The Lurkers on Tich

[Alram]

I have recently done some PvP with my rogue on Terenas and enjoyed it immensely. I am thinking of starting a rogue on the Tich server. Primarily I would be playing during the daytime (Central time zone,USA) when few Lurkers are on Terenas. Would there be Lurkers on Tich at that time? And what is it like being on a PvP server?

[Brista]

I can't comment on Tich specifically but I do enjoy pvp servers

Do go into it with open eyes though. The main difference between the two types is that unexpected warfare breaks out constantly once you emerge from the sub-20 zones. Some players expect "duelling" a fair and honorable contest between two evenly matched players while others cheerfully gank any target

I like ganking people and I like being ganked. It's a genuine thrill to sneak up on a pre-occupied player and take them down fast and an even bigger thrill to beat off an attack despite starting on half health and mana.

Regardless of whether you will adopt the same approach you must accept that other people will gank you a LOT or you will be miserable on a pvp server. On EU servers as the game has aged ganking has become the norm, it was the exception early on and people used to grind side by side

Shadow Priest is highly recommended for soloing with on a pvp realm, you will turn the tables on many would-be gankers with a simple fear, kite and dot technique. Undead get an additional dot

[Boutros]

I have recently done some PvP with my rogue on Terenas and enjoyed it immensely. I am thinking of starting a rogue on the Tich server.  Primarily I would be playing during the daytime (Central time zone,USA) when few Lurkers are on Terenas. Would there be Lurkers on Tich at that time? And what is it like being on a PvP server?
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We are one of the biggest guilds on the server, and have plenty of people from all timezones, so there wouldn't be a lack of people at any time really. As far as what it's like being on a PvP server, it really depends a lot on your mentality. I see people on Tich who get super pissed whenever they get killed by a 60 or get "corpse camped" (which is usually just getting killed 3-4 times in a questing area, not a dedicated corpse camp). If you think that could be you then maybe a PvP server isn't for you. But if you like the added danger and excitement of random PvP while you are questing or grinding then a PvP server is loads of fun. Plus you can be the one doing the lame ganking, which many people are known to enjoy.

[MongoJerry]

We are one of the biggest guilds on the server, and have plenty of people from all timezones, so there wouldn't be a lack of people at any time really.

When Boutros uses the word "we," he means the Basin, since the Lurking Loungers has largely disbanded (although I have an alt who maintains defacto guild leadership on the server). Too many Lurker Lounge carebears at the start of retail meant that not enough Lurkers were ever on Tichondrius to form the critical mass necessary to sustain an on-line PvP guild there. But that's OK, since many Lurkers have found places in other on-line guilds there, including The Basin, Unholy Legion, and my guild, The Core.

[Alram]

When Boutros uses the word "we," he means the Basin, since the Lurking Loungers has largely disbanded (although I have an alt who maintains defacto guild leadership on the server).  Too many Lurker Lounge carebears at the start of retail meant that not enough Lurkers were ever on Tichondrius to form the critical mass necessary to sustain an on-line PvP guild there.  But that's OK, since many Lurkers have found places in other on-line guilds there, including The Basin, Unholy Legion, and my guild, The Core.
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Thanks for the clarification. When I first began WoW, I actually left the Basin guild on SR because it was too large. I have really enjoyed the camaraderie of the Lurkers. Will The Core folks be on during the day?

As for ganking being standard on PvP, I am glad to hear it; I want to sneak up on unsuspecting people with my rogue. I'd like to take a level 6 rogue into the Alliance starting area and kill some humans.

[Mirajj]

  Too many Lurker Lounge carebears at the start of retail meant that not enough Lurkers were ever on Tichondrius to form the critical mass necessary to sustain an on-line PvP guild there.  But that's OK, since many Lurkers have found places in other on-line guilds there, including The Basin, Unholy Legion, and my guild, The Core.
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I'm going to leave off the snide namecalling over a game type preference, and address the issue.

There were not too many "carebears" at retail, we just organized (mostly) onto a single server.

If you look at those Lurkers with PvP realm preference (and really Mongo, I'd expect more from you than namecalling over a preference) they are spread out across many of the PvP servers, instead of organized onto one. That is/was the problem, not that there aren't enough of you.

[Bolty]

If you look at those Lurkers with PvP realm preference (and really Mongo, I'd expect more from you than namecalling over a preference) they are spread out across many of the PvP servers, instead of organized onto one. That is/was the problem, not that there aren't enough of you.[right][snapback]88120[/snapback][/right]

Seconded. A lack of organization of PvP players is what doomed the PvP subset, while us carebears made sure we gathered on one server.

-Bolty

[MongoJerry]

(and really Mongo, I'd expect more from you than namecalling over a preference).

I use the term "carebear" with love and affection.

A lack of organization of PvP players is what doomed the PvP subset, while us carebears made sure we gathered on one server.

Most of the Lurkers who are currently on PvP servers already had guilds or groups of friends to play with and chose their servers accordingly. Of the Lurkers who chose their servers specifically to play with Lurkers, most were naturally carebears and gravitated to Stormrage. It didn't help that Bolty started things off with his "sky is falling" trip on PvP, and I feel that people's bad experiences with ganking in Diablo II predisposed them to avoid what is in fact quite a different game in WoW. Of course, battlegrounds were always considered an on-the-horizon "have my cake and eat it too" option for PvE servers -- "I'll be able to PvP whenever *I* want to!" But until linked battlegrounds makes that a reality, I'm happy with the choice I made. Actually, I'll be happy with that afterwards, too, as PvP makes so many otherwise simple encounters like Kazzak and Azuregos far more interesting and dynamic.

Will The Core folks be on during the day?

There are TC people on 24/7, but it's tough to get in. Basically, unless you're a druid or a warlock, there's slim-to-little chance. TC wants to be exactly the right size to raid dungeons and put up some PvP fights without getting any bigger. I'd suggest that you start off with The Basin, which has an open door policy (I like the description of the open door policy that works both coming in and being booted out).

I'd like to take a level 6 rogue into the Alliance starting area and kill some humans.

I'm afraid you'll have to wait until about level 20 to do that. The starting areas are considered home territory even on PvP servers. It's only at about level 20ish that people start venturing into contested territory.

[Boutros]

When Boutros uses the word "we," he means the Basin, since the Lurking Loungers has largely disbanded (although I have an alt who maintains defacto guild leadership on the server).  Too many Lurker Lounge carebears at the start of retail meant that not enough Lurkers were ever on Tichondrius to form the critical mass necessary to sustain an on-line PvP guild there. [right][snapback]88117[/snapback][/right]

Thanks for the clarification, I think I misread the original post and somehow saw the word basin. In my defense it was late at night.

[Bolty]

It didn't help that Bolty started things off with his "sky is falling" trip on PvP, and I feel that people's bad experiences with ganking in Diablo II predisposed them to avoid what is in fact quite a different game in WoW.[right][snapback]88147[/snapback][/right]

Once again, you continue to insult Lurkers by insinuating they are a bunch of mindless zombies that will do anything I say, despite history that proves that untrue. What makes this site great are its independent thinkers who are capable of making their own conclusions rather than just believing what someone else says.

I outlined it in simple terms, and you can reference my posts made at that time that still exist on this forum: PvP servers are more exciting, thrilling, and more involving. But if you don't like being ganked, if it makes your blood boil, you want to stay far away. No dishonor system = no Bolty. Put one in and I'll join you on Tich the same day.

And that's still true (for me at least). I can't stand ganking. It's simply not fun. I went through it for four months on a PvP server in beta, getting spanked by characters 20 levels above me and only rarely actually fighting someone near my level so that I could get the satisfaction of whomping them. Battlegrounds for the win!

-Bolty

[Kevin]

When Boutros uses the word "we," he means the Basin, since the Lurking Loungers has largely disbanded (although I have an alt who maintains defacto guild leadership on the server).  Too many Lurker Lounge carebears at the start of retail meant that not enough Lurkers were ever on Tichondrius to form the critical mass necessary to sustain an on-line PvP guild there.  But that's OK, since many Lurkers have found places in other on-line guilds there, including The Basin, Unholy Legion, and my guild, The Core.
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The other big big issue is that most lurkers are alliance scum. The PvP server choice was to go horde. Personally I like horde a lot more (hence the PvE guild I started on Terenas for horde) but most Lurkers are alliance and that was Stormrage. Heck I'm alliance scum now because of the critical mass we have. :)

I'm actually going to be getting back to Tich a bit again now that I can play horde. But the issue is that one of the best ways to avoid ganking is to be grouped. Doesn't stop it but it limits it and it increases your options. So I'm very much wanting to know the best way to find people there that aren't all L60. :)

[MongoJerry]

Once again, you continue to insult Lurkers by insinuating they are a bunch of mindless zombies that will do anything I say, despite history that proves that untrue.  What makes this site great are its independent thinkers who are capable of making their own conclusions rather than just believing what someone else says.

No, I say quite specifically two things: 1) Lurkers tend to be less PvP oriented and 2) The awful Diablo II ganking experiences predisposed many to believe that WoW would be the same way. When you came out with your "sky is falling" diatribe on PvP in WoW, even though you hadn't really tried it out (I've written much on that subject as well), you merely confirmed the fears that people already had. It's not a matter of being mindless sheep following your every word. It's a matter of you being an influential person who tipped the scales a certain direction. Yes, I do honestly believe that more people would have tried out a PvP server and found that they enjoyed the experience had you not written what you had.

Regarding the supposed "dishonor" system, all I can say is thank God that no such system is in place, because any such "solution" would be worse than the problem. But we've been through that, as well. Actually, the situation isn't too bad as it is. The hardest part is trying to level from 50-60, but then again, if you spend a lot of time grouped or in instances, that's not so bad either.

And this is twice that I've been accused in this thread of insulting people, when I haven't, and I'm well, insulted.

[lfd]

And this is twice that I've been accused in this thread of insulting people, when I haven't, and I'm well, insulted.
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You don't get to choose whether or not other people are insulted by what you say.

[Bolty]

When you came out with your "sky is falling" diatribe on PvP in WoW, even though you hadn't really tried it out (I've written much on that subject as well)[right][snapback]88213[/snapback][/right]

O.o

Four months solid on PvP servers wasn't trying it out?

-Bolty

[MongoJerry]

Four months solid on PvP servers wasn't trying it out?

Not when you kept restarting your characters, repeatedly ran through the "gauntlet," which at the time was the 20-40ish levels (now, it's the 50's), and when you mostly hung out in pseudo-alliance areas like Redridge, Duskwood, and the Wetlands, where of course most of your "PvP experience" would be ganking rather than real and fun PvP. You also stuck to your philosophy of getting every quest in an area rather than using flexibility and teamwork to avoid the gankers. I believe I likened your experience to walking into an area known to have a high crime rate late at night, getting mugged, and then shouting that the crime rate for the entire country was outrageous.

You don't get to choose whether or not other people are insulted by what you say.

Nope, but the reader can choose to be insulted or not. It's a matter of giving the writer the benefit of the doubt. I guess Mirajj has experienced the word "carebear" to be some gross insult and perhaps at one time, it was considered that way. But it's a commonly used every-day term that it's lost most of the stigma applied to it. One can choose to be insulted by the term "carebear" or one can read it as the common gamer shorthand term for "person who prefers PvE content and does not wish PvP content to interfere with one's gaming."

Regarding Bolty's alleged "insult," it was for words that I had neither written nor implied. I never said that Lurkers were "mindless zombies who will do anything [Bolty] says." If someone gets insulted by something I didn't write, that shows you're absolutely right that I can't choose whether someone else gets insulted.

Of course, the background to this discussion is that Bolty and I have had both public and private exchanges on this issue. I even begged Bolty to stop posting some of his more scathing commentaries, because I felt that it was interfering the in the creation of a possible vibrant Lurker PvP on-line guild on Tichondrius. This is an old argument. Bolty thinks he was just writing what he saw and that people just went to where they would have gone anyway. I think that there were several players who were on the fence but who were so burned by Diablo II's "PvP" that they chose to go to Stormrage when Bolty confirmed their worst fears. No amount of "Bolty's not telling you the whole story" reponses were going to overcome that, especially when Bolty kept going on-and-on and told in endless detail about that mage who terrorized him in Redridge. People make decisions like these based on emotion and gut-feeling, and the moment I and others came back with, "Well, yeah, that can happen, but..." the game was over, no matter how much we described how you can avoid the gankings, how you could use teamwork to help you, how much fun PvP in WoW is, how the PvP aspect adds an extra sense of thrill and excitement to what otherwise would be another collection quest or farming run, and how PvP creates a much stronger sence of community and comraderie among players in your faction.

[Alram]

I started this thread with the assumption that there was a Lurker guild on Tich. Obviously I was wrong. I am looking for the following:
1. PvP server
2. Lurkers
3. The Horde
4. Moderate size guild
5. Guildies on in the daytime (USA daytime)
6. New guild members welcomed
7. All current guildies are not level 55-60

I would appreciate it if any Lurkers would respond to this post if their guild meets most of these criteria.

[Brista]

I guess Mirajj has experienced the word "carebear" to be some gross insult and perhaps at one time, it was considered that way.  But it's a commonly used every-day term that it's lost most of the stigma applied to it.  One can choose to be insulted by the term "carebear" or one can read it as the common gamer shorthand term for "person who prefers PvE content and does not wish PvP content to interfere with one's gaming."

MJ everyone except you thinks carebear is offensive. I'm a pvper and I still think carebear is offensive

The fact that it's common has no bearing on its force. "Noob" is common and offensive. So (in a gaming context) is "gay"

If it's the typing that's the concern, just use PvEer which is shorter than carebear anyway

[Brista]

I started this thread with the assumption that there was a Lurker guild on Tich.  Obviously I was wrong. I am looking for the following:
1. PvP server
2. Lurkers

I believe there is no active Lurker pvp guild. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone

[Alram]

I believe there is no active Lurker pvp guild. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone
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It doesn't have to be a Lurker guild. It could be a guild with a bunch of Lurkers in it.

[Treesh]

I even begged Bolty to stop posting some of his more scathing commentaries, because I felt that it was interfering the in the creation of a possible vibrant Lurker PvP on-line guild on Tichondrius.  This is an old argument.  Bolty thinks he was just writing what he saw and that people just went to where they would have gone anyway.  I think that there were several players who were on the fence but who were so burned by Diablo II's "PvP" that they chose to go to Stormrage when Bolty confirmed their worst fears. 
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It's not just the PvP part that made very few Lurkers interested in Tichondrius. The fact that it's horde there factors in as well. We have a small population on Terenus and that's PvE. There are quite a few Lurkers who play on the North American servers that just don't enjoy playing Horde as much as they enjoy Alliance. Generally it's PvE>PvP and Alliance>Horde. Unfortunately this puts Tichondrius at the bottom of both scales so it's not too surprising that there are fewer PvP Horde Lurkers around. Yes, Bolty's comments at the end of beta may have influenced some fence sitters on the PvP vs PvE servers, but they certainly didn't influence the Horde vs Alliance aspect of it. We aren't rolling in bodies on Terenas (although we are getting more and more which is wonderful), and we're a PvE server.