WOW - New Graphics Card or more RAM?

[nobbie]

Looking for some advice from the game hardware pros here.

I'm currently running WOW on a 2.5 years "old" computer system with the following specs:

Processor: Pentium 4 2GHz
RAM: 512 MB
Graphics Card: Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 64 MB graphics memory
Operating System: Windows 2000 Professional


For WOW, I'm currently using its "medium" graphics settings and the Geforce 4 card has 2x Anti-Aliasing and medium Mip-Mapping detail on. The performance at 1024 x 768 x 32 is overall relatively good so far. However, as soon as more objects become visible, especially in forests with lots of trees and leaves, performance (graphics and loading of new content) gets very heavy with lots of harddisk access. Bat flights over detailed landscapes end up in a slow slide show.

I would like to see an improvement for this beautiful game but don't want to invest more than about 100 Euros in my "old" system anymore. So, what would you hardware pros recommend from the following two options to get significantly better graphics performance with more detail?

1.) New Graphics Card "Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB Advantage DVI" for 99 Euros

or

2.) Upgrading System Memory from 512 to 1024 MB for about 80 Euros


I can live with the fact that loading of new area content (as soon as it becomes visible) takes more time with 512 than with 1024 MB RAM, but am not sure if upgrading system memory from 512 to 1024 MB RAM would increase the graphics performance of my Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 64 MB in any way (through additional texture memory in the system RAM). Also, how big would be the graphics performance increase (in %) that can be expected if I upgrade the Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 64 MB to the Radeon ATI Radeon 9600 Pro Advantage with 128 MB? My guess is that the graphics card update would be the far better choice, but am not quite sure. It should also be noted that the system memory upgrade would mean buying an additional 512 MB RAM module of the old "PC 266" class, which is outdated these days.

[Caeles]

I would have to say RAM is the biggest issue. I feel it extremely badly on my computer because it's only got 256. I have "lagdar" whenever someone of the opposing faction gets within sight because it has to load their profile etc.

I would say go with the ram to 1024. Once you reach that, you should be okay for ram and can look into a new video card, but anything less than 1024 really isn't enough for this game IMO. My friend has 512, and he says it's pretty tough at times when you get into large population area's.

If you want to do any sort of PvP, ram is the way to go first, and then consider upping the vid card.

[Kevin]

The 9600 Pro is only going to get you from -20% to +40% better FPS (depending on the game, generally it was only about 15% faster if my memory is still working right, could check Anand's and Tom's but eh the numbers are close). I know you're talking WoW, but I haven't really seen any comparisons on WoW performance anywhere (partly because there wouldn't be an automated test that could be run in consistent conditions). I really don't know if WoW does better on NVidia hardware or ATI hardware.

Both of your upgrade choices are outdated by a lot. The 9600 Pro and the Ti 4200 are the same generation of card and are now 3 or 4 generations old depending on what you consider a generation.

Now if you could get a GF 5900 (the 5200 and 5600's aren't much better than a Ti) or Radeon 9800 for that price it might be worth it.

As for what would help WoW the most for you, the RAM. Just the fact that you don't seem to see a performance difference when you turn on AA on your current video card is an indicator that it isn't the main bottleneck.

Your system is very similar to mine. Athlon XP 2000+, GF4 Ti4200 (128MB version though) and 512MB of DDR 266. At times the bottle neck appears to be the memory, at times it appears to be the CPU, and at times I think it's the graphics card. But I think what would help the most on average for me is more RAM.

[Concillian]

However, as soon as more objects become visible, especially in forests with lots of trees and leaves, performance (graphics and loading of new content) gets very heavy with lots of harddisk access. Bat flights over detailed landscapes end up in a slow slide show.
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This sounds exactly like a RAM issue. I think you would be happiest with a RAM upgrade.

As others have said a 9600 pro is kind of a marginal upgrade, I would look at least to an 8 pipeline card like the 9700 series for a graphics upgrade, but it sounds like graphics are not your primary issue. A new graphics card will not help the fact that you are hitting the hard drive.

[Bob the Beholder]

Yeah, I'm getting similar problems, particularly in high traffic areas like Crossroads and Orgrimmar. Terrain, like the forests he mentioned, I can handle, but when there are a lot of players in the area, it slows to a crawl. Kind of hampers participating in a raid when the skips are so long that a higher level enemy can enter my field of vision, kill me, and leave before my screen updates.

I've got a GeForce FX 5200 128 meg, and 512 megs of ram. So d'you think sticking an extra ram chip in there would improve this?

I've heard, however, that having a good bit of free space in the hard drive can help out a bit... But I'm currently at about five percent disc space. (WC3 + NWN + WoW + UT2K4 + BGII + 30 gigs of fansubbed anime = bad.) Any truth to that, or am I just hearing crazy-talk?

[Drasca]

I also cast a vote toward a ram upgrade, you'll gain actual utility out of it. The video card you've chosen is... not going to help. If you want a video card upgrade, and believe RAM is not worth it (not necessarily, if my Geforce 4 card comparison holds), then saving a little more would be best.

If you choose to wait/save, I recommend doing so. If you can get your hands on a Galaxy GeForce 6600GT AGP8x eventually, it would help your 3D gaming needs greatly out of box for its prices. That assumes you do not overclock, if you're one of those, LeadTek, BFG, XFX, and a few others would be better brand choices. I hope

I've just made a purchase order for a new video card, but I have plenty of ram myself. However... I have even with plenty of ram, I've had a lot of HDD access with my GeForce 4600 128 Mb in other games when there is great 3D load demands, very similar to your own card. Regular ram will not help much in this case. Video ram helps with texture loading, but still does not process those large environments.

Turn off anti-aliasing if you want directly better performance.

This link is about various GeForce 6600GT comparisons.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2295&p=2

Hmm. A Geforce 6200 might be a decent competiter quality/price too, but that is all dependent on local price availability.

I highly recommend against purchasing a 9600. It will not help. Neither will the ram upgrade, to be honest. Neither will provide a "signifigant graphical performance" improvement. You need a modern video card. The 5x00 series nvidia cards are generally not even worth considering when prices for 6200, 6600, and particularly 6600GT are comparable and these cards provide better gfx performance by leaps and bounds.

Chew on that.

[Thecla]

I'm no expert, but Windows task manager typically shows a comit charge of 650-820 MB when I'm running WoW on the settings I use (high options with 1024 x 768 resolution) so I suspect that an upgrade from 512 to 1024 RAM would be very useful.

[Drasca]

I've heard, however, that having a good bit of free space in the hard drive can help out a bit... But I'm currently at about five percent disc space.  (WC3 + NWN + WoW + UT2K4 + BGII + 30 gigs of fansubbed anime = bad.)  Any truth to that, or am I just hearing crazy-talk?
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Ouch. That isn't crazy talk at all. Some of that HD space is reserved system space. Uninstall some of that stuff! Transfer the Anime to CD darn-it. CD burners are cheaper than new games and practically standard now.

At the very least, send that 30 gigs of anime to .zip compression! That'll save you some space.

[nobbie]

Thanks! Ok, so RAM seems to be cruicial. Has anybody here made a RAM upgrade from 512 MB to 1024 MB RAM for WOW and can confirm a significant boost in overall game performance?

[redinter]

Thanks! Ok, so RAM seems to be cruicial. Has anybody here made a RAM upgrade from 512 MB to 1024 MB RAM for WOW and can confirm a significant boost in overall game performance?
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I can only help you with my gaming experience as I had already upgraded to 1024 MB when I began to play WoW, but I must say I dont have any kind of problems, even in high populated areas. It does take a while to load all data when I log on into a high populated area, but when moving around, I dont notice any kind of problems.
I have a Radeon 9600 card, but I use overall highest setting, so there shouldnt be a speed difference to your graphic card with your settings.
As for having to buy old DDR-266 RAM, it is not so. You can buy modern DDR-400 RAM or faster to use on a later computer upgrade. It will work at 266 in your computer, due to BIOS settings, but may be used later in faster systems. The only problem that may arise, is that both memory modules dont like each other, but that problem may happen even if both are the same speed.

[Ruvanal]

Thanks! Ok, so RAM seems to be cruicial. Has anybody here made a RAM upgrade from 512 MB to 1024 MB RAM for WOW and can confirm a significant boost in overall game performance?
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Yes, when I upgraded from 512 RAM to 1024 RAM during the beta, I had an enormous change in how well the game handles graphics framerates in most areas. For example most fo the flights changed from a 1-3 fps slide show to an almost smooth rate of 15-25 fps. Some areas like the entrance of SW will still put a bit of chop into the rate though since that area has an excessive amount of vertices and textures for just the terrain (those 4 statues, while nice to look at are a pain for most video cards to track while dealing with all the other stuff at the same time).

[nobbie]

As for having to buy old DDR-266 RAM, it is not so. You can buy modern DDR-400 RAM or faster to use on a later computer upgrade. It will work at 266 in your computer, due to BIOS settings, but may be used later in faster systems. The only problem that may arise, is that both memory modules dont like each other, but that problem may happen even if both are the same speed.
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That's interesting. So, although I have a 2Ghz Pentium 4, which allows just up to 266 Mhz RAM through the BIOS settings (100 MHz FSB x 2.66), I can put 333 or 400 Mhz RAM chips into that slots provided I buy all new 333 or 400 MHz RAM (1x 1024 MB or 2x 512 MB)?

[Concillian]

That's interesting. So, although I have a 2Ghz Pentium 4, which allows just up to 266 Mhz RAM through the BIOS settings (100 MHz FSB x 2.66), I can put 333 or 400 Mhz RAM chips into that slots provided I buy all new 333 or 400 MHz RAM (1x 1024 MB or 2x 512 MB)?
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No, PC3200 and PC2700 (DDR400 and DDR333 respectively) is fully backwards compatible with PC2100 (DDR266) All you have to do is buy 512 MB of PC3200 and you're set for now and you have 512 MB for an upgrade. It will work fine with your existing PC2100.

Any PC2100 sold now is just de-rated PC2700 anyway. In fact, I have 2 sticks of PC2700 that were apparently de-rated PC3200 and run fine at 200 MHz.

Also, your FSB is 133 MHz, CPU speed is 133 x 15 = 2000 MHz

Everything is DDR, so "effective speed" is always what is quoted, even though the actual speed is half that.

[Concillian]

I've got a GeForce FX 5200 128 meg, and 512 megs of ram.  So d'you think sticking an extra ram chip in there would improve this? 
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Yes, but it's a more difficult call in your case, as you have a slower graphics card than he with the Ti 4200.

[nobbie]

No, PC3200 and PC2700 (DDR400 and DDR333 respectively) is fully backwards compatible with PC2100 (DDR266)  All you have to do is buy 512 MB of PC3200 and you're set for now and you have 512 MB for an upgrade.  It will work fine with your existing PC2100.

Any PC2100 sold now is just de-rated PC2700 anyway.  In fact, I have 2 sticks of PC2700 that were apparently de-rated PC3200 and run fine at 200 MHz.

Also, your FSB is 133 MHz, CPU speed is 133 x 15 = 2000 MHz

Everything is DDR, so "effective speed" is always what is quoted, even though the actual speed is half that.
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A 2 GHz Pentium 4 always has 133 MHz FSB/Host speed? One moment .. are you saying that my system is currently running under value?

This are my current BIOS settings (regarding speeds), which my dealer has set when I bought a new mainboard (Gigabyte GA-8PE800(-L), supports PC266/333 RAM) for my Pentium 4 2 GHz last year:

CPU Host Clock Control: Disabled (can be enabled to allow OC and proper adjustment using the following Host Frequency parameter)

CPU Host Frequency: 100 MHz (set by the dealer - Should I set this to 133 now for the 2 GHz P4? Are you sure that this would be no overclocking, and that the formula "CPU speed = FSB speed x 15" is always right?)

Host/DRAM Clock Ratio: 2.66 (set by the dealer - This must be set to 2.0 for PC266 RAM and 2.66 for PC333 RAM if I set CPU Host Frquency to 133 Mhz, correct?)

EDIT:

If you look at this original Intel data sheet for the P4 2 GHz, then it has just 100 MHz Host Frequency, and not 133 MHz:

http://www.intel.com/design/pentium4/dat...249887.htm

[Roland]

Graphics is the way to go, but unfortunately, your "choice" is not significant enough to make an ounce of difference. So, while more RAM can't hurt, I don't think it's going to help nearly as much as a new graphics card.

I had your exact same card. Then I bought a GeForce 6800 (plain). Worked like a charm. Although I also have a gig of RAM (Planetside used to run like #$%& with anything less, and I mean like #$%&).

Long story short: save your money and get a better video card. ;) Then worry about the RAM. Or vice versa, whichever you prefer.

[Malakar]

You might want to check out this test.

Basically, they ran a few different tests, with the following results.

WoW graphics settings don't have much impact except for Terrain Distance, which can have a large impact on your framerate.

Both your graphics card and your system memory have a large impact on the smoothness of the game.

With a high end system gimped with 256 megs of ram, gryphon flights showed only a few frames the entire flight. 512 made a HUGE difference, but still a bit of choppiness, and 1024 ran smoothly. They didn't do any tests in highly populated zones like Ironforge IIRC, which is unfortunate because I'd imagine it'd make an even bigger difference there.

I don't believe they did any tests on slower ram speed.


So in short, the amount of memory you have has been proven to have a very significant impact on WoW performance. As others have said, for your price range, your best bet is probably going with ram since the graphics card upgrade wouldn't be very significant.

[Concillian]

Sorry, I always forget Intel and it's asynchronous memory/CPU bus preference. I stand corrected.

[Caeles]

Thanks! Ok, so RAM seems to be cruicial. Has anybody here made a RAM upgrade from 512 MB to 1024 MB RAM for WOW and can confirm a significant boost in overall game performance?
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I personally have not done that upgrade. Instead i went from a 64 meg card, to a 128 meg card, and it made very little difference. Granted there was a difference, but it was maybe at most 5 fps (from my standard 10-20 as it varies depending on region, amount of people etc.)

So i can say that this is definately not the way to go at first. 256 is horrible though. My friend has 512 and he says that's it's much better than my 256, but still not great.

[LochnarITB]

Thanks! Ok, so RAM seems to be cruicial. Has anybody here made a RAM upgrade from 512 MB to 1024 MB RAM for WOW and can confirm a significant boost in overall game performance?
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It's already been said but RAM is the way to go. I have a laptop with a GeForce 420 Go 32M (yes, only 32 meg graphics memory - how outdated can you get! :blush: ). I was having bad troubles with lagging every time I had a new load. A gryphon into Ironforge or Stormwind was about 5 SPF (seconds per frame) on touchdown for the first minute. I also had to turn down terrain distance and all other sliders to get anything acceptable at other times. I upped my RAM from 512 to 1024 and was amazed. I turned all the sliders to the top, including terrain distance, with the exception of the upper left set (? - don't remember what that is) which is apparently not available on this card. Any lag flying in to a major city is now directly related to population lag. In the early morning hours, I fly in and hit the ground running, no pause.

As the commercials say, JUST DO IT! I guarantee you will love it.