Def Spec -- Should I, Really?

[Malakar]

You know, to be really honest here, you ARE oversensitive. You guys completely derailed the topic and got really into some heated debate over a term that, more or less, means exactly what it's supposed to mean and you in fact are. Never mind any sort of debate between pvp and pve, the reactions are telling.

Maybe it's just me, but I like this place not only for the intelligent discussions, but for the higher level of respect between people. This is one of the few places in society left (much less a gaming community) with a reasonable level of respect, and again maybe it's just me, but it pisses me off when I feel there's a threat to that. I've seen Tal defend the air of respect here when he's not the one being disrespected, so no, I wouldn't say that just because he happens to be this time that makes him a carebear.

Just because I like a little respect around here doesn't mean I can't stand a little joking around though; quite the contrary. But it depends on the joke and who it's coming from. What I HATE are those people that say things being seriously insulting, then try to hide behind the lie that they were just kidding around. So if someone tells me it's coming from someone who has shown very little respect for other types of gameplay in the past, I'm going to take what they have to say a little bit more seriously.

I personally play on a PVP server. I don't feel the need to call others carebears. I don't have a problem with the term either. I'd probably move to a PVE server if I had a chance to transfer my characters, and then if others called me a carebear, it wouldn't bother me in the least. But I can understand why it may offend others in certain situations. And I personally don't think the term itself is funny in the least, so I don't see the point in defending 'normal' usage of it.

Why bother being insulted in the first place? You turn a useful thread into something ugly over a word that for all intents and purposes is just goofy nerd slang. How revolting.

What would you prefer:
The occasional thread like this turning into something ugly.
or
We all relax and sit back while this place turns into something similar to the official WOW forums.

[playingtokrush]

I play only on PvE servers, and I don't mind them being called "carebear" servers in the least. Likening someone calling a PvE server a "carebear" server to calling a PvP server an "immature ganker" server is really quite a distortion of terms. I'd say a more apt comparison is calling Asheron's Call's PvP server (Darktide) "Quaketide." The amount of jest shown in this term is comparable.

Now if people were using the term "whiney wuss" server instead of "carebear," I'd see more of a reason to take offense or to retort back with the "immature ganker" server remark.

[Bolty]

Not addressed to Malakar here, but really the thread:

I think we need to chill out a bit. There are some constants in this world:

1) RPGs are by their nature not very good competitive games. True "balance" is impossible, although you can come close, and it is given that those who play longer and have better equipment have advantages. Real competitive games have level playing fields, which WoW will never have.

2) In all RPGs, you will have the PK/PvP element that considers themselves better than the "other" players. It was the same with PKs in Diablo II - i.e. "You just hate me because I'm so much of a better player than you, I've killed 100 people today" etc. Never mind that equipment and skill setups for PK'ing would be completely different than those for normal play.

3) You have two options - either let them bother you, or realize how stupid it is and ignore them. The argument is especially irrelevant when you can PvP all you like on a PvE server. With the new honor system going in, there will be mass PvP fights occuring every night on all servers. I suspect that you'll see a lot more people walking around flagged once the system goes in. The key with the PvE server is that you can actually get something done in Booty Bay. :)

4) Most people aren't like this. Although it may not seem like it, most people playing on either server are into their thing and don't feel like slinging the "carebear" or "immature ganker" labels around. When Mongo and I debated PvP/PvE, we never once called each other that. Mongo knew that I spent months on the PvP server and threw around the killing just like everyone else. Even though I only ever fought in self defense, dozens of players fell to my spells over my time there. Does that make me a better player? No, it just means that I had to make more corpse runs while I played over those months. Yay. But unfortunately, that 5-10% of PvP players really ARE immature gankers, and it gives them all a bad name (just as the 5-10% of really BAD PvE players out there give all the PvE server players a bad name). Thus the labels.

Anyhow, if someone calls you a carebear, just smile and nod. Not a big deal. They have demonstrated that they have little respect for others and belong on their server where they can't bother you. The difference in general chat between a PvP server and a PvE server is striking - just log in and listen to it sometime. Hostility levels are significantly higher on a PvP server. It's a breeding ground for miscontent.

Now, when are we raiding the Undercity? :)

-Bolty

[playingtokrush]

The difference in general chat between a PvP server and a PvE server is striking - just log in and listen to it sometime.  Hostility levels are significantly higher on a PvP server.[right][snapback]70295[/snapback][/right]

I'm not sure there's a constant like that. My main server (PvE) is full of hostility in general chat.

[Treesh]

I'm not sure there's a constant like that.  My main server (PvE) is full of hostility in general chat.
[right][snapback]70298[/snapback][/right]

And frequently, the PvP servers' general chat is actually worse. Rather sad, isn't it? Every now and then I actually turn on general chat just to see if it's gotten better since the last time I listened in. Sometimes I can keep it up for 5 minutes before I get tired of it, both on PvP servers and PvE servers. It was rather funny though to listen to on the brand new servers when I was checking their gameclocks for time zone settings. Many cries of "FIRST!" that were only replied with taunts and mocking remarks and then cries of "OMG! Look at all the people!" Very silly.

[playingtokrush]

And frequently, the PvP servers' general chat is actually worse.  Rather sad, isn't it?  Every now and then I actually turn on general chat just to see if it's gotten better since the last time I listened in.  Sometimes I can keep it up for 5 minutes before I get tired of it, both on PvP servers and PvE servers.  It was rather funny though to listen to on the brand new servers when I was checking their gameclocks for time zone settings.  Many cries of "FIRST!" that were only replied with taunts and mocking remarks and then cries of "OMG!  Look at all the people!"  Very silly.
[right][snapback]70315[/snapback][/right]

I ran a Tauren warrior to level 6 on Burning Legion back on release week (my main server was down), and there wasn't any arguing in general. I really think general chat hostility is not strongly influenced by server type.

[Mavfin]

And frequently, the PvP servers' general chat is actually worse.  Rather sad, isn't it?  Every now and then I actually turn on general chat just to see if it's gotten better since the last time I listened in.  Sometimes I can keep it up for 5 minutes before I get tired of it, both on PvP servers and PvE servers.  It was rather funny though to listen to on the brand new servers when I was checking their gameclocks for time zone settings.  Many cries of "FIRST!" that were only replied with taunts and mocking remarks and then cries of "OMG!  Look at all the people!"  Very silly.
[right][snapback]70315[/snapback][/right]

Call me 'DAD!' if you want, but I have a tendency to chide the worst of the children on the general channel where I'm at, especially if I'm in the Barrens or Ashenvale, where the hostility is the worst (probably because a lot of the raiding is XR and Astranaar) and I can usually shame or otherwise get the worst to quit their crap in a minute or two. It makes for a better atmosphere, usually. I usually leave general on, as I'm one of those helpful people who shares knowledge about how to find things and how to make money, and all that kind of thing. (see above about 'DAD!') However, I'm on two 'medium' population servers, so general isn't a scrolling spam-farm, either.

Of course, if I chide one a little and get cussed out in return, I take appropriate action on that, too. No need for that. They need to be reminded they don't own the server and can't abuse people at their whim. :ph34r: Usually I just have to remind them that it's not a good idea to go around doing that, but I have had to report a couple. I figure if they'll get that abusive with me, they're abusing anyone and everyone and need to be dealt with.

Note that this doesn't mean I act like the chat police. I don't. I just don't like the abusive, nasty types who are being that way just because they can, and I will let them know about it. If they want to be abusive or nasty to me, I'll take care of it. I have better things to do than be cussed out by a 12-year-old who's using Daddy's credit card to play the game, and thinks he's hot s***. I remind him that he's only half right.

[Malakar]

Well one thing's for sure. On PVP servers you'll frequently get people on general chat complaining that their class sucks at PVP. Of course, this is common to every single class. :)

[Guest]

I would call you 'oversensitive".

We could all be really careful and only communicate like were writing a text book. But that lame.

There is a very real difference in how the game is played on the 2 server types, and its reasonable that people can have some what low opinions of the server type they dont like. There is a difference between insults and personal attack and and a good natured barb.


Also the PvE servers are universally refered to as "Carebear" on the PvP servers(or at least on mine). I dont see the term as beiing any worse than when PvP is refered to "Ganking". I use both words.

[Guest]

Injecting the "gay" word fight is just as lame as injecting the "nazii" word fight.


Get over yourself.

[Guest]

If you play on a PvP server its always reasonable to build for PvP(which means damage in the case of a warrior).

If your in a guild on a PvP server that wants you to make a PvE build that means one of 2 things.
-The guild is a PvE focused guild(which is fine, but maybe its not what you want.)
-The guild is being selfish wanting you to be gimp for their benifit(which is bad.)

[Mavfin]

I would call you 'oversensitive".

We could all be really careful and only communicate like were writing a text book. But that lame.

There is a very real difference in how the game is played on the 2 server types, and its reasonable that people can have some what low opinions of the server type they dont like.  There is a difference between insults and personal attack and and a good natured barb.
Also the PvE servers are universally refered to as "Carebear" on the PvP servers(or at least on mine). I dont see the term as beiing any worse than when PvP is refered to "Ganking". I use both words.
[right][snapback]70341[/snapback][/right]

Ghostie, read Bolty's post again, and see where you fit, and don't use the term anymore here. Thanks.

[Guest]

Watch it - I never used the term here. Dont go saying I did.
I might like the term, but I didnt use it.


Tal stated he wasnt "oversensitive" - I disagreed politely but clearly.

[Mavfin]

Watch it - I never used the term here. Dont go saying I did.
I might like the term, but I didnt use it.
Tal stated he wasnt "oversensitive" - I disagreed politely but clearly.
[right][snapback]70374[/snapback][/right]

You were *defending* the use of the term, which is the same thing in my eyes. Let it go. Be done with it.

[Guest]

BTW - whats with "again". My original post was made before Boltys.

I have no problem with respecting and abiding with his stance because its his forum, not mine.
I just dont like the insinuations that Im trying to go against the rules.

[Mavfin]

BTW - whats with "again". My original post was made before Boltys.

I have no problem with respecting and abiding with his stance because its his forum, not mine.
I just dont like the insinuations that Im trying to go against the rules.
[right][snapback]70388[/snapback][/right]

The post I quoted of yours was timestamped at 11:44 AM. Bolty's was at 12:04 AM, which is 11 hours, 40 minutes earlier than yours. Those are the facts. Are you trying to moderate the moderators, or what are you trying to do? Thank you for understanding what Bolty's post said, Ghostiger. Are we quite done now, or are you going to drag it out some more?

[Xanthix]

Injecting the "gay" word  fight is just as lame as injecting the "nazii" word fight.
Get over yourself.[right][snapback]70344[/snapback][/right]

I would like to take this moment to invoke Godwin's Law. For the sake of the board and this thread, please stop the arguing. :)

[Guest]

Sorry I misread the time. I hadnt noticed his post when I posted(a string I didnt follow).

[Occhidiangela]

Note: Snip and numbers added for clarity. No text changed by me.

1.  But it depends on the joke and who it's coming from. What I HATE are those people that say things being seriously insulting, then try to hide behind the lie that they were just kidding around. 

==Snip==

2.  What would you prefer:
The occasional thread like this turning into something ugly.
or
We all relax and sit back while this place turns into something similar to the official WOW forums.
[right][snapback]70238[/snapback][/right]

1. Must say I agree. That sort of behaviour is not limited to gaming forums. The news is full of "I misspoke" apologies from exalted ones.

2. Yes, we get the occasional ugly thread, I have been in and started my share of them (blushes). That said, this place will never turn into something like WoW official forums as long as I can do anything in my power to prevent it, and so long as Bolty and Gris and Mav are around to lay their Oil of Wisdom on the troubled waters. If we are to experience such profound entropy, it will occur despite a battleship's magazine load of flames sent outbound to any deserving idiots.

Occhi

[Mavfin]

Sorry I misread the time. I hadnt noticed his post when I posted(a string I didnt follow).
[right][snapback]70393[/snapback][/right]

Fair enough. Thank you.