If You Were a Casual Gamer...

[Tal]

Two things.  I never claimed that pallies had better means of escape in any of my posts and I also never claimed that the shaman doesn't have any reliable escape methods.  I said they aren't as reliable as rogue and mage escape methods (ignoring vanish rank 2 bug that blizzard won't recognize.  Rank 1 really works well though). 
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I was just elaborating on Artega's assertions and responding to the concerns you raised. :)

[Tal]

I will say though that many paladins would gladly give up their shields and the level 40 mount for a reliable means of dps. I'm not talking anything major either. Anything that doesn't rely upon a proc to do damage. Having holy strike back would work. ;)

Anything to break up the monotany.

[savaughn]

This has been taken care of much better in the patch.  Now the rogue trainers have a chat option where you can ask where your character needs to go in order to skill up their lockpicking and there are many more locked boxes in the world so you don't have to whore yourself out in a major town to open boxes or pickpocket higher level critters until your mind has been numbed to oblivion.  It used to be relatively difficult to raise up your lockpicking past 100, but now it's much easier and newbie friendly. :)

I still agree that rogue is a good starting choice though for casual gamers.
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So, when my 30 rogue went to the trainer to find out where to level up lockpicking, he was told to go to Wetlands. He went out to the Wetlands and discovered lockboxes there he could not open. It turned out it was FAR easer to go to Sentinel Hill and open the chest behind Klaven - something that will max your lock picking up to somewhere around 40.

I would say it's still not particularly newbie friendly.

[Jarulf]

Of course, if you ask me, a MMOG is not a game meant for "casual" gamers, anyway.  And even if (s)he is a "casual" gamer now, I'd be willing to wager that (s)he won't be a "casual" gamer for long after starting WoW :)
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Perhaps he allready played some in the beta and stayed "casual"? :P

[Jarulf]

For the Horde, my favorite was quickly picked: I *love* the Undead race and their playing regions[right][snapback]75416[/snapback][/right]

Out of curiosity, when people play different races, do they generally skip the other starting areas, starting are not only being the newbie part but general area (like Dun Morogh (?) if you are not a Dwarf/Gnome)? I personally try to do all and everything (on the other hand I tend to stick with perhaps just one char (or possibly a few at low level and then stick with on). Sure, that might be "booring" sweping through a newbie area at level 20 or whenever you have time/opportunity for it, but I hate not completing everything and every quest :)

[Chesspiece_face]

Out of curiosity, when people play different races, do they generally skip the other starting areas, starting are not only being the newbie part but general area (like Dun Morogh (?) if you are not a Dwarf/Gnome)? I personally try to do all and everything (on the other hand I tend to stick with perhaps just one char (or possibly a few at low level and then stick with on). Sure, that might be "booring" sweping through a newbie area at level 20 or whenever you have time/opportunity for it, but I hate not completing everything and every quest :)
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In general by the time you move through your own starting area and get to the point where you are moving around the map more most of the quests in the other starting areas don't give xp rewards or any real item reward (although there are some which offer recipes etc.) so i think most people skip over other starter areas. The only reason to do it would be if you wanted to get a larger feel for the lore of the area, but then you could easily just go to a higher area and get the lore of that area and also get xp and items. It's also a little discouraging to have your quest log filled up with Gray'd out quests and run into a couple new quests that would actually give a reward. There's also nothing wrong with going back when you are bored and knocking out a few lowbie quests when you got nothing else you want to do at the moment.

And something that other people haven't mentioned about Paladins but i think bears mentioning is the cost of their skills. Paladins have, in general, many more skills purchasable at each level than other "casual" type clases. The prices of each skill however are much cheaper from what i've seen. My 24 paladin pays 45s per skill while my friend's 24 hunter has to pay 60+s per skill. This is even further enhanced by the fact (as a previous poster mentioned) that many of the paladins skills aren't really necissary for the classes overall ability to level or kill effectively. The end result is that paladins can get away with a lot less cash flow than other characters and can invest much more of the money they do get into keeping their armor/weapons up to speed.

[nobbie]

Out of curiosity, when people play different races, do they generally skip the other starting areas, starting are not only being the newbie part but general area (like Dun Morogh (?) if you are not a Dwarf/Gnome)? I personally try to do all and everything (on the other hand I tend to stick with perhaps just one char (or possibly a few at low level and then stick with on). Sure, that might be "booring" sweping through a newbie area at level 20 or whenever you have time/opportunity for it, but I hate not completing everything and every quest :)
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I personally play - for variety reasons - every race as it is "supposed to be played", meaning I do all quests in their respective (starting) areas until their ways naturally cross after level 25-30. The Undead starting and follow-up areas (i.e. Alterac Mountains, Arathi Highlands), and their towns/cities/outposts (Brill, Undercity, The Sepulcher etc) are by far my favorite with respect to playing atmosphere. I'm beginning to get the impression that either the most talented Blizzard artist team worked on the Undead race or that the most time went into it :)

[Drasca]

There's currently NO way that I will create a character on a dedicated PvP server.
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Mind you, PvE servers have their quest NPC's killed too. Stick to RP if you want 'pure' pve. Not sure what their rules are though... anyone answer?

[Treesh]

So, when my 30 rogue went to the trainer to find out where to level up lockpicking, he was told to go to Wetlands.  He went out to the Wetlands and discovered lockboxes there he could not open.  It turned out it was FAR easer to go to Sentinel Hill and open the chest behind Klaven - something that will max your lock picking up to somewhere around 40.

I would say it's still not particularly newbie friendly.
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It's much better than it used to be though where unless you read the boards, you didn't know about Klaven's box and you didn't know you could pickpocket boxes from critters (unless you were a pickpocketing freak). There was quite a bit of "pickpocketing is useless. Why is it even in the game?" comments and they were generally made by people who couldn't pick locks well either. Unless you read the boards or had a knowledgeable friend to rely on, a casual player couldn't get their lockpicking skill up. Now you can because of the lockboxes in the world. And I have never been told by a trainer to go to an area where I can't actually pick any of the boxes. In some of the areas, there are two (possibly more) different levels of boxes. I was picking in Angor Fortress last night and the dented footlockers were orange skill ups after a certain point, but the battered footlockers had gone yellow. All in the same area. IIIRC, when I was picking the boxes in Desolace, there was a similar situation, but I don't remember for sure. I do not know about the Wetlands though since my rogues were either too little or too big to pick in that area so I don't know if there is the same thing there.

[Treesh]

Mind you, PvE servers have their quest NPC's killed too. Stick to RP if you want 'pure' pve. Not sure what their rules are though... anyone answer?
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The biggest change to the normal server rules that people just can't seem to understand is listed under Blizzard's RP Server Policy

Out of Character (OOC) Discussion and Use of General Chat

Detailed below is the language policy enforced on the Role-Play servers. Use of the /ignore command is also highly encouraged.

    * The General Chat Channel should only be used for finding Storylines (SLs), finding Party Groups, and various other discussions pertaining to the Base Storyline (BSL), game-related topics, and continuity.
    * The General Chat Channel should NOT be used for any "Off-topic," Non-Storyline, or non game-related discussions.
    * Absolutely no out of character (OOC) or non-fantasy related dialogue should take place in the /Say, /Yell, or Party chat channels.
    * Guild Chat will not be policed for any fantasy related violations.
    * All normal harassment rules (which can be found at http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm01719p ) still apply.

Examples of appropriate conversation in the General Chat Channel:

    * "Would anyone like to join a Rogue Specific SL?"
    * "What happened to the Well of Eternity?"

Examples of inappropriate conversation in the General Chat Channel:

    * "Did you see that new movie?"
    * "My sister just bought a new car."

If a player is found violating any of these rules, he/she may:

    * Be given a warning.

That's really the biggest difference between RP and normal servers.

[savaughn]

And I have never been told by a trainer to go to an area where I can't actually pick any of the boxes.  In some of the areas, there are two (possibly more) different levels of boxes.
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When I was told to go to the Wetlands, there were literally no boxes that I could pick. I had a level 60 mage clear every single murloc village north of Menethil Bay twice (nothing clears out low hordes like a mage!) - my rogue couldn't pick a single box. "Better" it may well be, but if I needed the Internet to figure out where to go next, I'm comfortable saying a casual gamer may well need to, also.

[DarkCrown]

It's impossible to die in PvE combat with any class unless you do something stupid. This is not a difficult game.
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This statement bothers the hell out of me. So let me hop up on my high horse and ride a bit here.

First of all, you're implying that anyone who has died in PvE combat has done something stupid. This is flat wrong. A poor pull by anyone in your party can get you killed. Not knowing respawn timers can get you killed. Lag can get you killed. Many, many things can happen in this game that can get you killed. Not all of them require you to do something 'stupid'.

I've died many times in Molten Core. I never felt I did anything 'stupid' when I did. It's a hard place, and it's hard to organize 40 players and get them working together. If you think leading a group into MC and doing well is easy, more power to you --- you are a god in this game.

One more thing: 'stupid' is a loaded word. It insults people. If you have a point you're trying to make you rarely get people to listen if you start by insulting them.

-DC

[Quark]

When I was told to go to the Wetlands, there were literally no boxes that I could pick.
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Sorry, I got all my lockpicking the hard way (quest chest, SM doors, pickpocketting, Searing Gorge, BRD prison doors), so I don't know the new stuff to well. It sounds to me like the advice given is based off your level - or, in another comparison, your max pickpocketting skill, which is just level*5. If you fall behind in your pickpocketting, you will see stuff you can't pick. I raised mine in spurts, basically after any time I saw something I couldn't pick. But if you do that, you fall behind at parts and can't lockpick stuff from your level. It's important to keep ahead of the curve then, and this should be described better.

Given the advantages of lockpicking, though, I don't know if making it easier is a good idea :blink:. It was nice that Blizzard added in a way to consistently gain lockpicking points, rather than the sporadic nature of doors (that have some sort of timer) and pickpocketting. But it makes some things so trivial, that it certainly should not be trivial itself.

[Treesh]

It sounds to me like the advice given is based off your level - or, in another comparison, your max pickpocketting skill, which is just level*5. 
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It's not though. Etheramwen had gotten far behind in her lockpicking when they introduced boxes and before they put in the handy chat options on NPC. I made a printout of the patch notes saying where they added boxes. I calculated how my current lockpicking skill compared to the level*5 formula, and ran off of that until they introduced the chat option. Her lockpicking skill was still more than 15 points behind her max (meaning at least 3 levels lower than it should have been). I went to a trainer and they sent me to Zoram Strand even though I was welll over level 30 at the time. My orc rogue (who is able to keep her picking up with her level) on Terenas is a big enough level to quest at the Zoram Strand, but not pick the boxes and her trainer sent her (appropriately) to The Stonetalon Mountains instead. Eth now has her lockpicking at a good level for her skill and the trainer told her Angor Fortress and Sar'theris Strand where she has now since maxed her skill comparative to her level. It just doesn't feel like it's based solely off of level or even what your max picking skill is.

[KiloVictor]

I dunno I played an undead up through 40, granted not under honor system but I can't say that Alliance is "easy mode" in comparison. Just my opinion though.
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Of all the Horde races, Forsaken is the one to go with if it fits your character class. Two reasons: One, the starting areas are not *nearly* as badly spready out as the Barrens and Mulgore, so you don't spend endless hours running wildly between questgivers and gaining no experience... boring! Two, Will of the Forsaken is one of the strongest racial skills available, and higher-end encounters with fear and mez effects are much easier with it.

That said, I'd suggest a pet class for newbies. Why? Because it's like having a group, without having to get a group. If you're playing casually, a lot of the folks you group with will either outlevel you or lag behind you as you level, so you're going to be left with pickup groups a lot of the time. Why not bring the first member of the group with you in the form of a pet? :)

I'd agree with Catlyn's post on the Hunter, and it's a very good choice. But I think the Warlock also deserves consideration -- it's similar in that you can bumble your way through most stuff with just a voidwalker and CoA/Corruption, but it also opens up the option of playing a fairly involved class (pet switches, different curses, nukes vs. DoTs, etc.) if that's what one wants.

So if casual means "keep it simple", Hunter or Warlock would be fine. But if casual means "I like a deep and interesting class, but I can only play a few hours per week or month", I'd say the Warlock's a better option.

Kv

[Gregorius]

A casual player doesn't need to be told "A Gnome Rogue and and Undead Priest have been scientifically proven to give the best variety and most fun for people who are unable to spend all their time playing the game." They just need the information required to make a choice they will be happy with.

I do have a bone to pick with Professions though. I don't like them. Since engineering is the only profession that you can't get nearly all the benefit from if you have sufficient funds, it's basically the only one I've ever leveled substantially. Other than that it just takes too long for me to really get into it.

[Guest]

It really depends if you like to solo or like to group. Not all casual players are soloers.

A rogue is the best class for a player like me who doest play for huge periods of time and gets bored waiting for groups to form up.

But a casual player who loved grouping could do well with a priest, because they can get pick up groups so quickly.


EDIT: I responded before reading all your comments Bolty. - Dang Bolty you are completely right!!

[Bolty]

Dang Bolty you are completely right!![right][snapback]75577[/snapback][/right]

That's it. Hell just froze over.

-Bolty

[Gregorius]

So, after two revisions necessitated by two browser crashes, using different versions of different browsers on different computers...I'm posting my enhanced rundown of my viewpoint on this.

For starters, I would NEVER reccommend to a casual player that they go to a PvP server, especially not now when you have to have body guards flanking you if you don't want to get ganked. I broke down and started a 'lock on the new Gurubashi server hoping that I wouldn't fall too far behind (I will, but what else can I do? Play PvE I guess...). Tonight at 7:00 when the server crashed (it was Ironforge in Northshire Abbey!) the highest level Alliance side was 11 (Dwarf Hunter).

Druid: Yes, druid's shifting, multiple action bars, etc. could confuse a casual player but I must admit I was totally lost when I looked at the skills my rogue alt had. Playing a druid gives versatility, survivability, and low down-time which is what I was looking for exactly and seems like it would be preferable for a casual.

I think this game has a much steeper learning curve than any of Blizzard's other games (except maybe Diablo I, where the put the Butcher on level 2! :blink: ) and that a casual player will have to work over some humps before reaching level 10. Which brings me to

Warlocks: I love them to death (though I haven't reached the dreaded high levels with them yet). To be honest 1-10 is incredibly easy going in my opinion but after you reach 10 the casual player's world would turn upside down. Shards? Having to choose between radically different pets? Warlocks have what I view as the biggest, coolest arsenal in the game but it definitely comes at a price for the casual.

Warrior: If there was a class that was worse for a casual than a 'lock it would have to be Warrior. It's not but I view the Warrior as being very frustrating in solo with few escape mechanisms, no add control, and the annoyance of Rage. In groups they have to take on a completely different role as well. "You're telling me...that I have to stand here while a gigantic stone statue 35 times taller than me smacks me with a 6000 pound hammer?" I'm very proud of my brother for learning how to play a warrior (and play it well, no less) without reading massive online guides, etc. But I'm even more proud of him for dealing with it on a PvP server where Shadow Priests nine levels lower can deck him in about 20 seconds.

Hunter: So lets see here...as was mentioned before, Hunters have one trick, adjusting to pets. This took my younger brother part of 15 minutes. Sure, it gets a little more complicated but I view hunters as being easy and relaxing.

Shaman: I know nothing. Seem maybe a little complicated but I'm not one to talk.

Mages: Seem okay so long as you don't mind long drinking breaks. Good in solo, and in a group (so long as you don't aggro the wrong guy at the wrong time!). Solid choice, probably.

Priests: No problems ever getting a group, coupled with tolerable killing power, makes for another class whose real weakness is downtime.

Paladin: Slow killers, even at low levels, who rarely die or eat/drink. I don't think this is a casual choice because I think casual players want something where they feel involved, which leads into the

Rogue: Everybody is suggesting this, it seems, but Bolty, I (don't) completely (dis)agree with you! Rogues have escapes, seventy-one attack skills (no I haven't counted, sorry), two side skills that take loads of time (lockpicking) or money (poisons) to level up but are also your main draw in groups. I am not a rogue person at all. My generically sarcastic rogue bashing that I did so much of after my younger brother started leveling his rogue up has been replaced with me quite simply not enjoying the rogue class on any level (grouping with bad rogues, fighting against rogues, playing as a rogue). For me playing a rogue is anything but easy, and I can't imagine that out of 1.5 million subscribers I'm the only one. But I WAS a weird kid...

About professions, I don't feel much like elaborating right now. I honestly think they're boring. Except enchanting, and engineering.

[Brista]

It's a very interesting question but I find the idea of a typical "casual gamer" somewhat flawed

If we were asking what's the best class for a dedicated gamer I suspect Artega's answer would be very different from MongoJerry's. Upthread Jarulf implies he's a casual gamer, Nobbie implies he may become one. Casual they may be, but they certainly don't need the game dumbed down

Most people likely to play WoW have played some other role-playing game in the past. What you liked in D&D and Baldur's Gate is probably going to be what you'll like in WoW

So I'd suggest the best response isn't a one-word answer but a discussion with the person about what they have liked in previous games and what they expect from this one.

If casual means they've played online games before then I really think they should go for more of what they liked before

If casual means they're rather new to playing online then there are a lot of things to learn that are perhaps rather distant for most of us veterans

One of the biggest shocks is that so many people are jerks. Often amazingly so, when it clearly harms them as much as it harms you. This is really unexpected and often really upsetting to new players.

On that note I'd advise against being a priest. Priests get sworn at a lot. OMFG HEAL NOW NOOB isn't very nice for anyone. For someone who is new to playing games in this it may be enough to make them go back to bridge or gardening or whatever they did before if they're unlucky with their groups

The classes can broadly be broken into two types of complexity. Some classes basically do one thing. Warriors, Rogues and Priests are fairly linear. Druids, Shamans and Warlocks seem to me to have a much greater variety in each battle. That will be off-putting to some new players but very appealing to others. Personally I quite enjoy battles being different and requiring me to pull tools out of the box that I don't usually use. Some people find the meditative side of killing in some highly effective and honed routine to be a great way to play

As for pvp the game is now very unfriendly to casual pvpers, which is a state of affairs I can't see lasting for long. But if you're under 40 you can still get quite a lot of kills if you hunt in an area you are over-levelled for. My level 30 Hunter is lethal in Ashenvale where I quite often run into level 20-25 Alliance. In Stranglethorn Vale, even my level 40 druid is usually a cheap kill. Mixed level fights such as the TM-SS one that is an institution on every server are quite good fun. If you are a healer and heal the level 60s you have a big impact, if you have range you can plink away for a small impact and if you're melee and under-levelled you're just cannon fodder, even a rogue. But even a casual player can have lots of fun on a pvp server, especially if it's one of the more recently opened ones. You just need the temperament where it doesn't bother you if you die