Patch Notes for "The Burning Crusade"?

[Urza-DSF]

3) THE FORSAKEN ARE TRYING TO KILL EVERYONE.

Uh no. They don't need to. You watch too many horror movies. That's the Lich king's scourge you're thinking of.

They're far less moral about their work, but they're mainly another form of life--life after death. They have free will, thus a chance to be good or evil. Sylvanna's long term goals and actions have yet to be written.
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Actually a lot of the Forsaken quest lines are about creating new poisons and plagues to essentially kill every living thing. Seems like the work of the Apothicary Society, but I've got no clue wether thats controled by Sylvanus or not.

[Roland]

I too wanted to play Alliance PvE at first, but having found myself thrust in a Horde PvP server playing a sup-par PvP class no less. . . first impressions rapidly changed.

Too often people associate 'pretty' with 'good'. You trick yourself when you immerse yourself in that illusion. In story terms, the Alliance factions hold together by no greater thread  than the Horde ones do. Gnomes? Unreliable, to the point of complete disappearance from WC3. Dwarves? They help, when pushed. Elves are notoriously arrogant, and Humans are the easiest to corrupt of all (Human Medivh, and Prince Arthas being the worst offenders). Alliance was good in WCI and II because they were the ones struggling in defense against a frightening enemy. Well, that enemy was cooped up, mistreated and escaped to become its own nation overseas as the alliance faltered in its 'noble' values when their lives were no longer threatened.

Mayhap NOW the Alliance holds together no better than Horde, especially after the events of WC3, but before that they held fast in the face of a common enemy. The Horde only enlisted forces to help them annihilate everything in their path (in WC1 and 2, as you noted). In WC3, if you ask me, EVERYONE was the bad guy. Hardly anyone could arise over the petty fighting of the past in order to band together for the greater good. So, in that respect, I don't see anyone as "good" in these days, especially given the atrocious actions of Admiral Proudmoore.

And yes, the Alliance did falter. No denying that. But I like to believe that there was, and still is, much good within the Alliance - something I've yet to be convinced of in the Horde. They've proven they are just as susceptible to corruption as Humans, having warred within their own bands due to corruption. I have no qualms with the Horde breaking free of their chains and sailing off to form a new home for themselves. Azeroth is more than big enough to accommodate everyone. I don't see them as evil for doing this. However, that doesn't mean they're automatically "good" now just because they wanted to strike out on their own. Far too many, on both sides, still cling to the old ways of hate and war. But I find it much easier (and perhaps THIS is shallow, or merely too easy) to strike out as a "good" guy, who doesn't hold to the old ways, under the flag of the Alliance, who have shown to be capable of far more than just mindless bloodlust. The Orcs have not proven to me, and I doubt even to themselves, that they are fully beyond their old ways, and as such have a LONG way to go before they truly return to their original, noble roots.

Note also, there is no state of war between horde and alliance. Current story wise, Horde are not the bad guys, and neither are Alliance. Warlocks seem to be the bad guys  B)

Officially, there is no war. But that does not change the fact that you are at war with one another within the game. And current storyline, it is true that there are no "true" bad guys. Still, the Horde has not, as a WHOLE, given me enough reason to trust them to make "good" decisions. The Alliance, as a whole, has in the past, despite all their falters and failures. At worst, I can be a "freelance" Alliance member, choosing my own path rather than following mindless orders that are neither virtuous nor noble. I would find it much harder to do that under the flag of the Horde, mostly because only the Taurens have truly proven to be noble, while the Orcs are still trying to reclaim that for themselves (although that, in itself, is noble), and the Trolls... just seem along for the ride. Undead, as I've said already, have proven their intentions - kill everything and everyone as punishment for their existence and their exilement. Being on the same side as that is a doomed existence from the start, begging for internal strife. The only thing holding them in check is a lack of strong numbers.

Looks and first impressions color your opinion more than lore does. I sympathize a bit for wanting to 'look good', but it is false to think Alliance are the good guys. World PvP-wise, the players make who's good and evil and there are a lot of bullies around on both sides

Precisely. Lore colors my opinion much more than looks, believe me. Perhaps what I have said above will give you a greater understanding to that. I do not hate the Horde, nor do I feel they are necessarily inherently evil. The Orcs, however noble they once were and are trying to become again, are still fighting the old curse, on top of fighting to make a place for themselves in this world. (Truth be told, I would love to try and Orc simply to experience this - it's why I once took my Alliance Rogue right into the heart of Orgrimmar, so that I could see what it's like.) They have not, IMHO, reached that state yet, although I will cheer the day they do. The Tauren are brothers in arms to the Orcs, following a very similar tribal and shamanistic existence. And due to their debt, they will probably forever be their allies. They are not in the least bit evil, in my mind. Despite their strong, warrior-like presence, I don't even see them as very war-mongering - more, I see them as having evolved in a very harsh environment that forced war upon them at all times, and they responded within themselves only so far as to allow survival. Take away the constant threat of extinction, and I think their peoples would take up a far more peaceful way of life, though I doubt they'll ever give up their warriors. More, I think they would focus more on a peaceful existence, becoming even more shamanistic (or druidic). The Trolls have proven themselves, at least in recent centuries, to be little more than warmongering tribes of savages. Once, I believe they held a stronger, better society, but that seems to have vanished aeons ago, long before the Orcs ever set foot on Azeroth. And remember, it is only a single tribe that bands behind the Horde (or is it a small coalition of tribes?). Not nearly all of them banded behind the banner of the Horde, perhaps most notably because of this great splintering of ages past. Still, I don't forsee them banding together, as a whole, anytime in the next century or more. And as for the Undead, as I've said, I see them as the only truly evil race. Though I have no qualms with them breaking free of the chains of the Lich King (indeed, it is this that may actually help to save Azeroth from his sway one day), their very existence IS a threat to all other races, if only because they choose to make it so. In their secret hearts and minds, they are only biding their time until they are strong enough to wipe out all the other races. Were that to change, I suppose they would cease to be the only true evil race left in Azeroth (playable races, mind you), but I don't ever see that happening.

Horde Soul
You've taken notice of the native american quality of Tauren, the noble savagery of the warrior race of Orcs. Trolls? Granted, not much about them at all, but they have a wholeheartedly amusing west-indies accent which makes them on par for all 'witch-doctor' juju fans. Undead led by Sylvannas... These are 'freed' undead, with minds of their own. Is it not better to free those bound by slavery? While they're by no means good in the traditional sense, I see our undead as antiheroes, carving a niche out of an insane world.

A part of me is truly drawn to the Orcs and Tauren, and to a lesser extent the Trolls, but overall I have always found my home more comfortable within the Alliance. That is not to say that I have not played a Horde character, nor that I won't ever, but generally, when I take up a side, I tend to stick to it (in Planetside, I chose the Terran Republic, and never really looked back, even when they made it possible to fight for two factions on the same server). Mayhap when I've had my fill of Alliance, I shall strike out under the flag of the Horde, but for now, I still have far too much to see under my current banner, and far too little time to do both at the same time.

There is one unifying theme among the Horde factions. Freedom is new and precious. Orcs, from demonic bloodlust, Undead from the Scourge and Lich King, Tauren from annihilation on another world. Each faction's freedom is constantly under doubt. The lich king and demons of the twisting nether still loom over the horizon, and Tauren are inexorably tied to the Orcs ability to protect their own. The thirst and protection of newfound freedom resounds greatly as one interacts with Thrall, Cairn and Sylvannas. That feeling of freedom as a displaced people in a new land feels much more enriching than the Alliance who seem to have no great noble goals right now.

You are entirely right here, and I have always felt and agreed with this. You certainly hit the nail on the head, and I completely agree. However, see my thoughts above. There are certain elements (NOT the Horde as a whole; I've never felt that, not since the events of Warcraft III) that give me pause when considering the Horde, and it is that which truly holds me back from them. Believe it or not, my ties to Alliance are not nearly as strong as I would like them, precisely because of how you put it: "...the Alliance who seem to have no great noble goals right now." I guess you could say it's my old, romantic side that keeps me with them, hoping to be one of those who DOES have noble goals, and fights for them, and to restore them to the Alliance as a whole, one small step at a time (although, ultimately, this is up to Blizzard to decide). Believe me, I have my qualms with the Alliance, and so do many of its members, given the early quests found in the Human lands.

I've also become very enamoured with Robert E Howard's original Conan stories, and the disgust toward civilized nations. Horde is a much better option for all you noble barbarians out there who are in love with all things wild.

Then mayhap sometime I will give them another, more serious try in the future. But for now, I haven't the time, sadly.

The belief that Alliance is good is purely aesthetic. Good looking must be good, and parts of the story support it. That first impression is made, and never explored deeper. If I had not taken an unexpected plunge, I too might've settled at just that.  I've leaped into the Horde side and found the world was not so dark from the 'bad' guys. There is a savage beauty in being Orc, and nobility in Tauren when idling through their cities, running to the beat of drums in Orgrimmar, or carried forward by wind flutes in Thunder Bluff.

You chalk me up just as Concilian has, never bothering to read deeper into my thoughts. I have explained them as best I can, but if you cannot delve into them to see how I truly feel, then there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. I do not see the "pretty" races as "good" - quite the opposite, I find the Elves in particular, in ALL their breeds, to be far too haughty and vain to be anything even remotely "noble" or "good", but I have hope that, after WC3's events, the Night Elves will have seen enough to change that (although, again, much as with Humans there are problems within the Night Elves that are evident from the very get-go; perhaps due to all this internal corruption I may be driven to Horde sooner than I would have originally thought starting out in this game, but time will tell). ANd contrary to what you might think, I HAVE taken a plunge into the Horde, on the LL's chosen server, no less. I played for some time, but I just didn't find that "magic". Perhaps here I AM guilty of falling for the pretty things, as the ENVIRONMENTS of Azeroth are one of the biggest things that keep me coming back, and that of the Orcs (Undead I could deal with) is just too drab and desolate to really make me want to stay. The Alliance side has such splendorous beauty in its lands, especially within the Night Elves' home, that the magic from that ALONE is enough to keep me on their side. I've spent almost as much time simply exploring, fishing (not to actually catch anything, but as a mimicry of an old favored pasttime), and just standing around gazing at the scenery as I have actually advancing my main (who, BTW, is only 38 or so - just goes to show you my pace). The Horde lands have their beauty and charm, too, but I find the mystical and magical lands of the Night Elves too alluring to pass up so easily.

If you desire to go beyond first impressions, you'll discover a beauty in being Horde that goes beyond aesthetics and into the soul of the character.

I know this; don't ever think I don't. But my place, my feelings, my gut currently place me under Alliance. I take enjoyment out of ALL the game has to offer, not just bits and pieces. Do not underestimate me in this regard, as you and others have so seemed to have done. My time with the Horde is inevitable, but for now, it is not on the horizon (especially since I have not had an active account for several months now).

For the Horde!
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And for the game.

[Lissa]

Actually a lot of the Forsaken quest lines are about creating new poisons and plagues to essentially kill every living thing.  Seems like the work of the Apothicary Society, but I've got no clue wether thats controled by Sylvanus or not.
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They're either controlled by Sylvanus or by Varimathras. But overall, the Forsaken are as evil as you can get.

As to Warlocks being evil, I'm not sure I agree. Some Warlocks probably went after the power they went after to try and bring about some greater good, it just that the powers they are working with to bring about this greater good aren't good themselves.

edit: And Sylvanus has said in the past that she wants everything dead, so yeah, she probably is controlling the Apothocary Society.

[Kevin]

I figure that when Blood Elves come out I will make one on some realm.  The question is which...
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Well it's easy. If people want PvP Horde - Tichondrius. If you want PvE horde - Terenas. If you want RPPvP Horde - Twisting Nether. If you want RP Pve horde - Cenarion Cirle has a lurker presence but no organization. :)

The largest horde lurker presence still seems to be on Terenas.


On the good and evil of the factions
Now onto other things. I'm a hordie (but you have 3 level 60 alliance toons and only a L56 horde!). Yeah and I couldn't play horde for nearly 4 months due to my condition and the only large lurker population that is able to do end game raiding right now is on Stormrage. So I'm still playing more alliance than horde simply for the social interaction with other human beings that I want to interact with.

I get more drawn into the horde storylines, especially the orc and tauren. The forsaken are full of ambiance but when if you get a chance to see the collectors edition DvD and the devs pretty much say they are only horde because they wanted just two factions it detracts a lot from it. Trolls look pretty cool, but they don't draw me in that much.

The orcs' struggle to establish themselves in this world and still fight off the shackles of their demonic enslavers is a great story and fun to play along in. I get into that. There are some pretty dangerous and nasty factions in the horde still but Thrall is working on them. The horde needs to get rid of the forsaken though. They do that and the trust level goes way up in my book. I still haven't gotten an undead up past the 20's but they just don't feel all that noble to me. It doesn't seem to be just a minority of them either. They still seem too close to the scourge. They might not be mindless but they sure don't seem to be noble or good. :) Heck there are even some quests that undead can't get because the horde quest givers won't talk to them. :) OK there is at least one maybe more.

The tauren seem to be the only race the is trying to really as a group repair damages to the world. The Night Elves just want to get their home fixed and go off on their own so they can destroy the world again (Where did the Naga come from? Crap the night elves did and entire continents were sunk after that, and didn't a group of them try and plant a new world tree against the advice of pretty much everyone and that's caused issues as well my warcraft lore is getting mixed up and the lore itself is pretty fragmented). But there are certain questlines that I won't take with my Tauren because I just can't see a Tauren doing that. I do agree that Tauren are only loyal to undead and trolls because they are part of the horde and the Tauren are loyal to the orcs and Thrall (the story you got if you took an orc orphan around was pretty cool with some of that too). But I just can't see a Tauren after you get some of the story doing some of the things that some of the horde ask. They are just a loyal and noble race and being loyal to the orcs isn't bad. :)

I've always seen more nobility in the orcs and tauren than in the warlike humans (talk a race that will never give up it's warriors. Heck they like them so much that they have holy warriors), the haughty and selfish night elves. The dwarves are isolationists but they aren't a bad peoples. The gnomes just have no regard for much of anything around them, they want to pursue their technology and that's good enough. They blew up their own home! But if you look at what I play, very few humans and night elves. Actually only one night elf that is because of the class restricitons for druids. Only one human and he is a warlock. I do play a lot of gnomes because while they have little regard for much other than the pursuit of knowledge I like that pursuit and I find a fun factor in the little dude kicking ass and gnomes is little. :) I play a lot of dwarves too because they are a pretty stout and noble race though it's clear their primary loyalty is to themselves.

On Variants
Well personally my feeling is that a skilled player with a variant build in this game is still going to be able to do more with that class than the average pubby can with the power build and power gear. The game isn't that hard, it's very forgiving of non optimal groups, even in the 40 man raids. Unless you do something really radical like build a warrior with no rage dump skills maybe like this where you do have some interesting damage skills but you'll have to dump rage in HS or slam (if you aren't getting hit) since this is a build that is geared to pump up your "white" damage and multi target damage (a variant of a mini combat rogue) you can't really hurt your party that much from a build. Even this would still work fine as any other arms/fury warrior for tanking as long as you know what skills do good aggro/rage. But talents don't make that big a difference in this game. Not that you need a lot of player skill either (Blizzard again went for fun factor and items).

Now if you neglect items a lot because of variant play you can gimp yourselve and a group a lot. A paladin in cloth not a bad thing if they are playing healer so you can do that variant, you just lose the extra tanking abilities people expect out of a paladin but well that paladin in cloth should be able to easily main heal you for anything 5 man (yes, anything, strat, scholo, DM though some stuff in West maybe not and I say this knowing that some all cloth sets could give me more stam, int, and spirit than what I have in my plate/mail/leahter/cloth healing set and I have healed 5 mans with him) so if you have a priest or a druid along they can now nuke if they like to make up for the loss of off tanking/low DPS that the "traditional" paladin would have provided.

Since the game is about gear at all levels gear based variants are really the only ones that can severly hurt group play.

Of course I'm saying that from the persepective of knowing that I can pretty much always get one other player to group with that I know is a good player. If you are playing in pubby groups where you are the best or one of the best players then yeah variants being a problem and making the group less optimal could be more of a problem. However if you are playing with other lurkers (and even other avarice members on stormrage) being a variant doesn't seem to be an issue.

I had a beastmaster (no points in marksman until I had 34 in beast) before the OMGHUNTERZRUBARNOW! patch 1.7. I don't think any group that I was with thought I was gimped. Admittedly I didn't have too many pubbies with me and I had to convince them that I knew what to do with my pet. Sure my DPS isn't on par with a marks hunter but my DPS + my pet DPS was as good. With the patch my DPS + pet DPS is generally higher than a marks + pet from what I've seen as well so I've become cookie cutter, oh well. Of course pre patch when I convinced people how good spirit bond and my fast attacking pet was I was able to off tank with the pet tanking and everyone else just being DPS and it worked well. Heck even now in some 5 man's with a warrior a beast master pet tanking is better than a warrior tanking because the pets crazy out of combat regen and that arms warrior in DPS mode means you can move faster than if the warrior was tanking and holding holding aggro. Of course that hunter still needs to know how to hold multiple targets with the pet while still doing their damage.

I've also had a melee hunter before 1.7 and did a few instance runs with her. Since my DPS was better in melee than it was ranged people didn't seem to mind. My melee DPS was also not that much worse than ranged DPS of a young marks hunter (I'm talking Van Cleef and BFD for instances here). I also had deterrance and with monkey aspect up that amount of damage avoidance meant I could work as a tank if need be as well. I still haven't come to grips with the new talents and the melee hunter variant as well.

Regardless the lurker groups are generally very open to variant builds. Of course the true "variant" fun in this game for me is variant groups. My recent move has put a 5 paladin group on hold but I'm still going to do it. The Terenas folks know that we'll 4 man a level appropriate instance with a hunter tank, a shaman primary healer and a mage and warlock for the DPS and what not. Not an ideal group by any means but we get the job done. :) I love that. I still remember the warior, priest, mage, mage 4 mans of Sunken Temple. Good group for all but the dragons really, but you want to learn how to tank multiple mobs you run sunken temple with that combo and hold the two elites while the mages are CC'ing the little dragons. At first we peeled the little ones off so the AoE wasn't hitting the elites. After we got comfortable we starting having full force AoE from 2 mages hitting both elites as well. That instance that we were 4 manning because we didn't want a 60 to cheapen it and there wasn't anyone else in our range when we started going in there who could make our schedule really honed my skills with Gnolack. If I lost aggro on anything, I had a pack of squishies behind me that were not going to last long. So yeah I save sunder for when something is chasing down Sabramage or Littledude or Aleri. :) If that peel was because of AoE or a heal getting aggro on a secondary target I had to get that thing back and not lose the other one that is still getting hammered by two mages and mage single target DPS isn't that week at those levels. :) It's also why I love the charge, thunderclap, now the mages sheep while I'm changing stances, dem shout and piercing howl "pull" approach. Doing that helps make sure that if that sheep breaks early it stays on me and doesn't go back to one of my 3 squishies who have no one else to help them and who's DPS we need because there are only 4 of us. :) But I had a blast with those variant groups.

Personally I think if you want to be a better player you should 4 man an instance or 5 man it with a "sub par" group. If you want to succeed you have let other class skills come to the front. Uldaman with 2 shaman, a warrior and 2 hunters, good practice for the double freeze trap and hunter pulls and pet off tanks. Be a druid healer without any other class that can rez around and you'll get good or you'll get so frustrated that you never play the class again or no one else will play with you. Actaully I think all priests should play a druid in a 5 man without anyone else who can rez or heal around. I think it will make them a lot better priest. :) Oh and people who like to break CC when they shouldn't also need to play a druid as the only healer and rezzer maybe then the value of CC will sink in. :) Of course then you take that druid on a 40 man raid and you get utterly frustrated because all those healing tricks you learned become useless because you waste mana or someone else heals your target. :)

I'm rambling a lot. I'll shut up now. :)

My point, there is plenty of room for variants that your group might love but there is more effort in making sure your variant is accepted. Lurkers seem very accepting of that. People connect to different things and get different things from each faction. I get more from the horde and if we get a big horde presence you know I'll be there (I started the guild on Terenas though I had to leave that post for reasons explained in other older posts afterall). Of course we would have to convice many of our Basin, Carpe Aurum, House Harpell, and Keepers of the Cheese allies to go there with us, otherwise Stormrage will always be one of my major homes because this game is about the people you play it with as well and those people are more heavily on Stormrage.

[Artega]

Sylvanas controls Varimathras, who is in turn her majordomo, handling most "petty" things for her. The Royal Apothecary Society is seeking to make a new plague to kill pretty much everyone and everything on both sides as retribution for their state of undeath. Whether because they want everyone ELSE to be like them, or simply want everyone to die a horrible death because they hate themselves, I'm not real sure about.

The Forsaken are your classic evil undead, albeit with a bit more personality. Coolest race in the game/lore, if you ask me. Just go chat it up with Nathanos for proof of that :)

[Rinnhart]

Even before Deathwing & Onyxia, there's always been fragmentation on a regional, national, and interfaction level. Don't be so naive to think an outside force is responsible for all of it. That storyline's fun, but self-interest and greed are always pushed.

And as it stands, the alliance as a whole is merely struggling to survive. Zone after zone is filled with quest lines furthering basic existence against overwhelming forces.

The Night Elves struggle to fight off the horde invaders and deal with the consequences wrought by the destruction of the world tree and spreading corruption, the dwarves are assaulted on all fronts by trolls, dark irons, and the X factor of the troggs, and the humans, abandoned by Stormwind, wage war against the undead, blackrock orcs, and rampaging brigands, and their minions.

The Orcs, Undead, and Trolls seek only conquest. Perhaps Thrall has a greater good in mind, but he manifests it with the bloody slaughter of those who might oppose him. The undead don't even entertain the possibility of a "greater good" seeking only the destruction of all! And the taurens go along with it all!

Warlocks are evil. I made no denial about that. That said, Thrall likes to keep his enemies under very close observation. That is a practical matter, and you're stereotyping orc warlocks for all orcs.

So, a police state is the answer! Let's keep everyone under close watch- discourage, control, and eliminate the factors that might challenge us! He's a murderous brute and little better than the demon-blooded warlords of the Horde's past!

3) THE FORSAKEN ARE TRYING TO KILL EVERYONE.

Uh no. They don't need to. You watch too many horror movies. That's the Lich king's scourge you're thinking of.

They're far less moral about their work, but they're mainly another form of life--life after death. They have free will, thus a chance to be good or evil. Sylvanna's long term goals and actions have yet to be written.
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By level 6, as a Forsaken character, you're already helping further the developement of "A New Plague" - so yeah, I'm right here, without any fanciful embelishments.

The Forsaken are as much a blight upon Azeroth as the Scourge itself.

[220683]

Green eyes, amusing.

Magazine Scan Link
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A new territory:
Outlands

A new istance:
Medivh Tower in the Deadwind Pass
Caverns of time in Tanaris

Lvl cap raised to 70

New profession:
Jewelcrafting, you can craft gems to apply to weapon and armor to add new effect.

Two new race:
Blood Elves for horde
Alliance (still unknown)

Atmospheric effect:
Rain, snow.

Release:
after may 2006
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Blood elf/ scenery pics:

http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...leindigo8am.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...leshield7tv.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...rontview2in.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...elfsword2vj.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...ingstaff8dv.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...owerview8ye.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...rontview2co.jpg

New instance perhaps: Karazhan??

http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...karazhan3ki.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...archways1sc.jpg

Pure scenery pics of what image files call "Sunstrider Isle":

http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...insunset3cx.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...interior6tg.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...stairway7ii.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...uildings5al.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...ehorizon6ej.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...sletower8hx.jpg

Portal at "The Black Morass" (Orc world?):

http://home.comcast.net/~moxie_eggs/expans...ckmorass4dp.jpg

[Drasca]

Dangit, where are my undead propogandist writers when I need them! Undead do apothecaries do like to kill people, and the Undercity is just the coolest ever. Yes, there is no doubt of the races Undead is the most predisposed to evil. However their fate is still yet written and Horde mainly gets UD forsaken as a race because they're so darn cool.

As to Warlocks being evil, I'm not sure I agree. 
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I suppose tongue-in-cheek wasn't super clear. I'm not terribly serious about that, but Warlocks do get cast in the stereotypical "bad guy" role. Some tripe about lust for power, and corruption by demon, devil and diabolic forces. Warlocks are the universal 'bad guy' tool in Novelizations, Blizzard Lore, and everyhere I look (except possibly for tv series about female witches, Bewitched, Sabrina the teenage witch, and Charmed).

How they an epic level of power under WoW rules is beyond me. Sure we have a small field army, but where's Medivh, Gul'dan, and Nerzhul level of power? Additionally, all of them were slain. Medivh, band of humans led by Lothar in his own tower (was tough in WCI with no ability to heal). Gul'dan? Raised tomb of Sargerras, and got slain by demons within. Ner'zhul? Disappointed by this one, ventured forth to Draenor and summoned portals that ruptured that red world, and made a daring move to go conquer other worlds--but met demons of the twisting nether that consumed his body.

So, how does a warlock ever become king? HMM? Never seems to be one in power, or explain how he grabbed that power until writers need one. Hey let's make Medivh open the Dark Portal, and kickstart WCI. Guldan? Nerzhul? Let's have them communicate with Medivh and whisper secrets with demons. Kill them off when we're done with them. Oh! Sure! Their bones and spirits are now artifacts of power.

Warlocks. Apparantly, we're just evil. Where's my boomstick? Do I get to eat children at all hallow's eve? Have we modernized to vacuum cleaners?

Where's the actual evil, and the power! *&$(*#!!

[Arnulf]

Your complaining that your gear won't be the "the best" anymore?  What do you want Blizzard to do: forever limit players to level 60 (an arbitrary and unsatisfying number if you ask me) and never create any new items?  That makes absolutly no sense.

It's not like they are just going to raise the cap and leave characters there with no way to compete against it.  New, even better, items will be created for characters above 60, just like it happenes every other time any cap was raised in any game. 

I'm not complaining that it won't be the best, but that it will be almost useless. Why should I put time and effort in acquiring those when facing enemies that are 10 levels above me?

There are other sets beside the Lightforge and the Lawbringer sets one can get for paladins earlier in the game. Scarlet Crusade has one of those. But noone on my server for example uses this set. That is because a set that is designed for a 40ish character takes way too much time and effort for collecting when it will be obsolete as soon as the character turns 54 or so. Which is a shame.

Now you can get the Lightforge set with some persistence and patience just by visiting the high-end instances. But the only place to get the Lawbringer set is by organising 40 people and raiding Molten Core. Which after the expansion came will be just a pass-through instance. Noone will have the incentive to raid Molten Core on a regular basis after the expansion. Not to mention the now high end instances like Blackrock Spire, Scholomance, Stratholme.

I just don't see the point in saying that the addition of *new* content and *different* things to do would push you to want to leave the game.
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I'm not against new places, new items, and new races. Leaving the Blood Elf thing aside which just feels wrong to me. I think that it is a cheap way out for Blizzard just to raise the level cap with 10 more levels. I know, I know, they're not renowned for innovation. Blizzard usually takes concepts that are tried and true and refines them and combines them in such a way that the resulting games are addictive and still special in some way.

The talent system as it is now will be completely off the rocker. I don't claim that it is balanced now. Which it is certainly not. But as it is now you cannot just fill up one of the talent trees and then put 10 more points into another tree. I have no idea what they will do about this.

Now it is clear to me. Blizzard is going the same route like SOE and others. Putting out expansion after expansion which will raise the level cap just another 10 levels each year. People who refuse to buy the expansion will be locked out and stop playing because they're not in a competitive position with people who bought the expansion.

Whereas the expansions for Starcraft and Diablo II felt like completing the original game this just feels like cashing in on their customers.

-Arnulf

[Quark]

I'm glad you've already decided on how bad this expansion is going to be before Blizzard has even officially released a single detail about it. Let alone months before you'll ever get to play it.

[Rinnhart]

It's hard to balance world-destroying powers.

...And I think Medivh was a mage.

[Arnulf]

I'm glad you've already decided on how bad this expansion is going to be before Blizzard has even officially released a single detail about it.  Let alone months before you'll ever get to play it.
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That's just another thing isn't it? This "exclusive preview" ist not official, right? Does "official" mean "confirmed to be in there"? Previews and leaked patch notes are unofficial, meaning there's a 50:50 chance that it will be completely different on release?

If so then they should just stop giving out these information tidbits and concentrate on more important things.

On the other hand if the sole purpose of this information leakage is to gauge the public reaction, well, I gave mine.

There's still hope.

-Arnulf

[kandrathe]

That's just another thing isn't it? This "exclusive preview" ist not official, right? Does "official" mean "confirmed to be in there"? Previews and leaked patch notes are unofficial, meaning there's a 50:50 chance that it will be completely different on release?

If so then they should just stop giving out these information tidbits and concentrate on more important things.

On the other hand if the sole purpose of this information leakage is to gauge the public reaction, well, I gave mine.

There's still hope.

-Arnulf
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50/50 Nah.

This is another well poorly crafted fantasy by someone, further distorted by piss poor journalism. There is so much fishing and reaching by the original writer that he's bound to stumble upon something true. Yes, there will be more instances. Yes, Hyjal will be completed someday. Yes, Deadwind pass might evolve further. There might even be additional playable races or expansion of professions. If you toss enough spit balls you are bound to hit something.

[Rinnhart]

I'm glad you've already decided on how bad this expansion is going to be before Blizzard has even officially released a single detail about it.  Let alone months before you'll ever get to play it.
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Good developers can do horrible things to MMO's with expansions.

[Pesmerga]

Good developers can do horrible things to MMO's with expansions.
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'Can' being the operative word there. Seeing as how we have no definites yet, we can't say one way or the other. Just a bunch of guessing that, in the end, leads us nowhere.

:D

Heh, but if they do add Blood Elves to the horde, I think I might actually be able to convice the wife to do a horde duo with me. :D

[Darian]

If so then they should just stop giving out these information tidbits and concentrate on more important things.
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...because naturally the marketing department could be spending their time fixing bugs and balance issues.

Seriously, what "more important things" would you have the marketing guys do? Their job is to sell upcoming product.

[Arnulf]

Seriously, what "more important things" would you have the marketing guys do?  Their job is to sell upcoming product.
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For once marketing should market things which are there and working.

And not market stuff that's still up in the air...

-Arnulf

[Swiss Mercenary]

I'm glad you've already decided on how bad this expansion is going to be before Blizzard has even officially released a single detail about it.  Let alone months before you'll ever get to play it.
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Well, to be honest, their track record with the game to this date does speak volumes about the New And Improved WoW Blizzard.

[savaughn]

For once marketing should market things which are there and working.

And not market stuff that's still up in the air...

-Arnulf
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Good point. Clearly the guys who marketted this product don't know what they're doing. I mean, granted they did turn WoW into the single most lucrative video game of all time, but that doesn't mean they know what they're doing. Just because they're more wildly successful than most marketing departments can ever dream of -- regardless of that, they should stop what they're doing and start taking advice from us.

:blink:

[Guest]

Past success doesnt justify stupidity.

The game isnt going to tank because of a marketing screw up obviously. But that doesnt mean it wasnt a screw up.