Why Bother Rebuilding New Orleans
#1
Matagorda Bay is where Rita is allegedly heading.

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online...s/II/hvi11.html

INDIANOLA, TEXAS.

The port of Indianola, on Matagorda Bay in Calhoun County, was founded in August 1846 as Indian Point by Sam Addison Whiteqv and William M. Cook. In 1844 a stretch of beach near the point had been selected by Carl, Prince of Solms Braunfels,qv commissioner general of the Adelsverein,qv as the landing place for German immigrants bound for western Texas under the sponsorship of the society.

The German landing area was referred to, briefly, as Karlshafen. One immigrant, Johann Schwartz, built the first house in the area in 1845. Indian Point became firmly established as a deep-water port during the Mexican War.qv For thirty years its army depot supplied frontier forts in western Texas. Anglo-American landowners in the area had the site surveyed in 1846 and began selling lots. The post office was opened in September 1847, and stagecoach service to the interior began in January 1848.

Mrs. Angelina Belle Eberly,qv heroine of the Archive Warqv in Austin, moved to Indian Point in 1848 and operated hotels there until her death in 1860. In February 1849 the name of the growing town was changed to Indianola. Indianola was the county seat of Calhoun County from 1852 to 1886. The town grew rapidly, expanding three miles down the beach to Powderhorn Bayou, following its selection by Charles Morganqv as the Matagorda Bay terminus for his New York-based steamship line. In a short time, Indianola achieved the rank of the second port of Texas, a position it held until the catastrophic hurricane of September 16, 1875, devastated the low-lying city and caused great loss of life.

Indianola was the eastern end of the southern Chihuahua Trail, the military road to San Antonio, Austin, and Chihuahua, Mexico, as well as the road to San Diego, the shortest overland route to the Pacific. It became the chief port through which European and American immigrants flowed into western Texas. In 1850 the United States Boundary Commission landed in Indianola, en route to El Paso del Norte to begin the survey of the boundary with Mexico, as required by the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.qv The first newspaper in Indianola was the Bulletin, founded in 1852 by John Henry Brown.qv Other papers of the period were the Courier, the Times, and the Indianolan.

The town was incorporated in 1853, the year in which City Hospital began operation. In 1856 and 1857 two shiploads of camelsqv were landed at Indianola. Under the direction of Secretary of War Jefferson Davis, the animals were used in one of the most extraordinary experiments in the history of the department, the use of camels in the transportation of military supplies in the southwestern United States. Indianola was bombarded by Union gunboats on October 26, 1862, then occupied and looted. The Union forces withdrew the following month but returned in November 1863, seized the city again, and remained until 1864.

The world's first shipment of mechanically refrigerated beef moved from Indianola to New Orleans on the Morgan steamship Agnes in July 1869, opening a new era in the transportation of perishable goods. Railroad service from Indianola to the interior began in 1871. With a population of more than 5,000, Indianola was at the peak of her prosperity when the 1875 hurricane struck. The town rebuilt on a smaller scale and then was almost obliterated by the hurricane of August 20, 1886, and the accompanying fire. By 1887 the site had been abandoned.

See also INDIANOLA HURRICANES, INDIANOLA RAILROAD.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: T. Lindsay Baker, Ghost Towns of Texas (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1986). Brownson Malsch, Indianola-The Mother of Western Texas (Austin: Shoal Creek, 1977).

Brownson Malsch
=====================================================

New Orleans can be expected to get hit by another hurricane. The question is how many, and how frequently.

Why pour bad money after good?

If global warming is continuing, be it due to natural cycles or human agency, or both, then the mean summer and fall temperatures of the Gulf of Mexico will continue to rise. This means that the chimney effect, the "steroid boost" to tropical storms and small hurricanes, will continue to trigger more frequently, which means low lying cities, even Major Shipping Cities, will continue to get flattened.

Maybe the lower lying parts of NO should be abandoned, and sites on higher ground, and even further up river at higher elevations, should be chosen to stage the warehousing, shipping, and other commercial activities necessary to exploit the Mississippi / Missouri economic pipeline.

Or, maybe the US ought to take a good hard look at how the Dutch handle their low lying lands with some of the wonders of the modern world, ocean engineering wise, and plaigerise the dickens out of them. :D

Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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#2
According to Bush and his scientific panel, global warming doesn't exist. And they wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

So I call BS. <_<


























Ok seriously though, I don't think they should rebuild either. But nobody is taking me seriously.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.

And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.

"Isn't this where...."
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#3
Hi,

Occhidiangela,Sep 21 2005, 09:53 AM Wrote:New Orleans can be expected to get hit by another hurricane.&nbsp; The question is how many, and how frequently.

Why pour bad money after good?&nbsp;
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Even if we ignore all the emotional issues, that is a very complex question. That there needs to be a seaport somewhere near the mouth of the Mississippi is self evident. But that region is alluvial for a long way up the river. That whole region is steadily sinking and being replaced by the silt brought down stream. Wherever the port is located, it must be able to service sea going vessels as well as river traffic. Too far up the river, and the need to keep the passages dredged will cost more than the hurricane protection further down.

Then there's the whole question of infrastructure. How much of NO's roads, power lines, distribution stations, etc. have survived? Considering the situations at other flood sites over the years, I'd guess a lot. Will it be cheaper to repair and reuse what survived or to start elsewhere from scratch? And if we throw in the cost of hurricane protection (for I doubt hat it will be possible to build a viable port far enough up river to make hurricane protection unnecessary), will it cost less to repair and upgrade NO's system or build a new one.

Me? I'm in favor of saving NO and throwing out all the Louisiana politicos. Don't make the city pay the price for the incompetence and corruption of those in charge of it. But that just reflects the high opinion I have of politicians in general ;)

--Pete

How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?

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#4
Doc,Sep 21 2005, 05:16 PM Wrote:According to Bush and his scientific panel, global warming doesn't exist. And they wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

I thought they do agree that it does - but they just don't want to "Hurt America's economy" by looking into alternative fuel sources. A fancy term for "Hurt the coal industry, since boy do those guys send us nice checks come campaign time."
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#5
Pete,Sep 21 2005, 11:38 AM Wrote:Hi,
Even if we ignore all the emotional issues, that is a very complex question.&nbsp; That there needs to be a seaport somewhere near the mouth of the Mississippi is self evident.&nbsp; But that region is alluvial for a long way up the river.&nbsp; That whole region is steadily sinking and being replaced by the silt brought down stream.&nbsp; Wherever the port is located, it must be able to service sea going vessels as well as river traffic.&nbsp; Too far up the river, and the need to keep the passages dredged will cost more than the hurricane protection further down.

Then there's the whole question of infrastructure.&nbsp; How much of NO's roads, power lines, distribution stations, etc. have survived?&nbsp; Considering the situations at other flood sites over the years, I'd guess a lot.&nbsp; Will it be cheaper to repair and reuse what survived or to start elsewhere from scratch?&nbsp; And if we throw in the cost of hurricane protection (for I doubt hat it will be possible to build a viable port far enough up river to make hurricane protection unnecessary), will it cost less to repair and upgrade NO's system or build a new one.

Me?&nbsp; I'm in favor of saving NO and throwing out all the Louisiana politicos.&nbsp; Don't make the city pay the price for the incompetence and corruption of those in charge of it.&nbsp; But that just reflects the high opinion I have of politicians in general ;)

--Pete
[right][snapback]89842[/snapback][/right]

Louisiana is Americ'a "special needs" state and always has been. It is the only state that does not adhere to the Universal Commercial Code. (More trivia from a Business Law class . . .) Elements of Code Napoleon are still part and parcel of its laws, but then, elements of English Common Law and the Magna Carta could be said to be embedded in the other 49 states, so that's a wash. ;)

The question of innovative building concepts arises, since the Air Force some years ago had blueprints drawn up for a floating air field that was moored. It was this big bloody floating concrete thing that supported both runways and ramps, as well as some hangars. I wonder if it was an extension of the Mulberry harbors from Normandy days.

Well, there's an idea for harbor facilities. There are already offshore pipelines that take delivery from supertankers.

The question is: what about containers and dry bulk goods? Solve that thorny problem, and you still have to deal with "where do the people who work there live."

Houses on really strong stilts?

*scratches head*

It may be that a smaller, more compact New Orleans is in a better position to withstand cat 4 hurricanes. Or, maybe a rework of the canal/dyke system is in order. That's expensive. :(

Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Reply
#6
I say we start buliding there the first vast undersea city, with bubble domes and minisub cabs.
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.
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#7
Doc,Sep 21 2005, 05:16 PM Wrote:Ok seriously though, I don't think they should rebuild either. But nobody is taking me seriously.
[right][snapback]89840[/snapback][/right]

I've been getting dirty looks from people for a few weeks for suggesting "chalk one up for mother nature and move on".

Whether you believe that the recent strong hurricane seasons are due to global warming or a natural cyclical occurance (or a little bit of both), my conclusion is the same. There are better ways for spending a few $100B.
Signature? What do you mean?
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#8
Rhydderch Hael,Sep 21 2005, 02:35 PM Wrote:I say we start buliding there the first vast undersea city, with bubble domes and minisub cabs.
[right][snapback]89848[/snapback][/right]
I fully support this endeavour. Sign me up right now.
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#9
Hi,

DeeBye,Sep 21 2005, 07:16 PM Wrote:I fully support this endeavour.&nbsp; Sign me up right now.
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Come on over. Don't forget your flippers, tank, and shovel. Oh, and better bring some bottled water, too. :)

--Pete

How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?

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#10
Any1,Sep 22 2005, 10:08 AM Wrote:I've been getting dirty looks from people for a few weeks for suggesting "chalk one up for mother nature and move on".&nbsp;

Whether you believe that the recent strong hurricane seasons are due to global warming or a natural cyclical occurance (or a little bit of both), my conclusion is the same.&nbsp; There are better ways for spending a few $100B.
[right][snapback]89865[/snapback][/right]

You need to be careful when quoting those figures. The ~$200B 'cost' also has benefits. Where do you think that money is going to... into the reconstruction industries, thus, as with any other govt. spending it gets recycled through the system.

This is definately a better situation than waking up tomorrow and realising that your bank account was suddenly ~$200B worse off.

(Although even this is a bit shallow and at the other extreme since it depends on where that $200B is 'coming from' e.g. debt increase, tax increase, or spending reduction)

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#11
Occhidiangela,Sep 22 2005, 05:53 AM Wrote:Or, maybe the US ought to take a good hard look at how the Dutch handle their low lying lands with some of the wonders of the modern world, ocean engineering wise, and plaigerise the dickens out of them.&nbsp; :D

Occhi
[right][snapback]89837[/snapback][/right]
Well, the first thing that sprung into my mind was the designs of Buckminster-Fuller... good luck trying to get anyone take those with a straight face though :)
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#12
whyBish,Sep 22 2005, 02:02 AM Wrote:Well, the first thing that sprung into my mind was the designs of Buckminster-Fuller... good luck trying to get anyone take those with a straight face though&nbsp; :)
[right][snapback]89910[/snapback][/right]

I hear they worked best with a few tokes from the pipe . . . though I have seen houses out West made as geodesic domes. They work, and I think they look pretty neat.

Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Reply
#13
Occhidiangela,Sep 23 2005, 02:16 AM Wrote:I hear they worked best with a few tokes from the pipe . . . though I have seen houses out West made as geodesic domes.&nbsp; They work, and I think they look pretty neat.

Occhi
[right][snapback]89914[/snapback][/right]
Well, at the moment I'm very tempted to buy an 11acre forest just to stick in my own geodesic dome... $US60k for 11 Acres of half mature pine forest...
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#14
Rhydderch Hael,Sep 21 2005, 06:35 PM Wrote:I say we start buliding there the first vast undersea city, with bubble domes and minisub cabs.
[right][snapback]89848[/snapback][/right]
No no no! We rename it "Atlantis" and make it a tourist attraction!

Think of the merchandise. Coffee cups, caps, your very own "Atlantis surf board" etc.

"I found the lost city of Atlantis, but all that remained was this lousy t-shirt"-tshirts.
Ask me about Norwegian humour Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTs9SE2sDTw
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#15
[wcip]Angel,Sep 26 2005, 03:28 AM Wrote:No no no! We rename it "Atlantis" and make it a tourist attraction!

Think of the merchandise. Coffee cups, caps, your very own "Atlantis surf board" etc.

"I found the lost city of Atlantis, but all that remained was this lousy t-shirt"-tshirts.
[right][snapback]90168[/snapback][/right]

What if people get it mixed with Atlanta?
I may be dead, but I'm not old (source: see lavcat)

The gloves come off, I'm playing hardball. It's fourth and 15 and you're looking at a full-court press. (Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun)

Some people in forums do the next best thing to listening to themselves talk, writing and reading what they write (source, my brother)
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#16
Minionman,Sep 26 2005, 03:21 PM Wrote:What if people get it mixed with Atlanta?
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The Land of the Bees* and The Home of the Braves? :D




Occhi





* = Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets. ;)
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Reply
#17
Speaking of sports names, I wonder if there is some team named after a carnivorous plant.
I may be dead, but I'm not old (source: see lavcat)

The gloves come off, I'm playing hardball. It's fourth and 15 and you're looking at a full-court press. (Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun)

Some people in forums do the next best thing to listening to themselves talk, writing and reading what they write (source, my brother)
Reply
#18
Minionman,Sep 27 2005, 03:44 PM Wrote:Speaking of sports names, I wonder if there is some team named after a carnivorous plant.
[right][snapback]90258[/snapback][/right]
Like that tennis player, whats-er-name? :P
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#19
whyBish,Sep 27 2005, 12:23 AM Wrote:Like that tennis player, whats-er-name?&nbsp; :P
[right][snapback]90270[/snapback][/right]

You mean Venus "Fly Trap" Williams? That nickname is not hers, by the way.

I don't think she'd like that as a nickname, considering that "fly" is the term for frontal opening in a man's trousers. The connotation of fly trap is ribald at best, and downright offensive at worst. I don't think any girl would want to be called "fly trap," save perhaps a hooker --

Oh, wait, there are female ruggers. Given the many ruggers I have known and gotten pissed with, were a girl named Venus playing the center of the front row in the scrum on a rugby team, she might not mind being called Fly Trap . . . but Venus Williams is not a rugger, she is a tennis player. (That means she plays with fuzzy, not leather, balls.) ;)

Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Reply
#20
Occhi, that was so ribald and dirty on so many levels...

You had to much fun writing that, didn't you?
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.

And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.

"Isn't this where...."
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