PvP

[Alram]

I do not like PvP and I am not a casual player. I never would have bought WoW if it were not for the fact that I had been led to believe that I would not have to be the victim of PvP on a PvE server. On a PvE server theoretically, if you don't want to engage in PvP you don't have to and your gameplay experience will be unaffected by PvP. We all know that is not true.

1. The opposing faction kills off NPCs which are essential for travel, questing, and the acquisition of skills. This has caused me masive disruption of my gameplay.
2. Battles between opposing factions cause massive lag problems for those who are not involved in the battle.

I wish they would remove PvP from the PvE servers.

[Raelynn]

I do not like PvP and I am not a casual player. I never would have bought WoW if it were not for the fact that I had been led to believe that I would not have to be the victim of PvP on a PvE server. On a PvE server theoretically, if you don't want to engage in PvP  you don't have to and your gameplay experience will be unaffected by PvP.  We all know that is not true.

1. The opposing faction kills off NPCs which are essential for travel, questing, and the acquisition of skills. This has caused me masive disruption of my gameplay.
2. Battles between opposing factions cause massive lag problems for those who are not involved in the battle.

I wish they would remove PvP from the PvE servers.
[right][snapback]74645[/snapback][/right]

Unfortunately, in any game where there is any PvP, they most likely will not remove PvP completely. Though it does cause problems, there are too many people that want things as they are now, with consensual PvP as it is, even though half the time it disrupts other people's gameplay.

A possible suggestion for you is to look into Dungeons and Dragons Online. It's being made by Turbine, who made Asheron's Call, so they have a decent background in online games. Additionally, at launch, in the very least, there will be no PvP at all. The only draw back is it is a much more group-oriented game than WoW is. If you don't mind that, you might want to consider heading to their site and signing up for the closed beta. I did, but mostly because I enjoy D&D and thought Turbine did a great job with the original AC.

[Artega]

I do not like PvP and I am not a casual player. I never would have bought WoW if it were not for the fact that I had been led to believe that I would not have to be the victim of PvP on a PvE server. On a PvE server theoretically, if you don't want to engage in PvP  you don't have to and your gameplay experience will be unaffected by PvP.  We all know that is not true.

1. The opposing faction kills off NPCs which are essential for travel, questing, and the acquisition of skills. This has caused me masive disruption of my gameplay.
2. Battles between opposing factions cause massive lag problems for those who are not involved in the battle.

I wish they would remove PvP from the PvE servers.
[right][snapback]74645[/snapback][/right]

Arbitrarily removing PvP from the PvE servers would not only completely change the way the game functions as a whole (and make Honor on PvE servers utterly pointless), but it would also rob PvE people of the chance to go level a town to break up the monotony of chain instancing.

NPCs stay dead for five minutes at most, so it's not a "massive disruption", as you said. Go kill a few extra mobs and come back. I doubt you're so pressed for playing time that the absence of a quest NPC for five minutes will wreck your day/night.

And if the Horde/Alliance are camping your town, either go quest somewhere else or request assistance from higher-level players. This might be harder to do on a PvE server than on a PvP server (where towns are safer, ironically), but I'm sure there will be some bored level 60's wandering around that would be happy to deal with the bored level 60's busily looting, raping, and pillaging the town in question.

[Tal]

1. The opposing faction kills off NPCs which are essential for travel, questing, and the acquisition of skills. This has caused me masive disruption of my gameplay.
2. Battles between opposing factions cause massive lag problems for those who are not involved in the battle.
[right][snapback]74645[/snapback][/right]

Give it a few days for the knuckleheads to realize they're not getting any honor points for killing NPCs.

[Artega]

Give it a few days for the knuckleheads to realize they're not getting any honor points for killing NPCs.
[right][snapback]74699[/snapback][/right]

Unless PvE PvP operates differently than on PvP servers, they're not killing NPCs for honor, they're killing them to pick a fight.

On Bloodscalp, we can kill four Southshore guards and have 15v15 within 20 minutes.

[Tal]

On Bloodscalp, we can kill four Southshore guards and have 15v15 within 20 minutes.
[right][snapback]74702[/snapback][/right]

Yes and as soon as the knuckleheads realize this the happier folks will be because quest givers won't be killed. :)

[Artega]

Yes and as soon as the knuckleheads realize this the happier folks will be because quest givers won't be killed. :)
[right][snapback]74703[/snapback][/right]

Ah, but killing the quest NPCs makes the lowbies whine to the high-levels. It's all a matter of causing enough whining to take place to basically force the high-levels to come fight belligerent smacktards like us :)

[Malakar]

Why pick a fight when you can just go to Hillsbrad? So far it looks as though it's a permanent warzone. At 3:30 am last night on my server, there were so many people there the zone was lagging. :lol:

[Artega]

Why pick a fight when you can just go to Hillsbrad? So far it looks as though it's a permanent warzone. At 3:30 am last night on my server, there were so many people there the zone was lagging. :lol:
[right][snapback]74715[/snapback][/right]

Mostly because TM-SS and HF-RP get really old, really fast.

Nethergarde Keep and Stonard are fun, and it's always amusing to play pirate (complete with shiny red pirate hats) on the Menethil-Theramore boat.

[Malakar]

HF-RP would be?

[Boutros]

HF-RP would be?
[right][snapback]74720[/snapback][/right]

Hammerfall - Refuge Pointe

[Occhidiangela]

Arbitrarily removing PvP from the PvE servers would not only completely change the way the game functions as a whole (and make Honor on PvE servers utterly pointless), but it would also rob PvE people of the chance to go level a town to break up the monotony of chain instancing.

NPCs stay dead for five minutes at most, so it's not a "massive disruption", as you said.  Go kill a few extra mobs and come back.  I doubt you're so pressed for playing time that the absence of a quest NPC for five minutes will wreck your day/night.

And if the Horde/Alliance are camping your town, either go quest somewhere else or request assistance from higher-level players.  This might be harder to do on a PvE server than on a PvP server (where towns are safer, ironically), but I'm sure there will be some bored level 60's wandering around that would be happy to deal with the bored level 60's busily looting, raping, and pillaging the town in question.
[right][snapback]74698[/snapback][/right]

Artega

Did you bother to read and consider what Alram is saying? Your reply comes off as a knee jerk response to someone who does not care for how PvP influences PvE, and as I read your response, I think you are either completely inconsiderate or are missing his point.

Imagine a conversation like this.

"Artega, I don't care for beer." (Yes, this is hypothetical.)

"Deal with it, Occhi, you'll get used to the bubbles and the flavor after a while."

That is how your reply came across.

From his post, I infer that he does not want to be forced into "go quest somewhere else" or to "request assistance from higher-level players." He does not want his participation to depend upon the kindness of clvl 60 strangers. Nor does he feel that waiting for five minutes, when he is working his way back to an NPC having faithfully completed a quest element, is a worthwhile use of his gaming time.

If he did, I doubt he'd be objecting to the imposition posed on PvE by PvP.

Occhi

[Alram]

NPCs stay dead for five minutes at most, so it's not a "massive disruption", as you said.  Go kill a few extra mobs and come back.  I doubt you're so pressed for playing time that the absence of a quest NPC for five minutes will wreck your day/night.

Here is one example which counters your argument.
Since there is only one artisan tailor trainer it requires a special trip to Undercity in order to train new tailoring patterns.
One night some @#@% alliance warrior decided to make it his mission in life to kill the artisan tailor and kill him again every time he respawned. It was a pain in the neck. Perhaps by your definition this is not massive disruption, but I didn't like it at all. There were no high level players present to defend the Undercity.
If you think this example is a rare situation, consider the low level character who does not have the option of just taking up some other quest, but has to do his questing in the low level town being ganked by inconsiderate members of the other faction. There are not always high level players around to help.
Typically when the inconiderate alliance raiders attack an area they do not kill NPCs once and then leave; they hang around and kill the NPCs again and again.

[Icebird]

I imagine on most servers the Horde has it worse in this regard because of the higher Alliance populations. (More people around to defend NPCs and so on).

Apart from the lag on patch day (which I hope will subside a bit as people back off from non-stop warmaking and going back to questing) PvP hasn't affected me to much. since its completely voluntary on PvE servers, you're never forced into a fight you don't want.

The little PvP that I have participated in has added some variety to the game. But I can see having your questing interrupted by the one-hundred-and-first raid on crossroads could get old.

Battlegrounds should make life easier by moving a lot of the PvP onto instanced servers.

Chris

[Artega]

Maybe you're reading something in his post that I'm not.

From what I read, Alram is saying that he wishes that there was no PvP on PvE servers, because the ability for bored level 60's to kill important quest NPCs or tradeskill NPCs disrupts his Gaming Goodness™.

He does not want his participation to depend upon the kindness of clvl 60 strangers. Nor does he feel that waiting for five minutes, when he is working his way back to an NPC having faithfully completed a quest element, is a worthwhile use of his gaming time.

Then maybe he should find a new game to play.

While I see merit to his argument, it would be fairly stupid to arbitrarily remove the PvP aspect from the PvE servers. I thought that Blizzard made it fairly clear that the focus of WoW on all three server types would be PvP - the only real differences are whether or not that PvP is consentual, and whether or not you need to stay in-character.

If you think this example is a rare situation, consider the low level character who does not have the option of just taking up some other quest, but has to do his questing in the low level town being ganked by inconsiderate members of the other faction. There are not always high level players around to help.

I was there, too, Alram. The only difference is that this is on a PvP server, where they not only killed the guards and the NPCs - they also killed ME.

The sooner you accept the fact that things like this WILL happen, the sooner you'll be able to play relatively normally. If you don't like that idea, you might need to find a new game :(

EDIT: Quote-fixing.

[Malakar]

I disagree that you need to be able to kill NPCs for the honor system to work on a PvE server. So you can't force people into PvP by killing their quest NPCs? Big deal, that's the point of a PvE server. The honor system works on ratio of kills on the server, thus an overall decrease in PvP won't matter.

[Alram]

Artega, you are doing PvP because you want to.

[Sir_Die_alot]

So your argument is not "Artega, I don't care for beer." ... "Deal with it, Occhi, you'll get used to the bubbles and the flavor after a while." Instead it is "Artega, I don't care for salt they added to my beer." ... "Too bad I like salt in my beer. If you don't like it, you have find something else to drink now." ?

And this is better how? This is a bad argument and I think you know it.

[LochnarITB]

but it would also rob PvE people of the chance to go level a town to break up the monotony of chain instancing.
[right][snapback]74698[/snapback][/right]

So, because Blizzard has created an end game that boils down to running the same thing over and over again, capped players should be allowed to disrupt the play of other gamers? This sounds like "If I'm miserable, everyone else should be miserable too, darnit!" I don't believe that this was the intention of the game design, at least in the context of PvP on a PvE server..

[Kevin]

The little PvP that I have participated in has added some variety to the game. But I can see having your questing interrupted by the  one-hundred-and-first raid on crossroads could get old.
[right][snapback]74724[/snapback][/right]

There are several quest NPC's in the crossroads that it is very easy to kill without attracting guard attention as well. An L60 rogue can pretty much keep one or all of them dead continuously without much danger at all. If you get enough defenders to stand around the NPC spawn points you can stop it, but it is pretty easy to grief in X-roads. I have yet to play for more than 2 hours at a time on Terenas without the X-roads being attacked, and it's only worse now. Of course Terenas is a 70/30 Alliance favored server as well. It really does get old. There have been a few times that my little L13's or 18's have helped kill a 60. Most of them have involved positioning by guards and clever use of Really Sticky Glue to lock the buggers in place so the NPC's can beat on them when no other PC's are in the area. But you only get 10 of the glue from a quest and I'm running out on most of my chars. :)