Rumor mill about Thotbot, Cosmos and IGE

[Alram]

The following excerpt of an article was posted on Slashdot.
http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/02/15/161219.shtm
I post it here for your consideration. If IGE really owns Thotbot and Cosmos feedback is actually being used to facilitate the farming and sale of items will that affect your decision to use it? What good alternatives are there to Cosmos for an improved UI?

"Ogaming is a hub site much like Warcry, with a sub-site about most of the major Massively Multiplayer Games out there. Some enterprising /whois work by the original author of the WowCensus thread led him to realize that OGaming was registered with the same street address used for IGE's New York Office. OGaming's registration information was updated on the 10th, and now displays the name and address of a proxy registration service. Further damning is the thought that at one point a page on the Ogaming site claimed to own Thottbot.com, a universally respected and utilized tool for World of Warcraft in-game information.

The page that once claimed this (an advertising page) is now blank, with the words "under construction" displayed there. The Internet Archive's last update for ogaming.com is this time last year, so there is no way to check on the authenticity of that claim. If it is true it's disquieting to say the least. Thottbot is a massive database of in-game quest, item, character, and drop frequency information. Thottbot's information was gained through the goodwill and work of World of Warcraft players. The popular UI enhancement, Cosmos, included a plugin that sent information from the user's playing experience back to Thottbot. This included locations of enemies, the types of loot dropped, items the character had, and other specific details. While Thottbot claims to only keep information that is pertinent to other players, with the revelation that they may be owned by the disreputable IGE their trustworthiness is out the window.

This revelation didn't stay quiet for long, with MMOG sites CorpNews, Grimwell.com, and Allakhazam all creating discussions of their own about this weighty topic.

The authenticity of this story is hard to prove or disprove at this point, with the OGaming.com and Thottbot.com domains having a proxy listed under their contact information. But if it's hard to believe that IGE would go to the trouble of owning a media outlet and a popular plugin, think again. Garthilk writes "Cindy Bowens, community manager for Sigil Games online and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, outlines their stance on secondary market items, and how they deal with IGE. Most interesting is the fact that IGE approached Sigil, and had offered to cut Sigil in on the revenue that IGE might make in the future."
Update: 02/15 20:07 GMT by Z: Drey pointed out in the comments that, at least for the time being, Google still has a cache of the page listing Thottbot as an Ogaming site."

[Ruvanal]

If IGE really owns Thotbot and Cosmos feedback is actually being used to facilitate the farming and sale of items will that affect your decision to use it?  What good alternatives are there to Cosmos for an improved UI?
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This is being blown out of proportion by these sites. As it is allakhazam.com does have a reason to smear against thottbot; the alladhazam site has advertising on all its pages for the comercial site ebgames.com. Thottbots site has to me never had any noticeable links to a comerical site on all its pages like this. I would not be surprised if I checked on some of those other sites that are raising a ruckus if they too did not have some sort of strong link to one or more comercial sites that are helping to sponser them.

As to the point of the data collected being used to aid some professional items formers; you too can use the site to gain the same type of information for your own personal use even if you do not have any of the thottbot tools for collecting the data set up on your game. It is basically like an open library of information for all on the net to persue and use as they see fit. I do not see any real boost that it can give to a 'professional farmer' that could not also be obtained by any other player that wants to persue using it in the same way.

[Tal]

The following excerpt of an article was posted on Slashdot.
http://games.slashdot.org/games/05/02/15/161219.shtm
I post it here for your consideration. If IGE really owns Thotbot and Cosmos feedback is actually being used to facilitate the farming and sale of items will that affect your decision to use it?  What good alternatives are there to Cosmos for an improved UI?[right][snapback]68159[/snapback][/right]

The same information can be gleaned from Allakhazam.

[Zarathustra]

It won't affect my decision at all. I don't see a need to use it in the first place.

[Treesh]

As I said in my post on the other thread about this, I see this as basically just an attempt to make Allakhazam become more used than it is. One more reason for me to avoid it. Yes, it's good to have sites out there with info like this since we know Blizzard sure as hell isn't going to actually give out game information, but the way Allakhazam is trying to promote itself first through spamming and now through mud-slinging, they definitely won't be getting visits from me.

[Alram]

As I said in my post on the other thread about this, I see this as basically just an attempt to make Allakhazam become more used than it is.  One more reason for me to avoid it.  Yes, it's good to have sites out there with info like this since we know Blizzard sure as hell isn't going to actually give out game information, but the way Allakhazam is trying to promote itself first through spamming and now through mud-slinging, they definitely won't be getting visits from me.
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Sorry. I didn't see the other thread.

[Bolty]

Yes, it's good to have sites out there with info like this since we know Blizzard sure as hell isn't going to actually give out game information, but the way Allakhazam is trying to promote itself first through spamming and now through mud-slinging, they definitely won't be getting visits from me.
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But understand that this is the standard of gaming sites, now. The "industry" of gaming fan-sites, while not exactly huge, has still become an industry. Gone are the days of the mom-and-pop fansites. In terms of such sites, the Lurker Lounge is a dinosaur - an example of how it used to be but isn't seen so much anymore.

The new industry is a set of highly competitive fansites run by companies that form aggregrate networks. While you may not have heard of them, if you dig around a bunch you'll find that most fansites are now owned or sponsored by a group of companies (around 10 major ones). Gamespy, with its "planet" sites, is probably the most famous, but there are many more.

Spamming and mud-slinging will become more common. Ad revenue drives the sites - they MUST get visitors to make cash to justify their existence. In a way, while this seems "evil" to some, it's actually a good thing for the end user - we get fansites that go crazy trying to outdo each other by being the best info and entertainment source. We never had anything like Thottbot for Diablo 1 - imagine how much easier that would have made Jarulf's job! :) The collaborative atmosphere that used to surround fansites, however, is long gone. We used to have that back in the Diablo 1 days, but about the only fansite that collaborates now is the Amazon Basin - and that's a guild site, a slightly different beast.

Old school fansites, like this one here, need to find a "niche" that they do well. We can't possibly compete when we're a hobby-driven website made up of all volunteer work, so we don't try. Want information? Use Thottbot. Want strategy? Come here. At least, that's the plan. :)

-Bolty

[Treesh]

But understand that this is the standard of gaming sites, now.  The "industry" of gaming fan-sites, while not exactly huge, has still become an industry.  Gone are the days of the mom-and-pop fansites.  In terms of such sites, the Lurker Lounge is a dinosaur - an example of how it used to be but isn't seen so much anymore.

The new industry is a set of highly competitive fansites run by companies that form aggregrate networks.  While you may not have heard of them, if you dig around a bunch you'll find that most fansites are now owned or sponsored by a group of companies (around 10 major ones).  Gamespy, with its "planet" sites, is probably the most famous, but there are many more.

Spamming and mud-slinging will become more common.  Ad revenue drives the sites - they MUST get visitors to make cash to justify their existence.  In a way, while this seems "evil" to some, it's actually a good thing for the end user - we get fansites that go crazy trying to outdo each other by being the best info and entertainment source.  We never had anything like Thottbot for Diablo 1 - imagine how much easier that would have made Jarulf's job!  :)  The collaborative atmosphere that used to surround fansites, however, is long gone.  We used to have that back in the Diablo 1 days, but about the only fansite that collaborates now is the Amazon Basin - and that's a guild site, a slightly different beast.

Old school fansites, like this one here, need to find a "niche" that they do well.  We can't possibly compete when we're a hobby-driven website made up of all volunteer work, so we don't try.  Want information?  Use Thottbot.  Want strategy?  Come here.  At least, that's the plan.  :)

-Bolty
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I understand that quite fine Bolty. However, it is my right to choose what sites to visit and what sites to not visit and I exercise my right in this case and many others. Just because it's standard behavior does not mean I have to like it or encourage it. "But everyone is doing it!" has never been an acceptable excuse for bad behavoir, and that's how I view it. Others are free to visit the site if they wish, and I won't stop them, but I choose to not reward bad behavior.

[Bolty]

Others are free to visit the site if they wish, and I won't stop them, but I choose to not reward bad behavior.
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So...where are you going to get your information from? Building huge databases of compiled game information isn't done "for free" anymore - a game like WoW is so enormous that the thought of it staggers my mind.

-Bolty

[Treesh]

So...where are you going to get your information from?  Building huge databases of compiled game information isn't done "for free" anymore - a game like WoW is so enormous that the thought of it staggers my mind.

-Bolty
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I don't have to get it from anywhere other than just playing the game. Since WoW doesn't have announced GM events, I don't have to go anywhere but the game. There's absolutely no need for me to search through the possible items I might get somewhere if I'm lucky. There's no need for me to see what other skills I can get at higher levels, but if I do want to know, I can just go to a level 60 trainer and look. There's no absolute need for maps outside of the game. There's no need to know the nitty gritty details of a game to play it. Does it help to enhance the game? For some, yes, but it's not a dire need. The databases are a nice little bonus, a perk, they aren't an absolute necessity.

Edit: Just wanted to make it clear that I don't object to websites being owned/run by organizations instead of just individuals for "free". I have no issue with networks of gaming sites. I have no issues with small ads on websites. What I have issue with is the tactics used by the sites in order to get their name out there. Advertising is fine; spamming and mud-slinging is not. For what it's worth, I'd visit Allakhazam if the owner hadn't been such an utter twit shortly after release - he spammed the WoW forums with the url, he spammed the chat channels in game with the url. Thottbot didn't do that at release. I don't know about how he acted in beta so I can only base my choice on what I know. And another for what it's worth, I generally go to Thottbot if I do want to look something up.

[Malakar]

I use Allakhazam for certain things that Thottbot lacks, like tradeskill information. I don't click their banners though. :P

[Kevin]

I have to laugh. Thott was not responding for me so I decided to go to Allakazam to check on something. The page is currently listed as being redisgned. I didn't pay a lot of attention to that because I saw a link for WoW right under it and figured, OK they are doing a new site and the old static site must be under that link. Well I was wrong. It was a link to a site that sells WoW items for real money (just like IGE). Mysupersales or something. I'm not linking too it, but you can see it if you hit allakazam today I bet.

So I guess all the hype and hyperbole about thott and IGE isn't all that different than the add sites that appear to pay for allakazam. (Yeah yeah, you don't have a data collection bot for allakazam but they are still linked pretty near and dear to something that Blizzard said is a major no-no).

[Roane]

I have to laugh.  Thott was not responding for me so I decided to go to Allakazam to check on something.  The page is currently listed as being redisgned.  I didn't pay a lot of attention [right][snapback]69193[/snapback][/right]

You've got the link misspelled slightly there. It's Allakhazam. That redesign thing is just a scam by some jerk who snapped up a close spelling domain to get you to click through to that other site.


Edit: Filled out sentence so it made more sense.

[Kevin]

You've got the link misspelled slightly there.  It's Allakhazam.  That redesign thing is just a scam by some jerk who snapped up a close spelling domain to get you to click through to that other site.
Edit: Filled out sentence so it made more sense.
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Oh ho! I was duped! Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't even notice (obviously). :)

[Occhidiangela]

Oh ho!  I was duped!  Thanks for pointing that out.  I didn't even notice (obviously).  :)
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Uh oh, there are now two Gnollguys? :w00t:

I thought we were antidupe around here.

(OK, horrid punnage, I confess.)

Occhi

[Mavfin]

Uh oh, there are now two Gnollguys?   :w00t:

I thought we were antidupe around here. 

(OK, horrid punnage, I confess.)

Occhi
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And, what's Treesh going to do with two of them? :P :shuriken:

[Treesh]

And, what's Treesh going to do with two of them?  :P  :shuriken:
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Get one of them to clone/dupe me so she can deal with the other one. :w00t:

[Tal]

Uh oh, there are now two Gnollguys?  :w00t:

I thought we were antidupe around here. 

(OK, horrid punnage, I confess.)

Occhi
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:blink: Don't even kid about such a thing! The world can barely handle one...

;) :w00t:

[Rinnhart]

You've got the link misspelled slightly there.  It's Allakhazam.  That redesign thing is just a scam by some jerk who snapped up a close spelling domain to get you to click through to that other site.
Edit: Filled out sentence so it made more sense.
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Quick note about "MySuperSales.com" (the auction site linked on the fake Alla's): they bought the rights to a majority of the "mom and pop" EQ fansites over the last couple years. It really hurt alot of the communities that made EQ as good as it was. New moderators, fat banners everywhere, and iffy updates killed alot.

I'll try to find the press release, but Yantis, the previous owner of mysupersales.com, sold the entire network to IGE for something like $10,000,000. So, yeah, this #$%&'s big money.

Gibson-esque how they've commodified the subculture.

EDIT: Named Names.

[Bolty]

I'll try to find the press release, but Yantis, the previous owner of mysupersales.com, sold the entire network to IGE for something like $10,000,000. So, yeah, this #$%&'s big money.
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Wait, 10 million?

I've always told the 2 to 3 companies that email me per week that if they want to give me a million dollars, I'll happily sell them the Lounge. Maybe I should up my price!

I'm shooting too low! :)

-Bolty