Moonwell Dancers Nightly Raids

[Hyacinth]

I was unhappy with my play last night, and I want to share some of the issues that are making this guild recently less enjoyable for myself & others.

First, Not all of us want to do a raid every night. We build our characters for many reasons, not just to be pulled into a raid. The comments and pressure from those that do want to raid every night are strong - comments like "It's terrible seeing how many 60's are playing alts when a guild raid is set," etc. This applies a strong leverage that if we are part of MWD, we must join a raid if we are on.

Last night, I was in an extremely enjoyable DM group with my son when the "How can you be in DM when it's a raid time?" commentary started. This group had started earlier, was going very well and was a lot of fun.

Unfortunately, I bowed to the pressure as a senior MWD member and broke the DM group. The decision was made to do LBRS, which meant that my son, who was playing with me, could not spend the time for the raid since it was too long an instance. We lost other members of the DM group who also did not want to play too late.

The LBRS raid started out well - we had one very funny wipe, but towards the end, players were getting tired. We had a second wipe almost at the end. At this time, the raid leader bailed on us, being unhappy that there was insufficient aggro control. This was totally unacceptable. The rest of the group wanted to continue, but our rezer made a mistake (that I also have made) and entered the instance before our druid could sneak back in and rez him in place. Eventually many of us got back together, but by then the die was cast - the group fell apart just before the last 2 bosses.

It's unacceptable for a group leader to bail when things go wrong. Rather than harangue other players, it's the time for calm instruction and guidance. It's unacceptable to be intolerant that others may not want to go on raids 5 days a week, and may want to play in other fashions. The guild raid at 7 is to allow those that want to raid to have a common time to meet, not to force guild members into those raids. I was pretty unhappy last night with the guild. I won't let it happen again.

[Mavfin]

I was unhappy with my play last night, and I want to share some of the issues that are making this guild recently less enjoyable for myself & others.

First, Not all of us want to do a raid every night. We build our characters for many reasons, not just to be pulled into a raid. The comments and pressure from those that do want to raid every night are strong - comments like "It's terrible seeing how many 60's are playing alts when a guild raid is set," etc. This applies a strong leverage that if we are part of MWD, we must join a raid if we are on.

Last night, I was in an extremely enjoyable DM group with my son when the "How can you be in DM when it's a raid time?" commentary started. This group had started earlier, was going very well and was a lot of fun.

Unfortunately, I bowed to the pressure as a senior MWD member and broke the DM group. The decision was made to do LBRS, which meant that my son, who was playing with me, could not spend the time for the raid since it was too long an instance. We lost other members of the DM group who also did not want to play too late.

The LBRS raid started out well - we had one very funny wipe, but towards the end, players were getting tired. We had a second wipe almost at the end. At this time, the raid leader bailed on us, being unhappy that there was insufficient aggro control. This was totally unacceptable. The rest of the group wanted to continue, but our rezer made a mistake (that I also have made) and entered the instance before our druid could sneak back in and rez him in place. Eventually many of us got back together, but by then the die was cast - the group fell apart just before the last 2 bosses.

It's unacceptable for a group leader to bail when things go wrong. Rather than harangue other players, it's the time for calm instruction and guidance. It's unacceptable to be intolerant that others may not want to go on raids 5 days a week, and may want to play in other fashions. The guild raid at 7 is to allow those that want to raid to have a common time to meet, not to force guild members into those raids. I was pretty unhappy last night with the guild. I won't let it happen again.
[right][snapback]90839[/snapback][/right]

I think the guild is at a crossroads once again. Are we going to build to the big raids, or are we not.

Are we going to develop the discipline to raid MC/ZG consistently, or is it going to be a wipefest because no one will learn aggro control, and the raid leader is not allowed to say anything.

The leadership needs to make a decision. If we're not raiding nightly, then I don't want to hear gripes about us not *doing* anything. What direction are we going to go, Hya? Cyr?

I fully understand if we wish to keep the flavor of the guild as it has been, where 18 players are on, and we can't run a DM run AND a LBRS 8-man raid. But, if that's the way MWD will be, then it's time for the lvl 60 regular raiders to move on, as we don't fit there with our 60's anymore. Great for the alts, but not for the raiders. It's a great guild we've built here, but, I don't think it's going to be a raid home, as much as we want it to be.

I've stated I'm not moving, however, that was with the current "We're going to build to raid" that I've been told. Is this no longer true? We just need to figure that out, really.



And, on another subject, yes, I was the raid leader. I left after the raid went belly-up, because of poor aggro control. I had asked patiently for better control, but I was ignored. I wasn't going to spend another hour in there fighting that. Probably wasnt' the best thing to do, and I apologize for that. I won't do that again.

However, if the attitude toward raids is to make them a low priority within the guild, then there's no need for me to lead them anymore.



Guys, raiding the big instances takes a lot of work and preparation. You don't just make a 60 and go to MC with 39 others. You have to get your gear, you have to be practiced up, you have to know your role.

I'm not seeing that from but a few MWDs. I think it's time to acknowledge that this isn't going to be the home of MC raiding or ZG raiding on a regular basis, and let it be the wonderful guild home it has always been, but let the raiders take their 60s to raid elsewhere w/o feeling guilty about it. Either acknowledge it, or change priorities, and I think I know which is the better choice for the guild.


Discussion, please!

In the end, this is Cyr's guild. Cyradis is going to have to decide what we want to do with this guild, and how much input anyone else has is up to her. I will publicly state that I will support whatever direction she wants to go with this, but decision time is here, and I will always have characters building here as long as I'm allowed to and still playing WoW. Wd're deciding what the few regular raiders who want to do ZG and MC and stuff should do. Continuing as we have with a 'we want to raid' when the guild as a whole really isn't that interested , is not a good idea.

My opinion is that too much guild strife is caused/going to be caused by the raiders trying to impose their needs on the guild. It's been a long time coming, but the time has come for that to end, and the raiders to move their 60's and not push the guild to be what it's not. YMMV.


Please don't take this as wanting to divide the guild. I think it's time to take this divisive issue *out of the guild*. I would like to hear other opinions.

--Kesh

[Hyacinth]

The question of guild direction is important. We need to recognize that individuals have different desires for gameplay. Can those differences be accomodated in one guild? After all, that's part of why there are different guilds out there. I like to believe that there is room for "daily" raiders and those who don't want to raid every day, but would like to join a group a few times a week. To do that, we need to be tolerant of the desire to form a raid, and tolerant of those who want to do something else on some evenings. That also means that some days we may not get a raid group together.

Right now, we have some people on vacation and school pressures keeping others offline. That means the group is smaller than it might appear. That too is a reality we need to face. Judicious recruiting can help increase the pool of individuals that will be online, and thus the raid groups can be more predictable. Recruiting of good individuals may be the right answer - providing a solid network of people that can join for a raid, or for more casual gameplay.

Will we be a major MC raid guild? Honestly, I care about that less than having a network of individuals that I enjoy. Cyr would like to build the group to MC capability, and it can do so with time and care. But if we want to build the group skills to that point, it will take patience and instruction. It will take carefully guided raids where group expectations are laid out prior to each encounter area. It will take leadership from those that do want to build an MC capability. And it will take careful recruiting.

I'd like to see Moonwell Dancers be able to accomodate social gaming and the raid groups. I'd like to be able to join a raid group with guild members a few times a week. I'd also like to be able to play solo, with an alt, or just with a smaller group of friends on other days. My schedule is not going to be bound to Monday and Wednesday as open days. I don't want to have to commit that if I am online any other evening, that I will be in a raid group. Can we make Moonwell Dancers a guild that is capable of supporting this? I think the answer is yes.

The 7PM time can be a general meeting time for anyone who wants to go into a raid group. Most nights, a group should be able to be formed, as it has been. Those who don't want to join, should not feel pressure to join. Also, people should not actively recruit for instance runs at 7PM, although again, there will be some casual groups that will overlap for folks who don't want to do the raid run. With good membership, this should not be an issue.

Raid leadership should rotate - it is not fair to expect one or two individuals to always organize and manage the raids. We need a solid cadre of leaders - folks like Keshi, Zia, Friz, Cyr and a few more who will lead the raids. This will help provide variety, as well as a deeper bench of leaders.

We can not be a guild of all things to all people though. For individuals that want to have 15-40 person raids each night, we have a long way to go, if ever. There are guilds that are far more aggressive at raiding than we are. Those that are looking for that sort of very high-intensity experience may be better off in one of those guilds. I personally would like to keep the more casual and friendly atmosphere that characterizes Moonwell Dancers.

Let's hear your thoughts. What do you want from Moonwell Dancers?

[Mavfin]

The question of guild direction is important. We need to recognize that individuals have different desires for gameplay. Can those differences be accomodated in one guild? After all, that's part of why there are different guilds out there. I like to believe that there is room for "daily" raiders and those who don't want to raid every day, but would like to join a group a few times a week. To do that, we need to be tolerant of the desire to form a raid, and tolerant of those who want to do something else on some evenings. That also means that some days we may not get a raid group together.

Right now, we have some people on vacation and school pressures keeping others offline. That means the group is smaller than it might appear. That too is a reality we need to face. Judicious recruiting can help increase the pool of individuals that will be online, and thus the raid groups can be more predictable. Recruiting of good individuals may be the right answer - providing a solid network of people that can join for a raid, or for more casual gameplay.

Will we be a major MC raid guild? Honestly, I care about that less than having a network of individuals that I enjoy. Cyr would like to build the group to MC capability, and it can do so with time and care. But if we want to build the group skills to that point, it will take patience and instruction. It will take carefully guided raids where group expectations are laid out prior to each encounter area. It will take leadership from those that do want to build an MC capability. And it will take careful recruiting.

I'd like to see Moonwell Dancers be able to accomodate social gaming and the raid groups. I'd like to be able to join a raid group with guild members a few times a week. I'd also like to be able to play solo, with an alt, or just with a smaller group of friends on other days. My schedule is not going to be bound to Monday and Wednesday as open days. I don't want to have to commit that if I am online any other evening, that I will be in a raid group. Can we make Moonwell Dancers a guild that is capable of supporting this? I think the answer is yes.

The 7PM time can be a general meeting time for anyone who wants to go into a raid group. Most nights, a group should be able to be formed, as it has been. Those who don't want to join, should not feel pressure to join. Also, people should not actively recruit for instance runs at 7PM, although again, there will be some casual groups that will overlap for folks who don't want to do the raid run. With good membership, this should not be an issue.

Raid leadership should rotate - it is not fair to expect one or two individuals to always organize and manage the raids. We need a solid cadre of leaders - folks like Keshi, Zia, Friz, Cyr and a few more who will lead the raids. This will help provide variety, as well as a deeper bench of leaders.

We can not be a guild of all things to all people though. For individuals that want to have 15-40 person raids each night, we have a long way to go, if ever. There are guilds that are far more aggressive at raiding than we are. Those that are looking for that sort of very high-intensity experience may be better off in one of those guilds. I personally would like to keep the more casual and friendly atmosphere that characterizes Moonwell Dancers.

Let's hear your thoughts. What do you want from Moonwell Dancers?
[right][snapback]90930[/snapback][/right]

Lots of good stuff here.

1) I think we need to recognize the nights we're not going to get a raid going and be done with it. In all reality, we should have called 'no raid' last night.

2) Recruiting is a big issue. I, personally, am completely against *open recruiting* w/o some kind of screening. Miser does a sponsorship system, whereby people apply to them, and then the guild raids with them, and the person doesn't gain entrance unless a ranking guild member agrees they are worthy of sponsorship. This kind of carefully screened approach I could live with. However, with 3) below, it's a moot point.

3) Yeah, 7 PM will be a general time nightly for raids. No guarantees that a raid will make that night. If we don't have the numbers by 9:15, disband and go on, I think. No pressure to join, no criticism of other people in other instances or whatever. Someone build a rogue, please. Z will be in a raid guild with this one.

4) However, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. ZG and MC are out of reach for MWD with the above setup, most likely. We have to plan accordingly. You can't recruit, if you don't deliver any regular raids.

So, you come down to recruiting and delivering raids, or keeping it as you are, and forgetting about regular raids, only raiding when someone is willing to lead one and deal with the frustration of forming a full raid one night in three, maybe. I don't think you can do both. YMMV.

Regardless, with the clear statement above, I think it's time for Keshi to apply to raid, but I'll be like Monkee..building an alt here, and raiding with MWD all the time, but not expecting MWD to take part in anything they don't want to.

[Cyradis]

The question of guild direction is important. We need to recognize that individuals have different desires for gameplay. Can those differences be accomodated in one guild? After all, that's part of why there are different guilds out there. I like to believe that there is room for "daily" raiders and those who don't want to raid every day, but would like to join a group a few times a week. To do that, we need to be tolerant of the desire to form a raid, and tolerant of those who want to do something else on some evenings. That also means that some days we may not get a raid group together.

Right now, we have some people on vacation and school pressures keeping others offline. That means the group is smaller than it might appear. That too is a reality we need to face. Judicious recruiting can help increase the pool of individuals that will be online, and thus the raid groups can be more predictable. Recruiting of good individuals may be the right answer - providing a solid network of people that can join for a raid, or for more casual gameplay.

Will we be a major MC raid guild? Honestly, I care about that less than having a network of individuals that I enjoy. Cyr would like to build the group to MC capability, and it can do so with time and care. But if we want to build the group skills to that point, it will take patience and instruction. It will take carefully guided raids where group expectations are laid out prior to each encounter area. It will take leadership from those that do want to build an MC capability. And it will take careful recruiting.

I'd like to see Moonwell Dancers be able to accomodate social gaming and the raid groups. I'd like to be able to join a raid group with guild members a few times a week. I'd also like to be able to play solo, with an alt, or just with a smaller group of friends on other days. My schedule is not going to be bound to Monday and Wednesday as open days. I don't want to have to commit that if I am online any other evening, that I will be in a raid group. Can we make Moonwell Dancers a guild that is capable of supporting this? I think the answer is yes.

The 7PM time can be a general meeting time for anyone who wants to go into a raid group. Most nights, a group should be able to be formed, as it has been. Those who don't want to join, should not feel pressure to join. Also, people should not actively recruit for instance runs at 7PM, although again, there will be some casual groups that will overlap for folks who don't want to do the raid run. With good membership, this should not be an issue.

Raid leadership should rotate - it is not fair to expect one or two individuals to always organize and manage the raids. We need a solid cadre of leaders - folks like Keshi, Zia, Friz, Cyr and a few more who will lead the raids. This will help provide variety, as well as a deeper bench of leaders.

We can not be a guild of all things to all people though. For individuals that want to have 15-40 person raids each night, we have a long way to go, if ever. There are guilds that are far more aggressive at raiding than we are. Those that are looking for that sort of very high-intensity experience may be better off in one of those guilds. I personally would like to keep the more casual and friendly atmosphere that characterizes Moonwell Dancers.

Let's hear your thoughts. What do you want from Moonwell Dancers?
[right][snapback]90930[/snapback][/right]

The Blonde has Spoken!!!

The guild will continue to have runs meeting at 7pm game time, HOWEVER!!, we will be flexible in what we do, if some people can't stay for 3hours, we'll go to a shorter instance, if there are more wanting to go, we'll hit UBRS, and if we have the people and the time, LBRS.

People in the guild are welcome to have GUILD runs going such as Dire Maul, it promotes us getting our own runs together for fun instances and gearing up. (not all good gear is from BRS/Strat/Scholo). PuGs are not as welcome, since if you are wanting to do runs, we'd like to have you with us. Friends also count on the list that is welcome for runs, if you're friend wants to hit BRD, go ahead and help your friend.

We deeply encourage you coming on runs with us regularly, but we'll understand if you're just too tired, don't have time, or have a real life. Our goal on these runs is to get geared up for FUTURE POTENTIAL runs while having FUN!!!!

And leaders of runs are expected to RESPECT other players at all times, and stick around for the ENTIRE run, unless all people are too pooped to continue. If things aren't going just right, gently mention ways to improve that. Also leaders are expected to explain certain things such as mobs that call for help, or special spawns like with the halycon encounter in LBRS. If you aren't telling people what to expect, you aren't leading. The leader needs to make sure that EVERYONE is ready for the next group of monsters, all is looted before going on to the next, or instructing that a portal is made out!!

If there is one person that is clearly acting weird, drawing aggro a lot, or not doing his/her job, just send a friends whisper "hey, can you please shoot a little later" or "buffs please :)"

Leaders should also make sure everyone is buffed and ready, if someone croaks, the leader instructs the rebuffing to make sure all are ready again.

AND THE BIGGEST THING IS!!!....

The leader must participate in the fun, even small victories, even wipes, and see the humor in it. Your job as leader is to promote us having fun while playing well!! People aren't going to come with us if the leaders make the run not-fun!! There are already a few people that have said that they aren't interested on raids because leaders have been overly serious. You CAN be serious about doing things well, without being so serious that the game isn't fun!!!

To Keshi, go buy Buffy the Vampire Season 7, and watch the whole thing. All 20 hours. You've got 50days played, you have time to watch it. Note that THE LEADER DOES NOT GIVE UP no matter how bad things are looking!!! You cannot lead if you think you are going to fail in the end!! Despite wipes, despite a lame group, you have to keep a face that you will win!!

If someone is new on runs but has started the invites, they will still be the leader!! If Hya was the leader of a LBRS run, but didn't know each part, he will lead group by group, and whisper someone that does know if there is something special coming up so he can tell the others what to expect!!

And to those that are on alts when we really need more people, big brownie points and hugs if you come fill our run. We can't make you come, but we can try to have the best run we can, which may not happen without you there.

If we all decide that our alts want to hit SM... we can cancel our raid run for alt runs!!

I will have more ranting later, but for now The Blonde Has Spoken and both Hya and Kesh are going to shoosh and let ME speak for the guild.

The guild's goal is to have fun, through semi-nightly raids, alt runs, and helping others level up. We will progress at our own rate to ZG/MCability, whether that's 3months or a year, I don't know, and I don't really care because we WILL get there in OUR OWN TIME.

And about learning raids and getting geared up, people are not going to want to come and raid and learn if there isn't fun in it. Keep it fun and lighthearted, and people will come more.

ALL questions you have about my plans for the guild will be addressed to me, and if I have anything to note to you I will do so.

Now can the superiority complex Kesh, you need to see some blue skies, and Hya, try to come on runs and have fun.

For now neither of you will lead runs for a little while until I figure out some specifics in my head, the leading will be on Me, Friz, Monk, Zia, and if the others want to lead, they can have their chance as long as they ask enough questions.

It's not the time you spend in someplace, it's the fun in that place that you have. 4hours or 2hours, I don't care about if it's going long or short.

If people are asking for help on guild chat, please help them. If you're just shopping in IF and someone needs a buddy for a quest, give them a hand.

HMPH

We'll have the disipline in time, but you'll have to be patient!!! Don't get grumpy if people don't know what you haven't told them, or don't know anyway. If you come down too hard on them, they will not continue to follow you to learn more!!

Have I said enough???! :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

[Zia]

Well it looks like a bit happened last night even after my dsl took a poop. :(

Where do i start?

[QUOTE]We can not be a guild of all things to all people

This statement here is exactly why you need to lay it out now what you want from MWD.

If your going to be just a casual raiding guild dont expect any of the lvl 60's that raid on a regular basis or even the ones who want more out of the game than just strat scholo and the spires to stick around for any amount of time. There comes a point when you get bored and want to move on to the end game.

Also do not expect any of the people that raid on a daily basis to lead raids to anywhere when we have to fight to get a simple 10 man run for lbrs cause half of the guild is in DM or anywhere else. We all know what days we raid what time we start and what we are all after. These runs are not to boost any one person its to get us all equpited to move on to bigger and better things BUT this is not gonna happen for MWD as it is right now.

I apoligize to anyone who doesnt like me razing them about doing other things when its time for our Scheduled runs. But again that is our SCHEDULED time is it not? are you not suppose to be ready? if not then whats the point of having a raid time?

MWD is never gonna be able to hold any 60's they recruit cause they are gonna come to the same point im at right now, do i stay? or do i move on? Any high lvls we recruit are eventually gonna want way more than MWD can provide and will soon move on themselves.

I am on practically every raid there is with MWD if i am on. WHY you ask? well the answer is simple the guild can grow to be bigger and better BUT its gonna take leadership and change. We have the leadership what we dont have is a change. We need to change the mentality that a partially raiding guild is gonna grow and be succsessful, thats just not gonna happen its all or nothing.

When its time to raid its time to raid has nothing to do with intensity it has to do with wanting to make our guild The best ever.

So answer me this. Do we WANT to be Bigger and better?

Zia

[Cyradis]

[quote=Zia,Oct 3 2005, 11:32 PM]
Well it looks like a bit happened last night even after my dsl took a poop. :(

Where do i start?

[QUOTE]We can not be a guild of all things to all people

This statement here is exactly why you need to lay it out now what you want from MWD.

If your going to be just a casual raiding guild dont expect any of the lvl 60's that raid on a regular basis or even the ones who want more out of the game than just strat scholo and the spires to stick around for any amount of time. There comes a point when you get bored and want to move on to the end game.

Also do not expect any of the people that raid on a daily basis to lead raids to anywhere when we have to fight to get a simple 10 man run for lbrs cause half of the guild is in DM or anywhere else. We all know what days we raid what time we start and what we are all after. These runs are not to boost any one person its to get us all equpited to move on to bigger and better things BUT this is not gonna happen for MWD as it is right now.

I apoligize to anyone who doesnt like me razing them about doing other things when its time for our Scheduled runs. But again that is our SCHEDULED time is it not? are you not suppose to be ready? if not then whats the point of having a raid time?

MWD is never gonna be able to hold any 60's they recruit cause they are gonna come to the same point im at right now, do i stay? or do i move on? Any high lvls we recruit are eventually gonna want way more than MWD can provide and will soon move on themselves.

I am on practically every raid there is with MWD if i am on. WHY you ask? well the answer is simple the guild can grow to be bigger and better BUT its gonna take leadership and change. We have the leadership what we dont have is a change. We need to change the mentality that a partially raiding guild is gonna grow and be succsessful, thats just not gonna happen its all or nothing.

When its time to raid its time to raid has nothing to do with intensity it has to do with wanting to make our guild The best ever.

So answer me this. Do we WANT to be Bigger and better?

Zia
[right][snapback]90961[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


I think we do want to get bigger and better, but by forcing people to come on runs, we're not letting them come for the purposes of fun if it's so severely required. And people are not going to want to come if it isn't fun to start.

About learning and growing, that's all good, but sometimes we're going to have to step up and help without being too grumpy at them. One person that just didn't know can learn like riding a bike, once you learn you're fine, but before that you'll fall. With 9 other people, that wheel might get caught on ours, and we all fall down. The sooner we prove that these raids are fun to come on, the sooner people are going to be excited about coming on them, and when we show how to do it, the falling will stop.

What I'm seeing in you guys is a terrible lack of confidence. Thinking that people that haven't learned aren't going to learn, that's totally wrong; People will learn if you give them the chance!!

I know we need to get geared up, but if you aren't having fun doing that, there isn't a point of going. I already know one person that isn't too happy about trying to get up to raid level cause of so much drama, instead of learning to fight through fighting, and we have to stop that sort of thing. Correct things kindly.

I will be leading more runs, cause I am quite positive I can lead better than a bunch of others. I'll be open to suggestions on how to lead, but I will be leader, and acting as such. You'll need to support lead, and follow.

One other thing, I'd like to have people enjoying the runs soon. IRL I've proved for a fact that you can't learn well if you don't enjoy what you're doing, and our goal here is not to force learning the raids without enjoying them.

Anam Cara (Shani's main's guild) has asked us to try to go to MC with them around the beginning of November, and I'd very much like to see us ready for that. Will talk more in a bit, computer not taking the wall plug atm, and I need to get back for other stuff... tty-ingame

[monkee]

Hello MDs :)

First of all Moonwell Dancers is a great guild. It is the best guild I have been part of on Uldum. The people (u guys) are friendly and I have grown accustom to seeing majority of you on a daily basis.

My priest grew up in the MDs. The reason I pulled him out was the draw of the end game raids. I play WoW to meet nice people like the MDs but at the sametime I love the challenges the End Game Raids bring. I like the fact that each class has a job inorder for the Raid to be succesful.

I want to see the MWDs jump up to the end game raids because we deserve it more than most. The only thing I see holding this back from happening is the commitment from individuals to learn stratergy and the roles of classes. Oh yah..and being available for Raids. That is understandable...RL gets in the way of playing WoW :(. Maybe Raids can be scheduled 1 or 2 days a week when it is convenient for people to be on...the other days can be guild PuGs :P within itself.

What it comes down to is: Individuals WORKING together for the same goal = MWDs running amok in the end game instances. Id like to see that one day..hopefully soon. But it will take commitment from individuals to reach that goal.

kk..i am rambling..not even sure if this relates to anything :D but i just wanted to say stuff and make u read it..so..on and so on. :D

MWD FTW

[Cyradis]

Hello MDs  :)

First of all Moonwell Dancers is a great guild.  It is the best guild I have been part of on Uldum.  The people (u guys) are friendly and I have grown accustom to seeing majority of you on a daily basis.

My priest grew up in the MDs.  The reason I pulled him out was the draw of the end game raids.  I play WoW to meet nice people like the MDs but at the sametime I love the challenges the End Game Raids bring.  I like the fact that each class has a job inorder for the Raid to be succesful. 

I want to see the MWDs jump up to the end game raids because we deserve it more than most.  The only thing I see holding this back from happening is the commitment from individuals to learn stratergy and the roles of classes. Oh yah..and being available for Raids.  That is understandable...RL gets in the way of playing WoW  :(.  Maybe Raids can be scheduled 1 or 2 days a week when it is convenient for people to be on...the other days can be guild PuGs  :P within itself.

What it comes down to is:  Individuals WORKING together for the same goal = MWDs running amok in the end game instances.  Id like to see that one day..hopefully soon.  But it will take commitment from individuals to reach that goal.

kk..i am rambling..not even sure if this relates to anything :D but i just wanted to say stuff and make u read it..so..on and so on. :D

MWD FTW
[right][snapback]91020[/snapback][/right]

Thank you Monk for that :)

And I do like the idea of having more like 2-4 Guild Raids a week, and seeing how it goes from there. Sometimes you're just pooped. I have the excuse of "i'm tired, i might cause a pet wipe" but if you're pooped, you have the right to relax.

Other days we can ask if people want to come, have it as semi-free days, and maybe 2 DM runs will be more fun (not to mention give potentially better loot, and more learning experience) than 1 BRS run. It's still a guild run, right?

And yeah Monk, it relates a lot to what we've said. About people commiting though...

Get some confidence that we can do it people!! We won't be able to do anything if you're pessimistic that we can't do it or OMG we might wipe a few times... so what. We'll get back on the horse and keep going.

Do I have to multishot into a crowd to get you guys to improvize? Cause you know I will!! Raids need to = Fun. Okey dokey?

Ok... now I'm rambling. Ty monk :shuriken:

[Frizz]

Hey guys!

Well, guess I'm a little late on this discussion, but I'll add in my thoughts anyways. I'm very happy we're talking about this as I think over the past month, there's been increasing tension and we needed definition in our direction for sure. I think we all love playing with the MDs and that's why we all care enough to keep discussing how we can make sure that the guild can keep us all playing together, at least most of the time. This guild has great support, sharing, help, lots of instance runs, lots of general questing and really fun and funny people :)

I've read through all of your posts and I think all of you have great said some great stuff. Excellent highlights...
Kesh - completely against *open recruiting* w/o some kind of screening. (we've done pretty good most of the time recruiting, if we start getting to ZG and bigger stuff, it would be good to formalize a little more)
Zia - Any high lvls we recruit are eventually gonna want more than MWD can provide and will soon move on themselves. (pretty true, but if monk, elv, zia, kesh, me and some of our other split 60s like Kerana keep being very active, I think the guild can continue to grow, and we are setting a strong precedent for others that make the raiding decision in the short/medium term. In this way maybe we can keep growing and recruiting to a MC level where guildies won't leave for raiding reasons).
Blondie - Keep it fun and lighthearted, and people will come more
Blondie - And leaders of runs are expected to RESPECT other players at all times, and stick around for the ENTIRE run
Hya - Not all of us want to do a raid every night.
Kesh - No pressure to join, no criticism of other people in other instances or whatever.
Hya - It's unacceptable for a group leader to bail when things go wrong
Hya - Raid leadership should rotate (I agree and we need to be disciplined in letting each other lead a group without interference so we each get practice. If we have suggestions for each other, whisp them or use MDZG)
Monk - Moonwell Dancers is a great guild. It is the best guild I have been part of on Uldum. (doh, I agree! but I'm not supposed to agree with monk on anything!)
Monk - kk..i am rambling..not even sure if this relates to anything (ok, I can agree with him on this :P)

Some things to add/expand...
Me - We should post some further expectations for runs like coordination stuff (assist calls, learning class roles, pre-warn if your time is limited)
Me - I agree, pick two to four nights to raid together, no obligations, but strongly encouraged to raid with guildies as everyone suggested. Hopefully Cyr can work this out with her time inquiries.
Me - We continue to grow. I remember when I joined there were no 60s (I think Myst turned 60 a day or two later) and maybe 30 people. Now we are something like 180 with 35-40 60s! And we continue to grow. I think this is a tribute to the good people in our guild.
Me - Keep working on pulling new people into the 'core'. We've got a lot of good players coming up. We always need to keep focusing on pulling them into the main group, whether by instances, general questing or just chatting.
Me - All of this should be rewritten by Cyr as she sees fit into a new 'guild charter/direction' statement for the website.

Guys, I'm still completely MD and I believe we can keep growing. I think Monkee has actually set a good pattern for those of us that make the decision to find a way into MC or bigger instances until the MDs have time to grow more. If we can manage this kind of dual membership for some people and keep playing together, hopefully we can decrease the tensions that have resulted lately and get back to enjoying the game with each other more while at the same time building up our guild, gear, skills and teamwork.

Frizz :shuriken: