Music that gets you

[Nystul]

For my money, whatever sonofabiscut first thought that sampling someone else's music for their own was a good idea needs to be fed into a woodchipper.  Sure, it is the same idea as the classical composer's habit of concocting "variations on a theme" by "so and so" but the modern shape of that strikes me as having hit the point of diminishing returns right out of the gate. 

My distaste for that habit started when MC Hammer abused Rick James' "Super Freak" (a great party tune) and was not helped by such messes as made with rapping/sampling "Walk This Way."  (With Steve Tyler's full endorsement and participation.)  Bah, it sells, sure, but BAH, it smells!
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I have mixed opinions on DJs and sampling. It allows a lot of freedom for lyrical focus. It also allows great dance mixes. I think the "problem" is that the MC gets the cover, but the mainstream (read: young white surburban American) is less interested in the lyrical art of rap than they are in good dance tracks (this may be changing, but it was certainly the case at the time of the examples you give). The end result is that Hammer turns into a star by being a front man for a DJ who picks good source material. Meanwhile, the street poets struggle at the open mic nights. However, is this really any different from Paula Abdul or Madonna getting the credit for singing dance tracks made by slick producers? I think it's just an inevitable consequence of musical recording/editting/playback processes getting good enough to be useful. The singer/rapper in front gives the music the basic lyrics and personality that people cling to, which are probably the main things that holds techno back.

People will always want to dance, so the popular music will always accomodate that. All other music is the stuff on the perimeter that mix together to influence the direction of dance music.

[Raelynn]

I was thinking more in the vein of Nightwish's 'Ghost Love Score' or Virgin Steele's 'Veni, Vidi, Vici', each 12 minute masterpieces. But if we are going for kilometric songs, what about Rhapsody's 'Gargoyles, Angels Of Darkness' or Manowar's  'Achiles, Agony, And Ecstasy (In Eight Parts)'.  :rolleyes:
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How about Dream Theater for epic songs? Though some are multipart, there's the 20 minute "A Change of Seasons" or the 40 minute "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence".

[Raelynn]

I don't think you're crazy. I just think your taste evolved as you brought in more influences. The same thing happened to me. I mainly listened to classic rock with some other bands mixed in until I was introduced to punk and ska. I listend to that for a long while until, again, a friend introduced me to metal and prog. Those are mainly what I listen to still, but my taste is always evolving within the genre (especially since prog is such a varied genre).

On a side note, I know of some bands you may enjoy based on your most recent taste:

Pain of Salvation: Prog metal. I suggest listening to their first two if you're into heavier sounding music, of the third and fourth if you're interested in an amazing blending of music and lyrics. This is my current favorite band. Don't touch their newest one first, as it is very difficult to get into and to understand.

Opeth: Dark Metal with progressive influences. The singer makes crazy transitions from growling to beautiful melodic clean vocals. The music itself is beautiful when it needs to be but can also be downright heavy. I am not a fan of "screaming" bands, but this band drew me in with the amazing melodies and thought put into the music behind the growling. Most of their stuff is good. My personal favorite (though considered their worst by hardcore fans) is Blackwater Park.

Dream Theater: Prog metal. One of the most popular prog bands right now. If you haven't listened to them before, try Images and Words, Metropolis Part 2, and/or Six degrees of Inner Turbulence. I haven't listened to them as much since their last album wasn't up to the standards of their past releases (at least that's what I feel).

Ayreon: Prog rock. This is a super group. The guitarist just gets guest vocalists for each album and records a big concept album. I loved the lastest album The Human Equation. One warning, the albums are big on analog synths, so if you don't like their sound, you might not like the albums.

Those have been getting a bunch of play time for me recently. There's a lot more in my collection, but I usually play a small group over and over for a certain amount of time then move on.

EDIT: I just noticed you're a fan of the idea that the band writes everything themselves. These all have that to a big extent.

[Occhidiangela]

Your post rates a "well said!" from me. :D A few rejoinders.

Meanwhile, the street poets struggle at the open mic nights.

Point 1. Starving artist is a cliché state of being based on reality. My brother walked in those shoes for some years as a guitar player.

Point 2. Remember The Last Poets? Street Rappers of the 70's. There stuff was stripped down rhythmic chant without techno wrapper. Socially fuelled. More Black Panther than Gangsta.

However, is this really any different from Paula Abdul or Madonna getting the credit for singing dance tracks made by slick producers?

Aye. In the age of MTV, what is a song? In their case, it is generally a burlesque. See also Shania Twain, best paid visual lap dancer in Nashville.

I think it's just an inevitable consequence of musical recording/editting/playback processes getting good enough to be useful. The singer/rapper in front gives the music the basic lyrics and personality that people cling to, which are probably the main things that holds techno back.

Techno strikes me as contextual, just as disco was. Disco being played at a dance club fit, disco on the radio did not really fit IMO. (Tastes Differ) Soul on your car radio, on the other hand, was a way to add warmth to your drive.

People will always want to dance, so the popular music will always accomodate that.  All other music is the stuff on the perimeter that mix together to influence the direction of dance music.

Indeed. Square dancing callers fit into a sqaure dancing event, but I don't want to listen to one on a radio either. :blink: A little Waylon and Willie, on the other hand, can fit in just right, although for driving music, I prefer ZZ Top.

Occhi

[ShadowHM]

  A little Waylon and Willie, on the other hand, can fit in just right, although for driving music, I prefer ZZ Top. 

Occhi
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Perfect driving music. :) And, when the destination is near, Golden Earring and "Radar Love" help me finish those last miles.

[Occhidiangela]

Perfect driving music.  :)    And, when the destination is near, Golden Earring and "Radar Love" help me finish those last miles.
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Radar Love.

Great minds work alike! :D Such driving music.

For years, Golden Earring was a one hit band, and then, finally, they got "When the Lady Smiles" and "Twilight Zone." While not Radar Love, those tunes took them out of the "one hit wonder" category.

Funny thing, Golden Earring. I ended up seeing them live three times, each time as a warm up for Aerosmith, Bad Company, (I forget the third) in the 1970's. Radar Love was the only tune worth listening to live then. The rest was "put in the ear plugs and wait for the headliner."

Occhi

[Magicbag]

While I listen to the whole spectrum, I always find solace in great lyricists with great messages. A few off the top of my head: 10000 Maniacs (w/ Natalie Merchant), REM, Midnight Oil, The Police, Tori Amos.

I also have my classics favorites: Pink Floyd (the wall is a great concept album). Early Billy Joel, The Pretenders. This includes "metal" acts like Def Leppard, Metallica, and Iron Maiden.

Recently I got into some DDR (Dance Dance Revolution.. sort of a musical arcade game that passes as excercise too). Most of the tracks were techno which I had not been exposed to too much. Suffice to say I enjoy it a lot although I miss the lyrical element often (same for some classical).

This allowed me to get into some techno metal and epic metal (which is really just progressive metal with a suped up tempo). I like Lake of Fire and Razed in Black, if you're looking for something like this.

Lastly I'll pay tribute to some talented people/bands that I really respect for their talent, but can't empathize too much with. Eminem, Rush, Price, Sex Pistols.

-MB

[TPJ]

I sort of whish I had been more into this musich back then.  I'm speaking of bands such as Metallica, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden and many others, too many to list.
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You're not at all crazy. I've got a few years on you (I'm 36) and was lucky enough to be around when some of these bands were showing up. I saw Rage Against the Machine open for House of Pain. There was a label rep outside handing out cassette singles of 'Bullet in the Head' telling us that RAtM was going to be on the next Lollapalooza tour. I was there to see House of Pain - but after Rage's show, I felt myself just staring at the stage - trying to figure out what it was that just blew me away. That was one of the most incredible performances I had ever seen.

I saw Jane's Addiction open for Iggy Pop. This time, however, I was there for Jane's. They kicked ass.

I thought I was going to see Metallica open for Ozzy. However, before the tour reached Florida, Ozzy had booted them off his tour. It was pretty clear he was getting his ass handed to him by his opening act each night - and was tired of that. Too bad for me.

Heh. Soundgarden. I remember interviewing Keith Morris of Circle Jerks many years ago. He saw the Jane's Addiction sticker on my co-worker's notebook and asked if she liked them. She said 'yeah'. He then said, "go find some stuff from Soundgarden. They're like a slower, better Jane's." I went out and picked up the 'Screaming for Life' EP. At the time I thought they sounded more like Black Sabbath.

Let's face it. Music runs in circles. We're coming out of a 'Pop Radio' nightmare (Britney, Christina, etc.) and will surely end back up with decent music. The industry has always operated in cycles. Bands like Franz Ferdinand, White Stripes, Jet, and others are starting to gain a bit of momentum. They write and perform their own music. That's a step in the right direction, huh?

Anyway - don't give up. If you search, you'll find bands making the music you like. They're doing it right now. You just have to find them.

[Doc]

You're not at all crazy. I've got a few years on you (I'm 36) and was lucky enough to be around when some of these bands were showing up. I saw Rage Against the Machine open for House of Pain. There was a label rep outside handing out cassette singles of 'Bullet in the Head' telling us that RAtM was going to be on the next Lollapalooza tour. I was there to see House of Pain - but after Rage's show, I felt myself just staring at the stage - trying to figure out what it was that just blew me away. That was one of the most incredible performances I had ever seen.

I saw Jane's Addiction open for Iggy Pop. This time, however, I was there for Jane's. They kicked ass.

I thought I was going to see Metallica open for Ozzy. However, before the tour reached Florida, Ozzy had booted them off his tour. It was pretty clear he was getting his ass handed to him by his opening act each night - and was tired of that. Too bad for me.

Heh. Soundgarden. I remember interviewing Keith Morris of Circle Jerks many years ago. He saw the Jane's Addiction sticker on my co-worker's notebook and asked if she liked them. She said 'yeah'. He then said, "go find some stuff from Soundgarden. They're like a slower, better Jane's." I went out and picked up the 'Screaming for Life' EP. At the time I thought they sounded more like Black Sabbath.

Let's face it. Music runs in circles. We're coming out of a 'Pop Radio' nightmare (Britney, Christina, etc.) and will surely end back up with decent music. The industry has always operated in cycles. Bands like Franz Ferdinand, White Stripes, Jet, and others are starting to gain a bit of momentum. They write and perform their own music. That's a step in the right direction, huh?

Anyway - don't give up. If you search, you'll find bands making the music you like. They're doing it right now. You just have to find them.
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Just a brief sidenote.

I heard the White Stripes "Fell in Love With a Girl" and thought I had just been time warped back to the 70s. They captured the sound perfectly, and for a brief moment, I was hopeful for the music scene.

Now, Motley Crue is not only back together, but touring, with that song "If I Die Tomorrow."

Pardon me while I try to slit my wrists with an 8-track tape. There is no hope. None at all.

[Occhidiangela]

Just a brief sidenote.

I heard the White Stripes "Fell in Love With a Girl" and thought I had just been time warped back to the 70s. They captured the sound perfectly, and for a brief moment, I was hopeful for the music scene.

Now, Motley Crue is not only back together, but touring, with that song "If I Die Tomorrow."

Pardon me while I try to slit my wrists with an 8-track tape. There is no hope. None at all.
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Doc, you could be a hamburger today, since you are on a roll!

That's two wonderful word pictures in one thread, thankiee thankee thankee. "Slit my wrists with an 8 track tape" is Learyesque. (Pop to metal libidinous comparison the other gem.)

I was no fan of Motley Crue when they came out. Unlike a good wine, those mangled fruits do not improve with age. Why couldn't their band plane crash and burn, instead of Lynyrd Skynyrd's or Stevie Ray Vaughan's? Come on, Powers of the Universe, help us out a little here: it just ain't fair! I am feeling particularly itchy today, since Corpus Christi is soon to host a

Hillary Duff Concert.

EEEEEEEEEEEP! Make it stop, Mommie, make it stop!!!

I may need to find one of those Gillette 8 track tapes unless I get some relief from the madness, as Motley Crue is also in town. Maybe they should be her warm up act? Or maybe she should be faithful her role as Southern California Bimbo and perform as one of the Crue's groupies . . . if they'd permit it. Wait a minute, we are talking about the Crue here . . . sure they would. :P

Occhi

[Daemon]

Bands like Franz Ferdinand, White Stripes, Jet, and others are starting to gain a bit of momentum.

Yes, I have to admit I had forgot about those bands at the time I wrote that. Although I still feel like they're nothing like my old fav's, they are standing out from the whole scene, and felt like a splash of fresh water in the face when I heard them.

They write and perform their own music. That's a step in the right direction, huh?

This is something I respect and appreciate much about a band/artist. This way they are able to create something original, unlike the Henry Ford-modeled formula of separately produced lyrics/music/performance.

I also figured out part of my problem, which is that I tend to associate music to past events that I remember fondly. Be it old friends, childhood memories of familly gathering, very specific times/events, I found out I have most of it linked to certain music. I just know this stuff is in the past and that I won't ever live it again.

That just means that I'm a big'ol nostalgic, and the fact that I am a music lover just gives me a bias towards oldies. I still stand by my opinion that the music scene is not like it was back when I was young(er). But as you said TPJ, most things affected by social trends do tend to cycle around. So there is some hope left out there I guess! :D

Cheers!
-D

[Doc]

Click for some punk kittens.

A fun site, Occhi you might like the cover of Corksucker Blues. Just look for the swearing, you can't miss it.

Also, The Vines Outathaway is on the site, it's not bad.

[Occhidiangela]

Click for some punk kittens.

A fun site, Occhi you might like the cover of Corksucker Blues. Just look for the swearing, you can't miss it.

Also, The Vines Outathaway is on the site, it's not bad.
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Thanks for the link, that punk kitten band on the gazebo was giggly and it echoed of "The Spiders From Mars.

Didn't care for the pingpong table one, but tastes differ.

Occhi

[Nystul]

Warning: links contained in this post contain a couple profanities and annoying advertisements for womens' underwear or something.

Your post rates a "well said!" from me.  :D  A few rejoinders.
Point 1.  Starving artist is a cliché state of being based on reality.  My brother walked in those shoes for some years as a guitar player.

Point 2.  Remember The Last Poets?  Street Rappers of the 70's.  There stuff was stripped down rhythmic chant without techno wrapper.  Socially fuelled.  More Black Panther than Gangsta.
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1) I can relate personally to the concept of "starving artist", although I have never been without a roof or a meal and never really had any plans on turning my hobbies into careers (we can all dream though, right?).

2) There are still plenty of socially fueled raps with minimal production, but they usually aren't hit singles. Anyways, I don't remember The Last Poets. It sounds a bit before my time. I was introduced to rap by Run DMC and the Beasties. I also really liked Vanilla Ice and Hammer as a kid. :wacko: The whole Gangsta thing, and the bragging and dissing, was a big turnoff, and I tuned out on rap for about 15 years. When the Eminem craze happened, some of what I heard was insightful and/or funny, but everything was so over the top that I didn't really pay attention. Then one day I heard "Mockingbird" ( http://www.lyricsdepot.com/Eminem/mockingbird.html ) on the radio, and suddenly I am on a rap binge. Being a drummer and wannabe poet, I suppose it was bound to happen eventually. I also like this one from when Eminem was truly one of the aforementioned "starving artists": http://www.lyricsdepot.com/eminem/its-ok.html

Not the deepest lyrics in the world, but stuff I can relate to. And the rhymes are absolutely insane (although a lot of them are hard to see reading a lyrics sheet).

[[wcip]Angel]

How about Dream Theater for epic songs?  Though some are multipart, there's the 20 minute "A Change of Seasons" or the 40 minute "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence".
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*gasp*
I detect a soulmate!

Of the few bands I currently adore, Dream Theater and Pain of Salvation rank as #1 and #2 respectively. (Liquid Tension being a close third).

Pain of Salvation: Prog metal. I suggest listening to their first two if you're into heavier sounding music, of the third and fourth if you're interested in an amazing blending of music and lyrics. This is my current favorite band. Don't touch their newest one first, as it is very difficult to get into and to understand.

I just recently (year and a half ago) discovered this great band when a nice chap on another board suggested a song caller "Dryad of the woods", as he thought it might go well with my taste in music at the time. It did! As I began to delve deeper and deeper into the more heavy bits and pieces of "Remedy Lane" I fell completely in love. There's not a single song on that album that I would ever consider skipping (except for the title track, which is only 2 minutes of weird noices :P)

After Remedy Lane, I got my hands on "12:5", a fantastic live acoustic performance. The measure of a true artist is his/her competence when performing live. There's no doubt PoS PoSsess (:P) true skill.

I think you're right about "Be" (their latest album) though. It *is* extremely weird for a Prog-rock album. It's a mesh of all kinds of styles and genres, from the traditional rock and ballad that you find in most rock-albums to negro spirituals and folk music, which seldom appear on a rock-record. (At least the ones I know of.) In addition to the blending of genres, there's also a lot of talking "and stuff." My favourites are Dae Pecuniae, Iter Impius and Martius/Nauticos II. Dae Pecuniae is just *so* self-indulgent. I mean, the climax of the song lasts from 6.29 to 9.13. That's almost 3 whole minutes!! Amazing stuff.

Iter Impius is just beautiful. The piano in the beginning, the violin coming in later on.. It's just breathtaking. (Although, when the violin kicks in, for some reason, I always think of Joss Whedon's cancelled cult series Firefly. I think it might have something to do with the similarities between Iter Impius and the themesong for the show.)

As for Dream Theater, I love most of their stuff, and I have their entire discography (with the exception of "When dream and day unite" for some reason). During the first year of my romance with this band, I felt "The Spirit carries on" was the best piece of music ever written. It's still one of my all time favourite songs, but the live version of Hollow Years from Budokan is perfect. Petrucci's solo far outranks anything else he's ever done.

Hollow Years (live!)
It's so immensely better than the original studio-version (which is also very good), it's impossible to describe. Just have a listen.

[Occhidiangela]

Anyways, I don't remember The Last Poets.  It sounds a bit before my time.  http://www.lyricsdepot.com/eminem/its-ok.html[/url]

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Last Poets Link

If you don't have much taste for SDS and Black Panther demagoguery, this link is reasonably concise and shorter on the hot air than some others. I was exposed to two of their records while I was a sophomore in high school by a liberally minded friend who sincerely listened to the issues behind "The Revolution." I won't say he felt white guilt, but he sincerely believed that "we can all do better" and "we oughta make things better."

Glad to see that The Last Poets have not been forgotten. I found their rhythmic chant cmpelling as a teenager.

Occhi

[TPJ]

I also figured out part of my problem, which is that I tend to associate music to past events that I remember fondly.  Be it old friends, childhood memories of familly gathering, very specific times/events, I found out I have most of it linked to certain music.  I just know this stuff is in the past and that I won't ever live it again.

That just means that I'm a big'ol nostalgic, and the fact that I am a music lover just gives me a bias towards oldies.  I still stand by my opinion that the music scene is not like it was back when I was young(er).
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I have to agree with you there.

And as far as the music scene not being what it was, I have VERY fond memories of shows/music that I'll never forget. I've already mentioned interviewing Keith Morris, but I also interviewed G.B.H. (and played some soccer with Colin), Anthrax (twice), and spent more than one weekend at River Phoenix's house near Gainesville - a few times with people like Michael Stipe and bands like Fugazi.

I remember going to see D.R.I. back in 1986. The ticket was $6. I bought a t-shirt for $5. The guy behind the counter who sold it to me? Their lead singer. Obviously, things will never be what they were.

I was lucky enough to catch Nine Inch Nails on their (his?) first tour. I saw them in Miami in the summer of 1990. They played with Meat Beat Manifesto and MC900 Ft. Jesus. I missed both opening acts (sorry to say), but made it in before Trent hit the stage. I don't know if I'll ever see another show like that. Outstanding.

When living in Gainesville, I saw Green Day perform in the back of a local record store. They played in front of about 25 people. Again, not something you'll see happen again.

No worries, though. Get involved in music that is being made RIGHT NOW. Find the artists you like. CREATE memories that you can share with others 15 years from now when the tykes start complaining about 'current' music!

[Daemon]

Nine Inch Nails on their (his?) first tour

rofl :lol:

No worries, though. Get involved in music that is being made RIGHT NOW. Find the artists you like. CREATE memories that you can share with others 15 years from now when the tykes start complaining about 'current' music!

Sound advice! :)

-D

[Guest]

Buh bye now.

-Griselda

[Bam-Bam]

I was lucky enough to catch Nine Inch Nails on their (his?) first tour. I saw them in Miami in the summer of 1990. They played with Meat Beat Manifesto and MC900 Ft. Jesus. I missed both opening acts (sorry to say), but made it in before Trent hit the stage. I don't know if I'll ever see another show like that. Outstanding.

I caught this same tour when they hit Charm City, summer 1990. MC900 Ft. Jesus was not with them, but I DID catch the Meat Beat Manifesto. By the time Trent hit the stage, I was already worn out. Meat Beat Manifesto just put on an incredible show for a band whose content was not primarily instrument driven.

I also had the good fortune of working as a security guard at a concert venue in Maryland while in highschool. Highlights from that include Robert Plant's solo tour (vintage 88 or so), and carrying David Lee Roth on a surfboard as he sang "California Girls". Neither of those two had the greatest of solo content, musically speaking, but their live performances were something special. They knew how to work a crowd. I remember John Cougar Mellencamp (at least that what he was using at the time), also putting on an extended show. I think his show was at least an hour or and hour and a half longer than any other headliner from that summer. Folks sure got their money's worth that evening.

One thing I learned from that stint: I got to see many artists that were not part of my normal listening set, whose live performances were not to be missed. Of course, there were also bands I like who should have stayed in the studio, if you know what I mean. <_<