Summoner Question

[TheKingofKewl]

Hi i'm making a summoner based off a guide I found off of GameFaqs, but I have a question of course.

The guide seems to want me to focus on Raise Skeletons and SKeleton Mastery (max).
He's also saying corpe explosion is worth maxing and to put some in revive and lower resists and life tap and decrepify (10 in curses spread out) and amplify damage. Summon resist

But unless I leave a hirling in new games by myself I would be vulnerable till I get skeletons raised. Would Fire golem be a good substitute? if so how many points and how do I re-arrange this?

thanks for any tips

[Wyrm]

Hi i'm making a summoner based off a guide I found off of GameFaqs, but I have a question of course.

The guide seems to want me to focus on Raise Skeletons and SKeleton Mastery (max).
He's also saying corpe explosion is worth maxing and to put some in revive and lower resists and life tap and decrepify (10 in curses spread out) and amplify damage.  Summon resist

But unless I leave a hirling in new games by myself I would be vulnerable till I get skeletons raised. Would Fire golem be a good substitute? if so how many points and how do I re-arrange this?

thanks for any tips
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GameFAQs is generally not a good place to go for D2 information. Use the search function here or at the Amazon Basin instead to find what you need.

Ignore Corpse Explosion and Lower Resist, those are a waste of skill points for a summoner. You only need 3 Curses: Dim Vision, Decrepify (only for uniques/superuniques/act bosses), and Amplify Damage.

Grab an Act 2 merc, auras benefit skeletons. Thorns is the safest way to go, but Blessed Aim and Might will push damage up preatty high.

The only golem you need is a Clay Golem for the chill effect. If for some reason you want to make an elementally invulnerable Iron Golem, you can do that with a Paladin shield socketed with 4 Perfect Diamonds. Clay is still better for the slow and recastability, imo.

Your henchman, should you actually keep his level somewhere near yours, will be more than able to get that first kill for skeletons in Nightmare and Hell should you actually give him a decent weapon. Just go into the Blood Moor and/or Cold Plains.

[TheKingofKewl]

alright sounds like good advice. I will take the clay golem and scratch the Explosion stuff.

GameFAQs is generally not a good place to go for D2 information.  Use the search function here or at the Amazon Basin instead to find what you need.

Ignore Corpse Explosion and Lower Resist, those are a waste of skill points for a summoner.  You only need 3 Curses: Dim Vision, Decrepify (only for uniques/superuniques/act bosses), and Amplify Damage.

Grab an Act 2 merc, auras benefit skeletons.  Thorns is the safest way to go, but Blessed Aim and Might will push damage up preatty high.

The only golem you need is a Clay Golem for the chill effect.  If for some reason you want to make an elementally invulnerable Iron Golem, you can do that with a Paladin shield socketed with 4 Perfect Diamonds.  Clay is still better for the slow and recastability, imo.

Your henchman, should you actually keep his level somewhere near yours, will be more than able to get that first kill for skeletons in Nightmare and Hell should you actually give him a decent weapon.  Just go into the Blood Moor and/or Cold Plains.
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[Assur]

Hi

You should have one 1 point in Corpse Explosion: It's a fun skill, it speeds up killing monsters and the fire component works against Physical Immunes. Amp Dam breaks Physical Immunes but does not work against monsters that are Physical Immune and have Stoneskin too. I usually start out with an Act2 Prayer merc and switch him out for a n Act2 Might Merc in NM.

According to the experts at the AB Necro forum the best way to put your points, is to put 1 point in SM for every three points you put in RS. In NM and Hell your Merc should have some elemental damage for PI/Stoneskin monsters (for that reason some Summoners use a fire Rogue with Edge)

I don't use Dim Vision, but I'm a minority B) , some people use a Fire Golem because it has a big Aggro Range and can be cast on top of ranged monsters, I also use Terror (pre-req for Decrepify) to hit ranged mosters and when I'm in Stygian Doll country. If you play HC one point in Bonearmour can be useful.

Hope that was helpful

[TheKingofKewl]

Hi
wooo i forgot about Physical immunes. Won't they pose a problem if I am up against alot o fthem at once?


thanks


You should have one 1 point in Corpse Explosion: It's a fun skill, it speeds up killing monsters and the fire component works against Physical Immunes. Amp Dam breaks Physical Immunes but does not work against monsters that are Physical Immune and have Stoneskin too.  I usually start out with an Act2 Prayer merc and switch him out for a n Act2 Might Merc in NM.

According to the experts at the AB Necro forum the best way to put your points, is to put 1 point in SM for every three points you put in RS. In NM and Hell your Merc should  have some elemental damage for PI/Stoneskin monsters (for that reason some Summoners use a fire Rogue with Edge)

I don't use Dim Vision, but I'm a minority B) , some people use a Fire Golem because it has a big Aggro Range and can be cast on top of ranged monsters, I also use Terror (pre-req for Decrepify) to hit ranged mosters and when I'm in Stygian Doll country. If you play HC one point in Bonearmour can be useful.

Hope that was helpful
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[DeeBye]

GameFAQs is generally not a good place to go for D2 information.[right][snapback]95921[/snapback][/right]

I agree.

Ignore Corpse Explosion and Lower Resist, those are a waste of skill points for a summoner.
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I disagree on the Corpse Explosion thing.

Maxed Corpse Explosion is a huge benefit to a summoning necro. Nothing in the Necromancer arsenal kills as many baddies as quickly in as wide of a radius as Corpse Explosion. You can clear whole rooms full of enemies with a few clicks, no matter the player count.

For a summoning Necro in later difficulties, the skeletons are there to shield you from damage and produce a corpse or two. After that, it's BLAM BLAM BLAM! Corpse Explosion will decimate everything on the screen unless they are physical+fire immune.

[Wyrm]

I agree.

Humorously enough, I actually put up 2 of the guides that are there. One of which I would actually admit to writing if it didn't give away my contributor name and make me acknowledge the other.

For a summoning Necro in later difficulties, the skeletons are there to shield you from damage and produce a corpse or two.  After that, it's BLAM BLAM BLAM!  Corpse Explosion will decimate everything on the screen unless they are physical+fire immune.
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I have to disagree there. My HC summoner necro hardly ever used CE at all, and it was the one doing Baal runs. Instead I had a Blessed Aim merc (so the skels could actually hit - there was a thread somewhere that averaged out the damage to be higher than Might would produce because of the way it interacted with the skills) and maxed Dim Vision to negate ranged attacks. The skeletons pretty much just trampled over everything.

Corpse Explosion is a really fun skill, but in order to actually use it, I'd have had to drop other skills and stat points (normally I don't put very many points into energy so I can have the points for vitality).

[DeeBye]

Yeah, but all things being equal a summoner with max CE will kill a LOT faster than a summoner without.

[Wyrm]

Yeah, but all things being equal a summoner with max CE will kill a LOT faster than a summoner without.
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All things being equal, a hammerdin with maxed Concentration will kill a lot faster than one without. It's not entirely needed since the build is pretty overpowered on its own with just the synergies, but the aura makes monsters go splat a lot faster.

My point wasn't that Corpse Explosion couldn't kill anything. Far from it. CE is one of the most damaging skills in the game, but it's not needed to make a good summoner. Personally, I would rather spend the 20 points that would be needed to max out CE in Skeletal Mage. It makes a lot more meat shields, cold and poison ones help with crowd and regen control, and you won't have to worry about immunities getting in the way (granted, their individual damage isn't that great, but 15+ all firing at the same time adds up pretty nice).

[DeeBye]

My point wasn't that Corpse Explosion couldn't kill anything.  Far from it.  CE is one of the most damaging skills in the game, but it's not needed to make a good summoner.
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But what is a "good summoner" in your estimation then? Since CE is one of the most damaging skills in the game, why is it a waste of 20 skill points? You are almost contradicting yourself, or I am just not understanding you correctly.

Of course CE isn't really needed, but then again no skill in Diablo 2 is ever really needed. It just helps. I could make a fairly effective Zealer without maxing Fanaticism, but he'd be crippled. I don't think anyone's talking variants here.

No matter how you argue against it, a summoner with maxed CE will be a heck of a lot more effective than one without. He kills faster, and is often safer because the huge blast radius kills things that aren't even in range to be a threat.

Sure, maxing Mages instead of CE works just fine, but maxing CE works better.

[whathuh]

wooo i forgot about Physical immunes. Won't they pose a problem if I am up against alot o fthem at once?


thanks

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You don't have to kill everything.

[DeeBye]

You don't have to kill everything.
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With Amp Damage, no summoner is ever going to up against more than one unbreakable Phys Immune enemy at a time. CE, a couple of Skeleton Mages, or a Mercenary with an elemental damage weapon will eventually beat him down. Clay Golem and Decrepify slows them to crawl so they are not a threat. Then it's just a matter of time.

I personally hate leaving enemies in peace. Everything must be destroyed :shuriken:

[Wyrm]

But what is a "good summoner" in your estimation then?  Since CE is one of the most damaging skills in the game, why is it a waste of 20 skill points?  You are almost contradicting yourself, or I am just not understanding you correctly.
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Well, if you're using CE as your primary attack, then you're not really a summoner, you're a CE necro with minions. When I play a summoner, I let the minions do the work and I sit back and watch. I've usually got around 40 minions at any given time (mercenary included), so why not let them do the work? If I'm killing everything with CE, then all I need is a merc, an Iron Golem, and a couple curses to generate the first couple corpses.

[ShadowHM]

Well, if you're using CE as your primary attack, then you're not really a summoner, you're a CE necro with minions.  When I play a summoner, I let the minions do the work and I sit back and watch.  I've usually got around 40 minions at any given time (mercenary included), so why not let them do the work?  If I'm killing everything with CE, then all I need is a merc, an Iron Golem, and a couple curses to generate the first couple corpses.
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I have to agree with Wyrm on one part of this: it is about what you call your build. I would not argue with someone who wanted to use summons and corpse explosion about whether or not to do it; I would just quibble over the name. :P

I went through a similar discussion some time back about Assassin Snipers. If they are using Death Sentry, then they just ain't snipers anymore, are they? Now it may make perfect sense to build a character that creates the first few bodies with their sharp-shooting, and then blows up the bodies in succession afterwards to get the rest of the baddies. I just didn't like them calling themselves snipers when they were really demolition experts. ;)

[DeeBye]

Well, if you're using CE as your primary attack, then you're not really a summoner, you're a CE necro with minions.
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That's absolutely true and I can't argue against it, other than to say that a summoner using CE as a main killing skill will be relying on the minions to kill for the the first huge chunk of his progress. It's not until late Nightmare/early Hell that CE really becomes the main skill. Before that, he's almost pure summoner.

I guess this debate is all just about personal definitions of a specific build. I say that a Necro using CE is still a summoning Necro. You say that he isn't. That's fine. We understand each other as far as the mechanics go, so it's really just a symantics thing.

I have to agree with Wyrm on one part of this:  it is about what you call your build.    I would not argue with someone who wanted to use summons and corpse explosion about whether or not to do it; I would just quibble over the name.  :P
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That's it exactly. We are just quibbling over the name, and I bet that we have totally confusing the OP.

[the Langolier]

I'll give you some of what I have based on my time playing Single Player necros. I was just an average character; never went for uber builds to fly through hell, and never really cared about maximizing my killing rate, meaning: I had no act 2 merc with aura, no +1,000,000 to all skills (or is +1.5 million about average now?). Oh, FYI the last time I played was 1.09, and by that time it was sparce.

My strategy was just to get a nice group of my summons and a nice group of enemies together and grab some popcorn. My role was simply to avoid getting targeted by monsters. At this time, I was using revives because skeletons sucked and reviving is fun. I have heard its very much different in 1.10 so I'll leave that up to you. Revives are very entertaining to me though. It is very neat to be able to raise different enemy types. There's also the fact that an enemy v. it's own revived = even strength, except your minion has more life, does more damage and benefits from your curses = revive is winner. But there are a few things important to this play style:

1) Curses: really no reason not to get some. I would pick one main curse for battle, then maybe a few 1-5 point curses like life tap or attract. I rarely used dim vision, because well, I liked to watch a battle! Remember your soldiers are crowd control.

2) Golems: suck. As does blizzard. I think it is just GREAT that a druid bear never costs above 25 mana, but a maxed fire golem is like 400 per cast. Furthermore, a bear does MUCH more damage with the same number of skill points invested. I used a skill intensive and expensive fire golem - the poor thing could hardly kill even just one enemy by itself in Hell. If at all. But all is not lost! They will live a long time and the golem mastery adds a healthy 20% life each level. I recommend putting 75% of your golem points into the mastery, and less than ten into your golem of choice. I like iron golem. It really doesn't matter because all a golem really is is just one more icon at the top of your screen. (BTW, I would never cast an iron golem from a shield socketed with FOUR perfect diamonds. When the golem dies, you don't get the item back. I don't care how much that POS golem can resist, he still can't kill #$%&!)

3) Other summons: you are the general, you pick your soldiers. 1.09 and back, skeletons were basically worthless, as were mages. Revives were fun and worked. 40 soldiers is really not necessary. I went more for quality than quantity. I pretty much matched the average mob I might come across, so normally I had 10-15.

4) Bone skills - Get CE. I really didnt find any other skills here usefull. When you are fighting a mob, sometimes you will . A couple CE's can really turn the tide to your favor. It just fits perfectly. Your minions keep enemies in one spot, there's bodies all over around the front lines, and it packs a punch. I put 5 points into this skill. Can you honestly not afford 5 points?

Sure you get hit regularly, but enemies should never be swarming or chasing you. If they are you need to manage the summons better. For that reason, I didn't find vitality or control skills like terror all that usefull. The soldiers do all the work, but you will be busy avoiding the enemy or two that may slip through, refreshing your curse and minions, exploding large corpses, and picking up treasures.

Have fun, and don't take it too seriously, after all, generals aren't power gamer players.

[channel1]

...
Grab an Act 2 merc, auras benefit skeletons.  Thorns is the safest way to go, but Blessed Aim and Might will push damage up preatty high....

...Your henchman, should you actually keep his level somewhere near yours, will be more than able to get that first kill for skeletons in Nightmare and Hell should you actually give him a decent weapon.  Just go into the Blood Moor and/or Cold Plains...
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Just a couple of quick notes:
An Act 1 merc with Runeword Edge bow gives pretty high-level Thorns aura, and has the extra benefits of being a good range attacker that doesn't jam up against monsters. Also, you can always borrow her bow for gambling.

Once you hit Act 5, you don't need to worry about how to get your first kills for skeletons. There will be some corpses just outside the gates of Harrogath, and if Anya's portal to Nihlathak's Temple is open you can also use the corpses there, if you use them before they reanimate.

-rcv-
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