How do you avoid wiping ininstances?

[Xanthix]

I was wondering, how do your groups avoid wiping when things go bad? I am the priest for a regular group, and normally we can handle everything, but sometimes you can tell that things are turning sour and a wipe is going to occur. In these circumstances, I would love to be able to disengage, hide somewhere, and then come back and res people when it's over.

The problem is, as long as you have ANY aggro, the mobs will go after you when their current targets are dead, and in an instance there is no distance at which they will not chase you. I don't see any way to "hide" from mobs when a wipe is certain. In some instances there are tricks, like in the Deadmines you can jump in the water, lure the mobs to one side, then climb out on the other side, but I can't think of a general tactic that works in general situations.

Am I missing something? If I cast Fade enough will it help? If I start running as soon as the tank dies will I get away? I don't want to abandon my party, but really we would recover from a wipe faster if I could just res people where we left off. Any feedback would be appreciated!

[mjdoom]

Most of the time there is not much you can do to get away. Barring special tactics like the water in the deadmines you are going to hold aggro until you die (although certain mobs in instances actually have leashes as we found out when facing Eranikus in Sunken Temple).

The first way to help prevent completely wiping is to have a warlock on hand to put a soulstone on you. This won't stop a wipe but will greatly increase the speed at which you can restart on your run. Just make sure as the stoned person you don't die close to the mobs' reset point so that they won't aggro you when you activate the stone. Also remember to not activate the stone until all mobs have reset and it is clear. You don't want to waste that soulstone.

If you don't have a warlock on hand your best bet is to stand and fight. If the battle is down to one or two mobs and your party is down to two people you can still pull it off. As a priest you have a few tricks up your sleeve. If you have the mana go into a quick heal spree, fire up your shield, and open fire. With Shadow Word:Pain and Mind Blast/Smite you can do some damage and it might just do the trick. Never forget Psychic Scream if there isn't another group of mobs around that you could aggro. If you are seriously outnumbered then the wipe is inevitable... just get ready to make a corpse run and reevaluate your strategy so it hopefully doesn't happen again.

- mjdoom

Edit: added another thought

[Tal]

I was wondering, how do your groups avoid wiping when things go bad? I am the priest for a regular group, and normally we can handle everything, but sometimes you can tell that things are turning sour and a wipe is going to occur. In these circumstances, I would love to be able to disengage, hide somewhere, and then come back and res people when it's over.

The problem is, as long as you have ANY aggro, the mobs will go after you when their current targets are dead, and in an instance there is no distance at which they will not chase you. I don't see any way to "hide" from mobs when a wipe is certain. In some instances there are tricks, like in the Deadmines you can jump in the water, lure the mobs to one side, then climb out on the other side, but I can't think of a general tactic that works in general situations.

Am I missing something? If I cast Fade enough will it help? If I start running as soon as the tank dies will I get away? I don't want to abandon my party, but really we would recover from a wipe faster if I could just res people where we left off. Any feedback would be appreciated!
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If you bring a paladin along (and they don't get caught healing like I seem to always do) they can use divine protection, run to a cleared area and then divine intervention to remove themselves from all combat for a set time. THey can the rez the party.

[MongoJerry]

If you bring a paladin along (and they don't get caught healing like I seem to always do) they can use divine protection, run to a cleared area and then divine intervention to remove themselves from all combat for a set time. THey can the rez the party.

Shamans can also self-rez, although they get rez sickness for a ridiculous 10 minutes after they do it.

As the party's priest, there is one way to lose aggro completely -- running out of the instance if the portal is close enough. Sometimes, I've faded to get mobs off me and ran for the exit while the rest of my group valiently provided the distraction I needed to get away.

Also, sometimes you know things are going to go badly right off the bat -- before you even get any aggro. Sometimes, you just have to back off, let the puller or any others who foolishly engaged in battle die, and then rez afterward.

[Faragon]

This is why Warlock Engineers truly shine:

Goblin Jumper cables :D

[Taeme]

Generally the game is set up in a way that it is impossible to prevent wiping without special tactics. Worse, some instances have such brutal respawn timers on mobs that many tricks, like Hunter feigning or rogue stealth, do not work simply because there will be mobs filling the entrance regions if you die half way.

On a related note, I really hate you, Uldaman.

This is why Warlock Engineers truly shine:

Goblin Jumper cables :D
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They work somewhere under ten percent of the time.

The soulstone should always be placed on the priest.

[MongoJerry]

They work somewhere under ten percent of the time.

The soulstone should always be placed on the priest.

It's 50% of the time, unless it's been changed in retail. It just *feels* like 10%. Yes, the soulstone should be placed on the priest. However, engineering rogues are really good, since rogues can vanish and survive a wipe.

[Kevin]

I've wondered a bit and am curious as to others points of view on this. If you have a priest and a paladin, is the priest still the best choice for the soulstone? Soulstoning someone who can bring the whole group back is pretty obvious, but if the person who is soulstoned dies near a spawn point, isn't the pally going to be better able to get out of there to rez? I also don't know what condition you come back in when a soulstone brings you back so I'm assuming you are pretty weak just like if a spell brings you back.

I'm really not sure on this. I don't have enough experience with either class yet, and even if in some cases the paly might be a better a choice I realize the priest is never a bad choice. I'm just wondering if you had the luxury of choosing one or the other, which would be better.

[Ruvanal]

It's 50% of the time, unless it's been changed in retail.  It just *feels* like 10%.  Yes, the soulstone should be placed on the priest.  However, engineering rogues are really good, since rogues can vanish and survive a wipe.
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Since many hunters end up taking engineering, they too can pull this stunt with the use of Feign Death to shed the aggro in a safe spot. If they have the presence of mind to move back and use the skill prior to the wipe getting to them, they have a good chance to survive.

I've wondered a bit and am curious as to others points of view on this. If you have a priest and a paladin, is the priest still the best choice for the soulstone? Soulstoning someone who can bring the whole group back is pretty obvious, but if the person who is soulstoned dies near a spawn point, isn't the pally going to be better able to get out of there to rez? I also don't know what condition you come back in when a soulstone brings you back so I'm assuming you are pretty weak just like if a spell brings you back.

I'm really not sure on this. I don't have enough experience with either class yet, and even if in some cases the paly might be a better a choice I realize the priest is never a bad choice. I'm just wondering if you had the luxury of choosing one or the other, which would be better.

Read Tal's earlier post. The paladins have a different method that can allow them to survive in situation like this. The priest does not really have any good options on their own. So it would be better to have the soulstone on the priest as it then gives the party two different ways to avoid a wipe instead of all the chances hinging on one characters action. Almost all the wipe out prevention methods do require some effort on the player that is going to get out of the fight and bring the rest back. Sometimes it just is not going to be practical for one player to make that effort in time, so more characters with the option is a really good thing.

[Kevin]

Read Tal's earlier post.  The paladins have a different method that can allow them to survive in situation like this.  The priest does not really have any good options on their own.  So it would be better to have the soulstone on the priest as it then gives the party two different ways to avoid a wipe instead of all the chances hinging on one characters action.  Almost all the wipe out prevention methods do require some effort on the player that is going to get out of the fight and bring the rest back.  Sometimes it just is not going to be practical for one player to make that effort in time, so more characters with the option is a really good thing.
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I did, that is part of the reason I was wondering about putting it on the pally. Yeah, it is still all eggs in one basket, but that trick can be used after the soulstone rez to get yourself safe to then go and rez the rest of the party. As tal mentioned, palys pretty much never have mana in combat and might not be able to pull that trick before hand.

It was just an idle thought that I figured could garner some good discussion. :)

[Xanthix]

If you bring a paladin along (and they don't get caught healing like I seem to always do) they can use divine protection, run to a cleared area and then divine intervention to remove themselves from all combat for a set time. THey can the rez the party.
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I thought Divine Intervention let the pally remove someone ELSE from combat by sacrificing themselves? Can a pally cast it on himself/herself?

I have heard that the pally can Intervention the priest or someone else who can res, and then the priest can get clear of the action and bring the party back, but it sounds like you're suggesting something else. Am I missing something?

[Tal]

I thought Divine Intervention let the pally remove someone ELSE from combat by sacrificing themselves? Can a pally cast it on himself/herself?

I have heard that the pally can Intervention the priest or someone else who can res, and then the priest can get clear of the action and bring the party back, but it sounds like you're suggesting something else. Am I missing something?
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I've not used it since Beta where it removed the pally from combat for 30 seconds. I'll have to test it out.

[MongoJerry]

I did, that is part of the reason I was wondering about putting it on the pally.  Yeah, it is still all eggs in one basket, but that trick can be used after the soulstone rez to get yourself safe to then go and rez the rest of the party.  As tal mentioned, palys pretty much never have mana in combat and might not be able to pull that trick before hand.

There's also the fact that the soulstoned person can choose to rez while in combat. I've prevented many wipes after I died by rezing in combat and going right into healing mode. This can help when the priest dies early for some reason or as a way to extend a fight against a difficult boss. You start off with a pretty decent supply of mana when you rez. Also, sometimes I've managed to rez a person or two as well, since you start off not in combat after you rez.

Anyway, it's best to soulstone the priest instead of a paladin, because the priest is usually in the back anyway, so if they die, they're likely going to be out of range of mobs once they finish killing the party. Plus, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket as others here have mentioned. I've met a lot of paladins who wouldn't have a clue how to handle such a situation.

[Rinnhart]

I've not used it since Beta where it removed the pally from combat for 30 seconds. I'll have to test it out.
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I think Xanthix is correct, though I haven't had the opportunity to test the spell out.

Silly healers always die first.

[mjdoom]

Silly healers always die first.
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That's because as long as they're alive they are keeping you alive B)

Don't let that healer die if you know what's good for you... :shuriken:

[Xanthix]

I think Xanthix is correct, though I haven't had the opportunity to test the spell out.
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Actually, now someone on another forum is saying Divine Intervention freezes the target where they are, so they are removed from combat, but also can't move. If this is true, using DI to prevent a wipe seems like it would require a lot of communication and effort. Plus, in the zeal to prevent a wipe, you may accidentally cause one out of an otherwise survivable situation, because DI removes the pally and the priest (ie, the healers) from the fight.

I'll test DI with my brother this week, who just hit 30 on his pally.

That's because as long as they're alive they are keeping you alive  B)
Don't let that healer die if you know what's good for you...  :shuriken:
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Actually, it's "as long as they have mana" they are keeping you alive." It's just that when we go OOM we are just walking monster chew-toys, and the only time we go OOM is when we are chain-healing your tanking butt, and thus have all the aggro from the entire zone. :)

[mjdoom]

Actually, it's "as long as they have mana" they are keeping you alive." It's just that when we go OOM we are just walking monster chew-toys, and the only time we go OOM is when we are chain-healing your tanking butt, and thus have all the aggro from the entire zone. :)
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Mmm, aggro from the entire zone. I always love that one, it usually doesn't last long though. ;)

[MongoJerry]

Actually, it's "as long as they have mana" they are keeping you alive." It's just that when we go OOM we are just walking monster chew-toys, and the only time we go OOM is when we are chain-healing your tanking butt, and thus have all the aggro from the entire zone. :)

My philosophy is: Being out of mana is just an excuse. With first aide bandages, Inner Focus, mana potions, my robe that lowers the mana cost of my next spell by 500, and my trinket that regens 300 mana over 15 seconds, when I run out of mana, I'm just getting started. :lol:

[Tal]

Anyway, it's best to soulstone the priest instead of a paladin, because the priest is usually in the back anyway, so if they die, they're likely going to be out of range of mobs once they finish killing the party.  Plus, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket as others here have mentioned.  I've met a lot of paladins who wouldn't have a clue how to handle such a situation.
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Quoted for agreement mainly because I am usually the main tank. Even when not I still prefer for the priest to be soulstoned. :)

[Xanthix]

My philosophy is:  Being out of mana is just an excuse.  With first aide bandages, Inner Focus, mana potions, my robe that lowers the mana cost of my next spell by 500, and my trinket that regens 300 mana over 15 seconds, when I run out of mana, I'm just getting started.  :lol:
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Okay, I stand corrected. But by "out of mana" I meant having exhausted all one's tricks as well. :) Presumably a good priest will have been using things like bandages and mana replenishers all along, in an effort to not go OOM, so when their mana hits zero they are really toast. And if they haven't, then when they do go OOM a lot of those tricks won't save them. All the bandaids in the world will not help you when three mobs suddenly remember the cardinal rule of RPG's, "Kill the healer first!"