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Warlock's talents building
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05-27-2005, 03:59 PM
Hey guyz , what's up ?
Warlock rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway could you give me a full warlock's talents building for strong character in PvP ? http://www.penny-arcade.com/warlock.jpg 
Each warlock tree has their own strong points, so there's no such thing as a single best build. However, it looks like the next patch is going to make Demonology even more powerful for PvP, and Soul Link is just insanely powerful in its current form. A 31 Demonology, 20 Affliction like the one below is probably one of the more reasonable ones for surviving and farming CP at a reasonable rate.
Affliction Mastery Suppression Rank 5 Improved Corruption Rank 5 Improved Drain Soul Rank 2 Improved Curse of Agony Rank 3 Amplify Curse Rank 1 Grim Reach Rank 2 Nightfall Rank 2 Affliction Total: 20 Demonology Mastery Improved Healthstone Rank 2 Demonic Embrace Rank 5 Improved Voidwalker Rank 1 Fel Intellect Rank 5 Improved Succubus Rank 3 Fel Domination Rank 1 Fel Stamina Rank 5 Master Summoner Rank 2 Demonic Sacrifice Rank 1 Unholy Power Rank 5 Soul Link Rank 1 Demonology Total: 31 It's not a perfect build - you'll need a bunch of +shadow damage and +stamina gear for it to be reasonable, and more points in the new version of Imp. Voidwalker would probably help for bandaging between voidwalkers when soul linking - but you can do reasonable damage and come out of it alive. 
05-27-2005, 07:40 PM
This is my Affliction specced Warlock at level 60:
Quote:Level/Level Range - Category/Mastery - # Points of # max. Points - Talent (Prerequisites) Although I don't do PvP, it's a great PvP build, too. For PvP, I'd recommend that you pick up Mining/Engineering for all the nifty extra PvP goodies.
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
05-27-2005, 08:58 PM
nobbie,May 27 2005, 02:40 PM Wrote:Although I don't do PvP, it's a great PvP build, too. For PvP, I'd recommend that you pick up Mining/Engineering for all the nifty extra PvP goodies. Nobbie, is that really your 60 WL? Talent points 6-7 should go to life tap. Even though you have dark pact, 200 mana is really not enough mana per second 3 casts of imp life tap (500 mana) as opposed to 4 life tap (400) or 7 (200) for one hellfire (1300 mana cost). That really makes a difference. As for iCoEx, that's really an all or nothing talent. Heck, you might as trade off dark pact for Ruin and do that cookie cutter SM/Ruin build with this plan. As for the Demon/Afflic now... its not great for battlegrounds. Great for small unit engagements 1-5, but large zergs tend to be artillery fests. Demonology has so many weaknesses... Improved health funnel is great pve (and on occasion pvp when soul linked), and consider siphoning points off unholy power for it. A number of talents are small one-time use trade offs. improved voidwalker for its improved sacrfice, or improved healthstone, or improved spellstone (ok no one should really consider improved spellstone).
05-27-2005, 09:51 PM
Drasca,May 27 2005, 08:58 PM Wrote:Heck, you might as trade off dark pact for Ruin and do that cookie cutter SM/Ruin build with this plan.What is the complete skill plan for a level 60 SM/Ruin "cookie cutter" build?
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
Quote:As for the Demon/Afflic now... I've found keeping my warlock stationary long enough to be an artillery unit tends to be a great way for rogues to go for the stereotypical target. A caster that offers nearly as much resistance as a tank is (if not more), in my view, the single most powerful ability a warlock can get. Getting a good number of CP quickly for me is simply to throw as many DoTs out as possible and make sure I survive long enough to make sure the targets die before I do. In my few attempts at battlegrounds with my warlock, I've found the ability to survive while running toward friendly lines with the flag or to distract a group too useful. Nevermind how much more valuable a (admittedly rare) Nightfall proc can be. Of course, I play a survival hunter, so I may just be a masochist.
05-28-2005, 03:12 AM
nobbie,May 27 2005, 04:51 PM Wrote:What is the complete skill plan for a level 60 SM/Ruin "cookie cutter" build? The idea behind a SM/Ruin build is to have maximum burst and crit damage available to you, while also having intensity for hellfire to be interrupted less. Let me give you a modified burst damage skill set, as shadow mastery isn't really that great. You have 51 points total to play with. With warlock talents, you have certain plateaus of good skills where you get maximum utility. 7 points for Improved Life tap, 11 to shadowburn. 17 to master summoner, 21 to ruin, 25 to Curse of exhaustion, 31 soul link. Eventually, you learn to mix and match these while avoiding broken or extremely marginal talents (like improved curse of weakness or iDrain soul) 5/5 iCorruption 2/2 iLife tap 7 Afflic so far. These 7 are important by themselves. Suppression is an extremely good talent, but mostly toward end game and against mobs higher level than yourself, or with particularly high resists. 5/5 iShadowbolt 5/5 Bane 1/1 Shadowburn 11 Destruction to shadowburn At this point, you'll have maximum destructive power at your fingertips. Also, if you really like your imp, put exactly one point into improved firebolt, as the second point does not actually help your imp's casting speed. If you still love him, we can consider poking into demonology a bit 3/3 iImp 2/5 Demonic embrace (will benefit you more than iHS, as it improves with buffs) 2/2 iHealth funnel, 3/3 iVW or 5/5 DE. This can be either a 3, 5, 7/8, or 10 point investment into Demonology depending on your tastes. Improved Voidwalker will allow you to do more damage to enemies your voidwalker engages before they turn to you. Improved health funnel will allow your voidwalker (and other pets) to survive longer while they engage those targets. Improved imp is great overall, and Demonic Embrace allows you to last longer. Improved healthstone does not pass improved versions to allies. Now you have the option to become a drain tank*, or gain a weak snare that helps control your fears and helps you kite. Since we're going the destructive route, let's assume we'll take Curse of Exhaustion for a snare *Drain tanking means you may life-drain enemies while they melee you, usually healing yourself almost as much as they damage you. Your channeled life drain is not interupted due to fel concentration, and you do damage through life drain and dots while healing yourself through life drain. Recap: We have 7 in affliction so far, 11 in destruction. 3/5 Into suppression to get to 10 affliction pt plateau. If you were 60, I'd consider respeccing to get 2 more points into suppression, but let's assume you're leveling. 1/1 Amplify Curse 4/5 Fel Conc The fel conc will help with life drains and getting soul shards. 2/2 into Nightfall 17 points into Affliction so far. 11 into destruction. 28 total out of 51, and you have all the damage options you really ever need. 23 left to play with. Let's explore our options. +9 into affliction for Curse of Exhaustion 2/2 Grim reach +1/5 Fel Concentration for 5/5, allowing you to drain tank (or put points to maximize suppression) This gives you the 20 into affliction to gain 1/1 Siphon life (which will be instant next patch) and 1/1 Curse of Exhaustion 4/4 iCoEx. This addition brings us to 26 points into affliction total, using 9/23 points you have available. Its a strong choice, since we have so much burst damage, I'd suggest you take it. A good second choice is demonology, up to 10/23 points for improved voidwalker and imp, for reasons discussed above. That would bring us to 19/23 used points, and leave 4 to play with. I'd suggest fel domination and 3 points into improved succubus, if you do have 4 to play with, and already invested in demonology. On second thought, get 2/3 improved succubus, and 1/2 improved firebolt from destruction as an added mixer for best burst imp damage while retaining good charm time. I think that would be your best mix of utility and damage. You don't get instant pet summonings every 15 minutes (Fel Domination + master summoner costs 17 pts into Demonology), but you do get your pet back faster and at reduced cost every 15 minutes. If you do want instant pets (which is vital at times), spend 17 points into demonology into any of the aforementioned talents, and grab as much siphon life and improved curse of weakness as you can. That would leave you with 6 points from 17 afflic. 3 to get to 20 plateau, 1 for siphon life, and 3 for improved curse of exhaustion. Master summoner is also a very strong option. Lastly, is additional damage from crits, and improved AoE from intensity. You gain the least utility from improving destruction beyond shadowburn for ruin, as very few warlock spells crit. After shadowburn, +10 or +11 out of 23 unused talent points will buy you the following skills: 1/2 iFirebolt (make your imp a chain gun) 5/5 Devastation (+crit) 2/2 Intensity (AoE much easier) 1/2 Destructive Reach 1/1 Ruin (better crits) So, in the end, its your choice, but I've highlighted some of the better talent options available. I have my favorites, and now you've delved a bit into advanced warlock talent builds.
05-29-2005, 10:54 AM
I'll take a serious look at your plan and maybe try it out at level 60 (via a respec) to see what gives me better results :)
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
russ,May 27 2005, 09:58 PM Wrote:I've found keeping my warlock stationary long enough to be an artillery unit tends to be a great way for rogues to go for the stereotypical target. Who ever said stationary artillery? You can weave in and out of range before people notice. Still, there are places its advantageous to be artillery, and many casters will find those perfect angles to rain blizzard or fire from them. These places are hard to penetrate because with a few casters in the area all able to AoE from a high vantagepoint with some LoS obstacle cover the battle is uphill to say the least. Rogues, warriors, everyone goes out of their way to attack warlocks because we have no real escape mechanism. Even Mongojerry made the ludicrous statement of 'why would people attack warlocks' when there's a healer around etc etc etc. I didn't understand then, but I fully understand now. Attacks on priests and druids can be an exercise of futility because they can escape and mitigate any damage done through efficient heals (while the rest of the party pounds). Meanwhile, warlocks have no escape mechanism, and can cause a lot of chaos debuffing, ranged fearing, anti-stealth dotting, and more. However, its the fact warlocks can't escape when attacked which is the main point. Warlocks are a captive target, and thus easiest to eliminate. Quote:I'll take a serious look at your plan and maybe try it out at level 60 (via a respec) to see what gives me better results Nobbie, do you have a 60 lock? Seems like a silly question, but if you do, you've been fooled a bit by somewhat mediocre talents. Shadow Mastery, while appearing decent, only buffs pre-equipment base talent. You can achieve better damage from equipment boons. It really doesn't add a whole lot of damage. It does stack with improved drain life, but if you're going for mana efficiency you don't need both dark pact and improved DL and SM. Two ranks in improved life tap takes care of that. If you're going for damage, its damage increase is extremely marginal. All and all... 10 points placed used for very marginal gains. Dark Pact's weakness I've discussed earlier. I loved the talent when I had it, but it really did take too long to use effectively. If I ever get tired of soul link, I'd play a version of what I proposed here. I've played parts of it before, and wasted other points, but not all together like this.
06-04-2005, 02:54 PM
This, by the way, is the thread where I have my "Dark Pact" Affliction Warlock template from:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/wow/forums/i...?showtopic=3704 It explains everything in detail :)
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
nobbie,Jun 4 2005, 09:54 AM Wrote:This, by the way, is the thread where I have my "Dark Pact" Affliction Warlock template from: I see where you're lead astray. They do a nice job some basics that every lock should know, but are really wanna-be's when it comes to experience and details. Personally, I can regularly do 700 damage shadowbolts due to +150 http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...mp=1#post220101 Look there for decent talent commentary. While we're on 'locks, everyone should read this: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...mp=1#post308186 Couldn't find the thread I really wanted to show you though, unfortunately.
This is my new, updated build that now takes into consideration "Ruin":
Quote:"Ruin" Affliction Warlock
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
06-06-2005, 04:37 AM
nobbie,Jun 5 2005, 07:11 AM Wrote:This is my new, updated build that now takes into consideration "Ruin": To be honest, if you're not going to put points into improving Curse of Exhaustion, don't bother putting the points into Amp Curse and Curse of Exhaution, that's 2 points of waste. CoEx is only good if you get 3 or 4 points into improving it.
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative. Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain. Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
06-06-2005, 07:52 AM
Lissa,Jun 6 2005, 04:37 AM Wrote:To be honest, if you're not going to put points into improving Curse of Exhaustion, don't bother putting the points into Amp Curse and Curse of Exhaution, that's 2 points of waste. CoEx is only good if you get 3 or 4 points into improving it.Amplify Curse is a good choice by itself as it also improves your next Curse of Weakness or Agony by 50%.
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
06-06-2005, 11:47 AM
nobbie,Jun 6 2005, 02:52 AM Wrote:Amplify Curse is a good choice by itself as it also improves your next Curse of Weakness or Agony by 50%. It is indeed very good. Best for amp'ed CoA. However... Those points in after shadowburn and before ruin are for 5 man and small unit engagements. On a raid level, intensity is not as useful because other people will have aggro and you will not be interrupted at all. iLoP, well succubus damage is best for solo. I loved it when I had it, but its again best for solo against easy mobs with low hp. The +crit... Hmm. Crit is not terribly reliable, but with the right equipment you can have 20% crit or so. Considering that many affliction spells do not crit, especially life drain, it would be a waste for your build to have additional crit. If you were 60 and regularly hitting MC/UBRS/Onyxia, I'd say put the points into suppression instead, demonology (imp 3/3), or getting curse of exhaustion maxed, or even dark pact. Regardless, one point into improved firebolt would get you a lot of utility whereas your +crit wouldn't get you a whole lot more damage. Its your warlock, but some builds really don't mesh well.
06-06-2005, 01:44 PM
Drasca,Jun 6 2005, 11:47 AM Wrote:The +crit... Hmm. Crit is not terribly reliable, but with the right equipment you can have 20% crit or so. Considering that many affliction spells do not crit, especially life drain, it would be a waste for your build to have additional crit.If you want "Ruin", you'll need to have the 5 points in "Devastation" (crits). That's why I have them ;)
"Man only plays when in the full meaning of the word he is a man, and he is only completely a man when he plays." -- Friedrich von Schiller
06-06-2005, 07:01 PM
nobbie,Jun 6 2005, 12:52 AM Wrote:Amplify Curse is a good choice by itself as it also improves your next Curse of Weakness or Agony by 50%. In solo PvE or 1vX, Amped CoA is of use. When you are in a group, you're better served by using a Curse other than Agony. Weakness, even Amped, is pretty much useless when you're 40+ since the damage reduction is so minor when Players and NPCs are doing non-crit hits in the 300 range (with high end Elite hand to hand trash mobs) and Bosses are doing crit hits with special powers on the order of 1.5k+. Amps only good reason is for CoEx in the end game. In PvP, instant damage is king and DoTs, while they can be helpful, usually won't be enough to win the fight.
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative. Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain. Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
06-06-2005, 07:09 PM
Drasca,Jun 6 2005, 04:47 AM Wrote:It is indeed very good. Best for amp'ed CoA. However... Even with Devestation and Ruin I routinely get crits for severe damage using Curse of Shadow and Shadowbolts. Yesterday I helped in a Jailbreak for a couple people as was routinely getting SB crits routinely in the 1.6k to 2k damage range with CoS up. While I may have around a 10% crit chance without items, it sure seems like they occur more often than 10% of the time. I seem to remember a Warlock on the Blizzard forums sitting down and calculating the percentage chance of having the Improved SB debuff up on a mob compared against crit percentage and just having Devestation was a big jump in and of itself. Further having that debuff on and with getting as much crit gear as you could, at around 25% crit chance they guy found that 2/3s of the time you could have the debuff in effect. That's quite a jump in damage, especially with a true SM/Ruin build (and has been making me lean that way recently).
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative. Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain. Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
06-09-2005, 08:16 AM
Quote:routinely getting SB crits routinely in the 1.6k to 2k damage range with CoS up. My crits are in the 900-1600 range, no Ruin, no shadow mastery . Just +damage equipment and whatever debuffs happen to be on the mob. Regular shadowbolts with my +damage equip (no epics, but a number of greens and blues) are 700-800. Approx +130 magical damage from equip. I could squeeze an additional 100 damage or so on top of that with a sacrificed succubus, but imp benefits party better, and can do dps. SM/Ruin is overrated because it does not provide a whole lot of stable damage in addition to your regular hits. SM because it only affects base damage, not +equip. Crits and Ruin, because they aren't terribly reliable. I've compared crits and equipment with combatstats mods. At 60, you gain 5% base spell crit chance, and +1 per 100 int, plus equipment. I usually have 9-10%, 5 base, 200+ int, and 3 from equip: Crown of Ogre King (head), Brightspark gloves (hands), and Rod of Ogre Magi (2H Stave). I do have other +crit equipment, though I'm missing a few obtainable (with effort) +crit pieces: shoulders I've recently seen, belt of archmage and better neckpiece. Tempest talisman 1% neck, Focus Sword & Spellstone 1% each, eye of beast 2% trinket, Band of Rumination 1% ring. For me, shadowbolts do test out around 13-16% total with these additional crit items. Got any mods that track your crit Lissa? That, or want to watch count and seperate your combat window next battle for shadowbolt regulars vs crits? Could be interesting. Do share how much devastation talent investment, +crit equipment, and int you have too. Every 100 int = 1% crit. Talent and equip are obvious. Its a moot point for nobbie, since he doesn't have access to these end game items, but +crit equipment (or talents) on shadowbolt doesn't provide as much overall damage as advertised for PvE compared to +magical/shadow damage while retaining all the burst aggro. While leveling, he'd get a lot more burst damage out of improved firebolt, some very nice damage out of iLoP (though not much more from improving firebolt, but at lot steadier damage from a higher hp pet). Crit just doesn't affect enough warlock spells to justify itself compared to damage or stats. Talent improved Searing pain in PvP is quite another story, as +magical damage only gives 43% bonus to searing pain, about 20% to initial Immolate's nuke and 57% to immolate's DoT. That's far more oomph for your investment. Oh... let me repost Quote:Creshinnibon's Magic Chart in Warlock's Compiliation 6/2/2005 11:39:32 PM PDT Note how fire gets very little of the bonus... while shadow gains most from it. Drasca,Jun 9 2005, 01:16 AM Wrote:My crits are in the 900-1600 range, no Ruin, no shadow mastery . Just +damage equipment and whatever debuffs happen to be on the mob. Regular shadowbolts with my +damage equip (no epics, but a number of greens and blues) are 700-800. Approx +130 magical damage from equip. I could squeeze an additional 100 damage or so on top of that with a sacrificed succubus, but imp benefits party better, and can do dps. I'm not running as much +damage equipment as you, I have about +50 total at the moment. Think about that for a second, you get crits ranging from 900 - 1600 with almost triple the +damage items I have, yet I routinely see my crits in the 1500 - 2000 range. What do you think would happen if I switched to even more +crit/+damage items (haven't been playing Taha as much lately because been working on Lissanna my Hunter). I've already sat down and figured out what my ultimate gear setup would be and one of them, Cap the Scarlet Savant, just requires me to get my hands on a prestine hide (no easy feat) and I can get this cap (the scarlet thread, stitchings, and arcane crystals are actually fairly easy to get). I've also seen other items I want as well. While you think that with +damage is an equal replacement for Ruin, it is not. If I fully equipped with the right gear setup, I could probably be looking at routine crits in the 2000 - 2500+ range. Say what you will about Ruin being a waste, but realize that for pure firepower, no one, and I mean no one, not even a fire spec'd mage, can pump out the damage a Ruin oriented Warlock can pump out. edit: Oh, and thank you Drasca by proving my point by posting Cresh's numbers on how much an effect +damage has to all the various spells. What you failed to realize is that the 5% improvement in criticals from Devestation translates to around a 10% greater chance of getting a critical when multiple spells are taken into account as they are cast in a row (say you have 15% critical without Devestation, this means that your chance of getting a critical on the first spell is 15%, but the chance of getting a critical between two spells cast in a row with more like 27.75% but someone with the same gear and Devestation has a 20% chance to critical on the first spell and a chance of getting a critical between two spells of 36%). Also, you forget that that extra 50% that Ruin gives you also makes up for the loss of damage you would get on a critical from a quick cast spell like Shadowburn, Syphon Life, and Searing Pain. Remember, in group PvP, burst damage is King not DoTing and hoping that someone is stupid enough to not have the DoTs removed.
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative. Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain. Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain. |
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