Hunter talent discussion

[kandrathe]

Also for many players, the first times of using the skill probably gave them a not too pleasant experience as they likely ended up pulling the aggro of two mobs onto themselves when their pet had only gained an aggro lock on mob in the group.  That type of experince will have many players swearing of a skill and not playing around with it more later to see where and how it should be used.

Typically if I encounter a group, I try to pull one mob at a time but at times more attack, I quickly cycle targets and use ctrl-1 to get the mobs to aggro on my pet to tank them. My pet and I will focus on one of the group to weaken it to near death, then I use multi-shot to try to pull some of the mob off the pet and allow him to finish off one of the remainder, while I deal with one or two of the remaining either by stalling them while rangeing in on the creature the pet is killing, or killing them directly. By managing aggro with ctrl-1, ctrl-2, and your own crit hits, you can keep some number of mobs running the distance between you and the pet (hopefully, poisoned, stunned or slowed the whole time).

So, this is where I use Hunters Mark as well. Using Ctrl-1 to send your pet off to the edge of vision to pull a mob, sometimes when you use ctril-2 to pull him back they end up out of sight. With Hunters Mark that is no problem.

So, I find multi-shot useful when I want to efficiently pull more than one mob, either out of a group or off my pet.

[kandrathe]

I use a quick spin, wing-clip, and run technique all the time to escape mobs and I suspect it would be handy in PVP. It's instant and lasts 10 seconds vs 4 seconds and once you've gained some distance you could whirl and fire off a concussive shot as a coup de gras, but I prefer serpent sting as I might still be able to take them out while I'm quaffing some restorative juices.

PVP is really not my thing, although I am 2 for 2 in the only 2 duel challenges I accepted. :) Lochnar finally taught me last night how to train beasts, so I was the aggro magnet for my first 20 levels as a hunter. It forced me to learn some sweet close fighting techniques, even 3 mobs on 1 (or 2 if the pet was alive).

[kandrathe]

Thread Resurrection!

I'm nearing the end of my talent selections and this is how I ended up with no respecs.



I have 10 points remaining to allocate, and they are designated for the Unleashed Fury, and Thick Hide beast mastery talents. My thinking in general in building this PVE char was that I wanted to maximize my single target DPS, while my pet would be the off tank and control and hold my targets at range. I tried to focus my gear and talents on improving on what I think Hunter's do best. So for instance, Barrage was omitted as I am not an AOE master. If you want AOE, get a mage or a Warlock.

Now soon I will focus on acquiring my end game equipment, but currently with nominal purchases from AH, quest rewards and some good instance drops I've got +127 agi, which gives me ranged attack of 249, Power 662, and pre-modified damage on my bow is 145-167. My actual measured DPS at level 50 tends to be 100-130 range. My aimed shot criticals against lightly armored targets are up towards 1200.

My preference for my equipment has been for +agility, then AC, then +stamina, and now I soon must also look at resistances.

[Chesspiece_face]

Intimidation
Rank 1/1: 290 Mana 30 yd range Instant cast
Increases the threat caused by your pet by 50% for 10 sec.

I've heard people in many places say that new abilites for 1 point are almost always worth it.  I find myself questioning them alot of the time though.  I mean, if you are only going to use that ability on very rare occasions, then wouldn't the point be better spent somewhere else?  Thats kind of how I feel about this one.  In most situations my pet gains plenty of aggro as is.  So when do I need him to gain 50% more threat for 10 seconds?  Maybe if a caster has pulled aggro and you need to get it back real quick.  I can see it being very useful for that.  It could be especially nice if the caster, for some reason, doesn't stop attacking when he draws it.  I guess basically my problem with this is that in a group with smart players it shouldn't be needed.  The truth is though that you won't always have that and so maybe its worth it.  I have no clue if I willever get it or not though.  Currently I'm leaning towards not.
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I totally agree with your assesment of Intimidation. As far as i'm concerned this talant should be completely reworked. Something along the lines of: xxx mana, 1-2 minute recast timer, Targetted enemy cannot flee. (like the Paladin judgement) Not something you can use all the time, but during those fights where things come apart and you see that mob running off to grab his friends with your pet in tow you can be thankful you spent that 1 talant point on.

[Artega]

I totally agree with your assesment of Intimidation.  As far as i'm concerned this talant should be completely reworked.  Something along the lines of:  xxx mana, 1-2 minute recast timer, Targetted enemy cannot flee.  (like the Paladin judgement)  Not something you can use all the time, but during those fights where things come apart and you see that mob running off to grab his friends with your pet in tow you can be thankful you spent that 1 talant point on.
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That would require renaming, too. The mob would be more likely to run if you were intimidating it, not less likely.

As far as groupwork goes, there are better ways to keep mobs from running; stuns from nearly any class work fine, and there's always Curse of Recklessness from those lovable Warlocks.

The hunter already has two powerful snares. They don't need a change like what you're suggesting :)

[Metrocube]

I've taken the time to look over the survival talents just so I could post about them.

Well, now you're entering Leeah's area of expertise, the melee hunter, so let me comment here. The melee hunter does not want to engage in prolonged hand to hand fighting. The melee hunter wants to use his/her ranged weapons all the time, but recognizes that there will be times when an enemy will close and prevent ranged weapon use. By investing in the survival talent tree, the melee hunter gains some tools that he/she can use to get back to effective ranged weapon distance.

Leeah's build at 58 is:
Survival (21)
-Precision [5/5]
--Entrapment [5/5]
--Improved Wing Clip [5/5]
---Deterrence [1/1]
----Deflection [5/5]
-----Counterattack [1/1]

Marksmanship (27)
-Improved Concussive Shot [5/5]
-Efficiency[5/5]
--Lethal Shots [5/5]
---Improved Arcane Shot [3/5]
----Mortal Shots [5/5]
-----Scatter Shot [1/1]
-----Hawk Eye [3/3]

Entrapment
The chance to entrap a mob 25% of the time should be good right?  To be honest though, I don't think it is any good.

It's a wonderful PVP skill because it lets your spellcasters get more damage in before your prey can flee. You only get PvP credit if your prey dies, so you want to keep them in caster range for as long as possible. This talent almost doubles the amount of time that you can hamper enemy mobility.

You were wondering how to set the traps in pvp. You can feign death to drop out of combat mode, and drop it while feigning. Also, traps that you drop while unflagged won't be triggered by flagged enemies.... until you attack someone and get flagged yourself. You can safely drop one behind a group of enemies as long as you don't attack anyone.

Lightning Reflexes
A Survival build wants to dodge as often as possible because they can use a special whenever they dodge

I skipped this. I think the game calculates miss % before dodge, and dodge % before parry. I want more parries so that I can counterattack and get away.

Improved Mongoose Bite
Increasing the damage for one of your main abilities is always a good thing.

This is a waste, because Mongoose bite is not a main ability. It only does 75 damage. Don't waste 5 talent points for less than 20 points of extra damage.

Deterrence
So while you can't do it often because of the cooldown, it could be very useful in a tough fight.

In PvE, detterence is what you use when your main tank goes down and you're the only thing between your healer and CertainDeath™. Or, when a devilsaur is chewing at your trousers and it resisted your Feign Death, and you want to live a few seconds more so that you can get off a wing clip.

In PvP, it helps you survive those charging warrior attacks.

But, the main reason for taking this talent is to open up the Counterattack talent.

Counterattack
I'm not sure how the immobilize helps any though.

It lets you put distance between you and your prey (be it PvE or PvP) so that you can use your ranged weapons again.

There is nothing more devastating to a warrior or rogue than a Counterattack. They are helpless until they break free.

Level 6

Don't bother with anything after Counterattack. Counterattack is the primary reason why I put points in this tree anyway.

[russ]

In PvP, it {Deterrence} helps you survive those charging warrior attacks.

NEVER DO THIS! If you dodge a single warrior's attack, you're asking for an Overpower to the face. Turning on Deterrence or Evasion against all but the rarest warrior builds is pretty much going to assure death. The most common build will instantly smack you with a 600-800 damage attack with a 60% chance to crit, for five rage. That hurts.
If a warrior charges you, they should be charging right into a Freezing Trap. Deterrence is great for PvE and for dealing with rogues in PvP, but using it against a warrior is pretty much giving them an easy kill.

[savaughn]

Thread Resurrection!

I'm nearing the end of my talent selections and this is how I ended up with no respecs.
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I missed this last week. Some quick feedback. Some of the "obvious" talent choices for the Hunter builds are really bad calls. Specifically, Improved Aspect of the Hawk and Improved Hunter's Mark. 10 points of talents here combine to give you just 2.4DPS. This is really pathetic. Similarly, the ranged weapon specialization damage skill is not great. It only increases the base weapon damage of the gun. Since guns cap out around 32DPS, we're talking a 1.6DPS increase at the very most. 15 points to get 4DPS is not worth it.

Take these three skills only if you have absolutely nothing better to put the points into. Unleashed Fury, Lethal Shots, Mortal Shots, Ferocity, and Frenzy all do much more to improve your overall DPS than IHM, IAH, or RWS.

[Brista]

Similarly, the ranged weapon specialization damage skill is not great.  It only increases the base weapon damage of the gun.

This was amended in a recent patch

It now includes attack power making it a reasonably good talent

[savaughn]

This was amended in a recent patch

It now includes attack power making it a reasonably good talent
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Really? Wow, how did I miss that?!? Good to know!

[kandrathe]

I missed this last week.  Some quick feedback.  Some of the "obvious" talent choices for the Hunter builds are really bad calls.  Specifically, Improved Aspect of the Hawk and Improved Hunter's Mark.  10 points of talents here combine to give you just 2.4DPS.  This is really pathetic.  Similarly, the ranged weapon specialization damage skill is not great.  It only increases the base weapon damage of the gun.  Since guns cap out around 32DPS, we're talking a 1.6DPS increase at the very most.  15 points to get 4DPS is not worth it.

Take these three skills only if you have absolutely nothing better to put the points into.  Unleashed Fury, Lethal Shots, Mortal Shots, Ferocity, and Frenzy all do much more to improve your overall DPS than IHM, IAH, or RWS.
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I think I went with Improved Hunter's mark because I needed something here to progress up the talent tree. Efficiency seemed to somewhat useless compared to what buffs and +int gear might give, and I wasn't interested in making Arcane Shot cool down 1 second faster. +15% to Hunters mark seemed a better choice (at rank 4, 110 + 16.5 to ranged attack power). For Imp AOH, that was a very early choice I made to focus on my ranged attack power rather than the pet. Improved AoH gives me +20% (at rank 6, 110 + 22 to ranged attack power). Considering that my focus is on maximizing ranged attack power, where would you suggest a better use of those 5-10 points might be?

My rough calculations (which may be off) for Cel at lvl 55 now, projecting to 60; She has a base ranged attack power of 610 (+43.6 dps), +30 for trueshot, +126.5 Hunter's Mark, and +132 for AoH). Also consider for group play that the +30 is for all attack power, and +126.5 is for all ranged attackers. So, for those points I raise my ranged attack power to ~900 (+64 dps) with no other buffs, pre-end game gear (+142 agility now) and only +7 of that agility in enchants. Now, with the current incarnation putting 5 points in Ferocity might improve our team (me + pet) dps.

I will have to look at end game equipment and weapons to see what my potential ranged attack power might be.

Edit: So bear with me will I spew my end game gear analysis here.

Celethirian's (and Possible End Game) Gear
(with a lot of hard work, and some help from my dear friends)

Gorewood
+2str, +3agi, +9sta
55(+7) to 104(+7) spd 2.5
62 to 111
31.8 dps (34.6)

Currently has;
Quillfire Bow of the Falcon
+5agi +5int
41(+7) to 77(+7) spd 2.3
49 to 84
25.7 dps (29)

For melee I would like it to enhance ranged AP;

Barbarous Blade - 2H Sword
138 to 207, 53.9dps, spd 3.2
+60 RAP, +1% CS

I currently use;

Thrashblade 1H Sword and Hunt Tracker Blade Dagger
66 to 124, 35.2 dps, spd 2.7 -- 35 to 66, 33.7 dps, spd 1.5, +8agi +5spi

Agility Armor Gear (Accessible)
Head: Clayridge Helm 242AC +16agi +15spi
(Beaststalker's Cap 297AC +20agi +20sta +10int +6spi)

Neck: Talvash's Enhancing +10sta +1int +10spi
(Evil Eye Pendant +15agi)

Shoulders: Lord's Pauldrons of the Falcon 212AC +11agi +12int
(Beaststalker's Mantle 266AC +11agi +17sta +7int +4spi)

Back: Mercurial Cloak of the Falcon 38AC (+50) +10agi +12int
(Cape of the Black Baron 45AC +15agi +20AP)

Chest: Willowband Hauberk 317AC +20agi +10sta +6int
(Beaststalker's Tunic 370AC +21agi +5str +16sta +13int +6spi)

Wrist: Mercurial Bracers of the Monkey 141AC +9agi +10sta
(Beaststalker's Bindings 148AC +15agi +7sta)

Hands: Grotslab Gloves 186AC +12(+7)agi +12int
(Beaststalker's Gloves 218AC +14agi +9sta +9int +10spi)

Waist: Ornate Girdle of the Falcon 167AC +12agi +12int
(Beaststalker's Belt 193AC +10agi +9str +6sta +11spi)

Legs: Windrunner Leggings 291AC +27agi +11spi
(Beaststalker's Pants 315AC +26agi +6str +6sta +12spi)

Feet: Crusader Boots of the Wolf 198AC +11agi +12spi
(Beaststalker's Boots 240AC +21agi +9sta)

Finger: Mason's Fraternity Ring +13agi +5sta
(Tarnished Elven Ring +15agi

Finger: Jungle Ring of the Falcon +10agi +10int
(Tarnished Elven Ring +15agi

Beaststalker Set Bonus (that matter here) +20 AP, +60 RAP, +1% CS

Base Agility(60): 129 (275 RAP)
Current Gear: +171 Agility (+342 RAP)
EG Gear: +198 Agility (+456 RAP)
HM + AOH + TS : (+288.5 RAP)

Total Unbuffed:
327 Agility
731 RAP +52.2 dps
1020 RAP (w/HM + AOH + TS) +72.8 dps

+13 to 17.5 Dps for Jagged or Thorium arrows

So with just the quest reward Gorewood should do ~120 to 125 dps

[savaughn]

I think I went with Improved Hunter's mark because I needed something here to progress up the talent tree.  Efficiency seemed to somewhat useless compared to what buffs and +int gear might give, and I wasn't interested in making Arcane Shot cool down 1 second faster.  +15% to Hunters mark seemed a better choice (at rank 4, 110 + 16.5 to ranged attack power).  For Imp AOH, that was a very early choice I made to focus on my ranged attack power rather than the pet.  Improved AoH gives me +20% (at rank 6, 110 + 22 to ranged attack power).  Considering that my focus is on maximizing ranged attack power, where would you suggest a better use of those 5-10 points might be?

My rough calculations (which may be off) for Cel at lvl 55 now, projecting to 60;  She has a base ranged attack power of 610 (+43.6 dps), +30 for trueshot, +126.5 Hunter's Mark, and +132 for AoH).  Also consider for group play that the +30 is for all attack power, and +126.5 is for all ranged attackers.  So, for those points I raise my ranged attack power to ~900 (+64 dps) with no other buffs, pre-end game gear (+142 agility now) and only +7 of that agility in enchants.  Now, with the current incarnation putting 5 points in Ferocity might improve our team (me + pet) dps.

I will have to look at end game equipment and weapons to see what my potential ranged attack power might be.
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So, you really only have one end game weapon right now. Rhok'delar, the hunter epic quest item. You have to be part of a successful Onyxia raid to cap it, though.

[kandrathe]

So, you really only have one end game weapon right now.  Rhok'delar, the hunter epic quest item.  You have to be part of a successful Onyxia raid to cap it, though.
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For bow, yes. I'll probably have my Gorewood for a long, long time. Almost every item of armor, and every weapon I have ever had as quest rewards has been vendored. Blizzard(and half the server pops) doesn't want people to be Hunter's which is why life is so hard for us, and why we wenge so incessantly.