Looting Rant

[Mavfin]

My main is a 30 warrior now, and I keep my mitts off nice blue staves and try not to grab BOP stuff I won't use, but most BOE stuff, I roll for, and those who group with me know that I'll happily give it up to them IF THEY'RE GOING TO WEAR IT. If they're just going to sell it, I can do that as well as they. I also notice that the rogue or hunter who gripes (and it's always a rogue or hunter who whines, a mage/priest will ask for the item nicely) is usually the one slurping up all the good mail/mace drops, so I have little sympathy.

Any of them who say 'Hey, I needed that!, I could wear it now' or say early in the instance, "I'm looking for sucn-and-such" will get a pass from me on said item(s). Also, if someone wants a cloth green item that my warrior rolled for, and are going to send it to their alt, I won't give, as I have alts, too. Fair is fair. If *the char in the instance with us* is going to wear it, I'll give it to you, no problem.

If it seems like a really nice player, and not a 'gimme itemz', they're more likely to get them, too. I actually give up more than I refuse, but 'gimme itemz' will usually get a 'heck no' or similar from me.

One thing I WILL NOT tolerate in an instance is someone screwing with the loot rules halfway through. Messing with the loot rules w/o consulting with the rest of the group is time for me to leave. I no longer trust the leader, so it's time to go. Thankfully this only happened twice in an instance. The loot rules were changed, I said something about it, and the leader laughed me off and took the next 5 greens in a row, and I calmly stopped, left the group and hearthed out. I'm not greedy, but I do like my share. It's how I keep my gold supply up.

Anyone have any comments? Anyone think I was way off base? Just curious really, since I've only played about 3 weeks.

[Boutros]

In most of my pickup groups group loot is used and the rule is everyone rolls on any BOE, but cough it up if someone actually needs it, and only people who need roll on BOP, with a manual vendor roll if everyone passes. Generally you can tell by the stats if someone is really needs an item. If they ask for something of the Boar they probably are scamming you. :) Changing loot rules in the middle of a run is pretty lame, I probably would have left too.

To some extent it really does get better as you level up. I think Scarlet Monastery is the point at which people start to figure loot rules out. Most of my groups now have very few problems with actuall loot screwups and people saying "what's BOP mean?". The biggest problem I see now is people making deals for who will pass on what if a certain item drops, but then when the item actually drops someone decides they can't live without it or don't want to go home empty handed so they go back on their deal. I never make deals for items, but I'm usually the only plate user in the group.

[Concillian]

My usual sugestion for pickup groups is:

Everyone roll on every BoE
If someone needs it, swap a for sell BoE for a needed BoE or just give it up.
Don't roll on BoP until battle is done and people can say if they would use it. If nobody can use, then roll for vendoring.

It doesn't always work out that way. But that's the way I like it. This is very fair in that everyone gets to vendor items or disenchant them and BoPs go to who needs them.

This will get better when Blizzard implements the auto warn on BoP so everyone has Safe Roll. It won't keep a Hunter from rolling on a mace, but it will cut down on the accidents.

[Thawwing Light]

This is my usual method...

When I'm with a semi-trusted party, we'll usually call 'need' or 'greed' on an item, if it's our type. So, if mail drops, and I don't need it, I'll call greed. We manually roll for the greens in chests, and this usually works. In a tougher instance most of the rolls are 'need', and not much greed gets rolled. In the case of easy instances where we're helping someone, 90% or the rolls are greed, and everyone seems to come away with a fair share of loot.

Pickup... I hate going in pickup groups if I'm looking to get any loot. It's always some enchanter, or someone rolling for their hunter alt, even when I'm doing all the work (when 2 level 30s do Wailing Caverns for a level 20, it's not just out of the kindness of their hearts). Either have everyone roll on everything (the enchanters will do this anyway. I know their profession is a black hole for cash, but they don't need to drag everyone else in with them ;]) or be leader and enforce the need or greed rules with an iron fist.

[Guest]

I bail on any group that turns off group loot. I normally go by the rules you mentioned up front.

If its not BOP I roll an all items, but I give them up if someone says they will use it.

[savaughn]

Anyone have any comments?  Anyone think I was way off base?  Just curious really, since I've only played about 3 weeks.
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So, when we are about to do an instance, I always stop everyone at the entrance and we go through the "rules" until everyone agrees with them. This doesn't mean "I give the rules, and you live with them" - it means we discuss how we want to handle things. The rules always cover the following points:

Who is in charge? This person dictates all strategies unless they ask for help. The healer, tank, or person who knows the instance best.
How will we be doing pulling and who will specify it per pull? (for example: tank will pull but may ask hunter to pull for tricky bits)
How are we handling looting? (most parties I'm in do a roll on need only - if everyone passes, it's loot as needed)

This is also a good time to make sure everyone knows what quests we're doing, everyone's checked to make sure they really have the quests they think they do, resolve any issues with offtank/offhealer strategy, remind newbie mages/rogues not to DPS themselves into aggro, etc.

Works really well. Just bring up looting before you go in, and everyone agrees to be adult about it (even if you do have a 13yr old in them party).

[Treesh]

I never say, "I'm looking for <specific item>" before an instance simply because I don't bother to look ahead of time and see what items or even what types of items drop in various instances. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised when I get something neat rather than disappointed when I don't get that specific something.

If I can't use an item or simply don't want it, but someone else can use it I pass on the rolls even in public groups. If everyone passes and I'd like it for a different character of mine, I'll say so but usually if it's something that's good enough for another character of mine, it's good enough for someone in the group. Or else it's so high of a level that my other characters can't use it until it's their turn to run the instance themselves. ;) If I'm in a group with other Lurkers, then it's time for a greed roll after everyone has passed.

I always forget to roll for chests though. I just end up shift-clicking to open it. Luckily there have been no BoP items in them yet. Very rarely is there anything good in them, but if there is, I try to make sure that anyone who might be interested in it noticed that it came out of the chest and if they are actually interested, I'll just give it to them.

Maybe this is part of the reason why almost all of my characters are always broke. ;) :D

[Cryptic]

Never play with pickup groups if you can help it; form a cadre of good trustworthy friends you can group with when needed. Mutually understood need before greed with experienced players, maturing into a guild DKP system later on, is the way to go.

[kandrathe]

This would be a good topic to build a FAQ for and sticky. As a techie I live in the world of TLA's (three letter acronyms for you humans), but I find the abundance of them in WOW annoying. I mean it makes perfect sense that in an FVF raid some NE spammed AOE until OOM.

So, what are BOP and BOE explained for the novice?
Bind on Pickup -- Means if a rogue grabs a wand the mage gets angry.
Bind on Equip -- Means anyone can grab it and it can be moved around later.

How do you roll manually?
/random <X> [Y]: Generates a random number between X and Y, if Y isn't specified, then it will generate a number between 1 and X. Most often /random 100 is used.

So far I've been in only one group with FFA and I didn't like it so I left it. Most of the time the people I party with are courteous, if not I tell them I have to go and help them make their way to safety, then hearthstone home. In a way, it seems much like other MMO games in that if you want good loot and fairness you party with known people. If you are willing to settle for only the experience gained then do random pickup groups.

I think there are getting to be enough Lurkers around online consistently to start to form some parties and avoid the unguilded masses. We should be tolerant of those whose partying skills are not yet great, but who's hearts are in the right place and are willing to learn.

[Artega]

Sounds as though someone met a ninja-looter :)

We use Round Robin. BOE items don't matter worth a damn, since we can play "I want it more than he does!" later. BOP items are rolled for using the standard random command. If someone ninja-loots, they're instantly kicked from the party, and every major guild on both sides is informed of their act. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. They find themselves ostracized on the Horde side and ruthlessly hunted on the Alliance side.

[MongoJerry]

Never play with pickup groups if you can help it; form a cadre of good trustworthy friends you can group with when needed.&nbsp; Mutually understood need before greed with experienced players, maturing into a guild DKP system later on, is the way to go.

Playing in pickup groups is how I find and form my cadre of good trustworthy friends. I don't worry so much about people ninja looting in the early levels, because I know better equipment is just around the corner. When it happens, I'm just thankful that the person showed their personality early on, so I know never to party with that person later on. Meanwhile, I find out who the good players are -- both skillwise and personalitywise -- and start forming a friends list network.

I know it doesn't sound fair when someone ninja loots something, but just know that it will come back and bite them in the butt later on. If the person ninja loots on you, they'll ninja-loot on others, and by the time they get to level 60, no reasonably good players will party with them. This isn't like Diablo II where a person can ninja loot something and disappear into the crowd. The population of players on an individual server is small enough that people do get to know each other and run into each other a lot. I've been level capped for more than a month now, and I have yet to see a single instance of clear ninjalooting. There have been arguments over loot, of course, like whether a priest or mage can roll on the "warlock" dreadmist set. But I haven't seen a single instance of a clear ninja loot -- and that's even though I play in a lot of pickup groups.

[SoulEdge]

Going off a tangent here.

*rant on*

Was playing my young warlock today, and was working my way into one of the mines in Westfall, because I noticed a few tin nodes in it, and I wanted those nodes. When I started working on it, there was no other player around, so I had to slowly clear off all the enemies around the entrance, then slowly worked my way into the mine, just when I was engaged with the last enemy that guarded the first node within the mine, a few high level players rushed by, one took the nearest node, the rest went to the others. When I was done with the enemy, there no longer was any point going deeper into the mine, for the sound of mining rang from within, and soon the nodes disappeared from the mini map.

Bummer. :(

Oh well, bad luck I thought. So I went out and killed some gnolls. After a while I headed back to the mine, for the nodes showed up on the mini map again. Same deal, no other players around, all enemies respawned. Again I worked my way in slowly. Two nodes within sight, a tin and a copper, another player (again much higher level than the enemies in the area) appeared out of nowhere, engaged the monster near the tine node (dammit, I was about to hit that one!), so I went for the one guarding the copper. While I was looting the dead enemy, the other player was mining the tin node, and another player just ran passed me and started mining the copper node.

Bummer. <_<

Note to self: next time, mine the damn node first before looting the corpse.


Third time's the charm, right?

Same deal, same situation, this time though, half way through the process of getting to the node (silver nevertheless!), a dwarf warrior (again much higher level) came in. I would engaged one enemy, he would engaged another, all seemed well until we were very close to the silver node, one enemy stand between us, we had been "frog jumping" thus far in engaging the enemies, when I was engaging one, he would ran ahead and engaged the one deeper into the mine, and vice versa. So I killed mine, he was ahead of me, but he didn't engage the enemy, instead he stepped backward. I thought he needed a rest or something, so I engaged the enemy. Well, as soon as I did that, the dwarf warrior ran passed and started mining the silver node...

Bummer. :angry:


Just my luck I guess.

I am really disappointed and sadden, where are all the decent players?

*rant off*

[Artega]

Welcome to the fun world of mining.

It's been done to me, so I do it to them. Even better if they're Alliance, because then I kill them and camp them until they get the hell away from MY mineral nodes.

Honestly, though, I'd place more importance on leveling and less on production and gathering skills. Once you get your mount at 40ish, mining becomes MUCH, MUCH faster.

[Concillian]

Moral of the story?

Don't mine in Westfall unless you're much higher level.

Darkshore and Loch Modan are both MUCH better mining at your level. Go around the outside of Loch modan a couple times, or go from top to bottom of Darkshore.

Mining is one of those things that you either dedicate some time to or just ingore for a while. Mining in actual mines never works, unless you're much higher level, for just the reason you described. It's far better to go for nodes on mountainsides.

[Treesh]

Don't mine in Westfall unless you're much higher level.
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And if you go back when you are a higher level, you're screwing people over just like you were screwed over and the cycle starts over again. It really bugs me when higher levels come back and harvest, whether it's mining or herbing. I try to avoid doing that whenever possible precisely because I don't want to force others to go through what I've gone through at those lower levels. I still get enough herbs or ore without having to go back and take ore from some low level character. BTW, earlier today I kept getting beat for copper nodes by a level 48 pally. If he had just picked up mining, fine. You basically have to go back to lower areas, but if your mining is already good, leave those lower nodes for the young characters so they don't have to resort to robbing newbies when they get bigger.

[Abattoir]

Mining has been tough. When only 2 types of nodes give you skill increases and one of those 2 is green, it's extremly rough. The only pleasant experience I've had was today. This morning I was mining in the cave in NE Arathi, and a much higher level character came plunging in to work at nodes I was freeing up while doing the Myzrael? quest. Watching him swing his pick into the gold node I had just cleared, I frowned for a moment, then just asked if I could 'get a hit on that to increase my skill' -- okay, so my diction isn't great sometimes. You'll forgive me, I know you will-. He was the first person to ever agree, and I got one more point out of the deal. You can offer to leave the ore/stone/whatever in the node, you can get the successful increase just from successfully mining. This is not a bad thing, but it works with so few people.

[Mavfin]

And if you go back when you are a higher level, you're screwing people over just like you were screwed over and the cycle starts over again.&nbsp; It really bugs me when higher levels come back and harvest, whether it's mining or herbing.&nbsp; I try to avoid doing that whenever possible precisely because I don't want to force others to go through what I've gone through at those lower levels.&nbsp; I still get enough herbs or ore without having to go back and take ore from some low level character.&nbsp; BTW, earlier today I kept getting beat for copper nodes by a level 48 pally.&nbsp; If he had just picked up mining, fine.&nbsp; You basically have to go back to lower areas, but if your mining is already good, leave those lower nodes for the young characters so they don't have to resort to robbing newbies when they get bigger.
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I've given some higher-level players a piece or two of my mind over this, but not in Westfall. I've chewed on lots of 20+ players for mining in Dun Morogh, Elwynn, and the other starting areas, pointing out to them that those are the ONLY safe places for the young'uns to mine copper. About half act like they see my point. It's definitely on my pet peeve list.

[Artega]

If you're on a carebear server, you should simply go to Durotar. It's very possible to make a circuit of the zone and walk away with over 80 copper ore.

[Taeme]

I realised early on that items are, in fact, rather transient in WoW til the late game. The only big deal items are the blues boss drop, or quest items. Other stuff means very little to me, and even then, usually in an instance I have to do it a couple times to finish all the quests, so I'll probably take another shot at the item anyway. If not, well, there's higher level items to be found.

What I'm saying is, I don't really worry a great deal about items. None of the BoE items you get in an instance besides the rather rare cape/jewerly slots are never all that big of a deal - You can buy better on the AH. The BoP stuff is usually replaceable soon enough, minus a handful of uniquely potent items.

If someone messes around with the looting structure it's unsettling. There have been reports of some shady doings revolving around it, but whatever. My guild plays on group loot and round robin - RR was very popular due to the fact it still displays the "looting this will bind it to you'" message.



Mining is a useless hassle until you can get your mount. You should be only mining to gain skill up until then.

[Kevin]

If you're on a carebear server, you should simply go to Durotar.&nbsp; It's very possible to make a circuit of the zone and walk away with over 80 copper ore.
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And how does this help prevent screwing over the younger characters in that area? Oh, wait it doesn't.