a 3.2 speed staff, the soonest you'll hit after a burst-cast of Moonfire/Rejuv is 3.2 seconds. With a fast dagger, I can often work in a strike between the Moonfire and the Rejuv without pushing the 5-second mana regeneration timer out too far.
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I'm not entirely sure casting resets the attack timer. I"ve had lots of situations where I've just cast a spell and immediately will take a swing with a slow weapon. Sometimes it seems it resets the attack counter; other times I'm not sure. Seems the best strategy is to fire off a spell immediately after taking a swing just in case.

As for the various talents augmenting the Balance spells, I've invested heavily in them and would say they're definitely worth it... in most cases. I have those enhancing Moonfire and Starfire maxed out and the damage difference is well worth it, especially considering critical hits.

Nature's Reach is a MUST for a caster. Extra range is always a good thing. Period.

I've not put any points into the talent that speeds Wrath up, but after reading in this thread a bit I may have to work on that next. I haven't actually used Wrath all that much. It's been used situationally whenever I need a slow-moving projectile setting me up for another spell.

The Improved Thorns talent just doesn't seem worth it to me. Even if you have a chance of dealing an extra 100% damage with Thorns, that's not saying much. At level 47 my Thorns deals 15 damage... so there'd be a chance of dealing 15 more when an enemy hits? Not worth 5 talent points in my book.

Likewise, I don't see the need for Improved Entangling Roots. If I'm in melee and need to separate a few enemies, Nature's Grasp takes care of that. It's an instant cast, so I don't lose any time in the fight. Next guy to hit me gets entangled, I move back a bit out of melee range, and I'm good to go. I've yet to encounter a situation where interruptions while casting Entangling Roots meant my death.

Finally, I don't see much point in the skill enhancing melee weapon damage. An extra 10% damage in melee really isn't going to do much for my Druid, since he doesn't have the strength to back things up. His DPS with melee weapons isn't terrible, but again it's not a place I'd see fit to spend 5 points.

[Concillian]

The Improved Thorns talent just doesn't seem worth it to me.&nbsp; Even if you have a chance of dealing an extra 100% damage with Thorns, that's not saying much.&nbsp; At level 47 my Thorns deals 15 damage... so there'd be a chance of dealing 15 more when an enemy hits?&nbsp; Not worth 5 talent points in my book.
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Thorns is situational. A tank dealing 15 additional damage ot everyone hitting him has a lot easier time holding aggro. I think Thorns is not as useful solo, but more of a group thing. Thorns on the tank is a GOOD thing. I don't think things like Retribution Aura and thorns is about damage so much as it is a form of group threat management for the hybrid tanks.

[Zarathustra]

Thorns is situational.&nbsp; A tank dealing 15 additional damage ot everyone hitting him has a lot easier time holding aggro.&nbsp; I think Thorns is not as useful solo, but more of a group thing.&nbsp; Thorns on the tank is a GOOD thing.&nbsp; I don't think things like Retribution Aura and thorns is about damage so much as it is a form of group threat management for the hybrid tanks.
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I'm not refuting the usefulness of Thorns at all. What I don't see is 5 talent points to give a slight chance of Thorns doing extra damage.