How to beat me in PvP

[RTM]

What I've always wondered with regards to Warlock DoT's is which class can dispell which spell.

Mages: Curses
Priests: Immolate/Corruption
Druids: ?
Paladins: ?

Does Siphon Life fall into the Immolate/Corruption category? Also, I've heard that Soul Link is dispellable- true? How about the buff you get from Demonic Sacrifice?

Also, a tip for you Hunters/Warlocks/Warriors/Bear Druids out there: in group PvP your taunt spells will pull a pet off a squishy. :)

EDIT: just wanted to add that I would love to do some dueling sometime Bolty, now that I'm of age. :) My dueling experience has consisted of random duels in Goldshire pre-lvl10 and now that I'm doing some BG's more the PvP experience will come in handy.

[Watto44]

Druids: ?
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Druids: Curses.

Off the top of my head there are at least two warlock curses: agony and the resist lowering/damage boosing curse. There might be another one, but my general strategy against a warlock involves a lot of running away and a very small amount of looking at what's killing me. :blush:

[Arnulf]

Mages: Curses
Priests: Immolate/Corruption
Druids: ?
Paladins: ?
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Mages: curses
Priests: diseases, magic (also dispels magic buffs on enemies)
Druids: curses, poisons
Paladins: magic, poisons, diseases
Shamans: poisons and...

is Corruption a disease or magic?

-Arnulf

edit: forgot my bane, the Shaman :)

[Rudishoes]

Time to finally post again after three years. :blink:

Don't forget diseases on the Shamans.

Back on topic, Druid vs. Holy Priest is kind of like watching someone beat themselves to death with their own shoe. A druid can simply shift and wear down the priest over time, as has been stated. If you're spec'd feral, cat form hurts. Your white dmage functions like a really nasty, non-dispellable DoT. Tossing a 5 point rip and a shred in there makes any priest really start bugging out at how fast their life is draining. If you're slick with the mouse, you can get behind them for a few shreds to burn through their sheilds, or just help burn their mana faster. As long as you keep tabs on when the priest has last feared, you can heal interuption free. Just don't let yourself have less health than a mindblast can melt through.

If you think that's sadistic and mean, try fighting a warrior as a druid. It's actually like watching someone beat themself to death with their own shoe.

-Rudi

[Artega]

Problem is, if you screw up, the Warrior will kill you five times before you hit the ground :)

[NotSoDarklord]

Yes, holy priests are just about god when it comes to duels/those rare times in pvp when you find someone alone with no one around for miles.

Most classes flat out have no chance, infact the only classes that do stand a chance against a properly geared/played holy priest in my opinion are...

Sword rogue. Adrenaline rush hurts, if they have their pvp trinket or WoTF to break fear while they ss at 2x the normal rate it will definitely be close. Most rogues just don't have a chance due to the stun resist talent and the talent that gives uninterrupted heals after a crit. "Heda" one of stormrage's best dueling priests let me beat on him with my rogue (very well geared). Even with no fears I still couldn't outdps his heals. (Combat specced dagger rogue aka. max damage spec in game currently)

Warriors. This is kind of a crap shoot, if the fears are dealt with then things certainly get interesting. I like arms/fury better than MS for this matchup, most priests just wait for ms timer to get low then fear/heal, arms fury is just painful all around.

Shaman. Yeah

Very well geared hunter. Shadowmeld aimed shot to start off the duel can really hurt, though most priests are smart enough to watch where the hunter SMs and just fear the area, all the same, with MS/arcane shot hunters can really pump out some huge damage fast.

[Rudishoes]

Yes, holy priests are just about god when it comes to duels/those rare times in pvp when you find someone alone with no one around for miles. [right][snapback]99287[/snapback][/right]

I disagree. If the other class can't heal, I'll buy it, but with healing classes it's who can save more mana while doing more damage. Feral Druids rock here (I'm a little biased :P).

What's with the Shaman hate? The trick here is to get rid of their mana pool and any helpful totems they've got up. A whack from your staff/dagger takes care of most totems too. Priests should have a particularly easy job with this, IMO. Their heals are extremely innefficent, so if you get a little agressive with mana burn and mind blast, they should start burning their mana pool fast.

-Rudi

[Watto44]

What's with the Shaman hate? The trick here is to get rid of their mana pool and any helpful totems they've got up. A whack from your staff/dagger takes care of most totems too. Priests should have a particularly easy job with this, IMO. Their heals are extremely innefficent, so if you get a little agressive with mana burn and mind blast, they should start burning their mana pool fast.
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I counter your argument with purge and a windfury proc. :)

[Lissa]

What's with the Shaman hate? The trick here is to get rid of their mana pool and any helpful totems they've got up. A whack from your staff/dagger takes care of most totems too. Priests should have a particularly easy job with this, IMO. Their heals are extremely innefficent, so if you get a little agressive with mana burn and mind blast, they should start burning their mana pool fast.

-Rudi
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3 words

Earthshock and Melee

nuff said...

[Drasca]

"ooo, I should use Aimed Shot for the mad crits".

In PvP, standing in place for a hunter = dead.
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On the second statement, I agree completely. On the first, I've dueled good hunters. They can freeze trap me, or FD/FT almost instantly if I'm near, and then run to max distance for an aimed shot. They know when to keep the pet on attack or on defense to utlize this.

Lissa's right about the felhunter. Succubus is really only great if you're Demon specced, possibly with points in Improved LoP (no talents to boost felhunter signifigantly), then she does sickening damage solo.

The felhunter will, however, eat up your dots, eat your shields (and other costly Priest buffs), interrupt your spell casts, SILENCE (New locks have it so easy with this silence that finally comes), and here's a secret: felhunters share their resistence with the warlock if he's Soul Link specced. Resistence is a lot less useful, but soul linkers are still positively demonic when faced against magic damage.

In patches long ago, a warlock lived or died on how well he could manage his pet, gauge his distance, and times his fears (the one real interrupt). It was even possible to beat a priest with an Imp, given certain circumstances. With the new toys, felhunter silence and death coil fear, it has become easier, but timing is still everything.

Priests/Druids/Cleanse: I hate your dispel/cleanse, its always cost too low (50 mana), always too easy to cast (instants) and thus became the ONE RIGHT ANSWER against everything. At one point, you could dispel enslave and soul link easily. These should not be considered dispellable magic (I think SL is currently a dispellable aura on the pet -- I am not sure). I'm glad your mana cost for these spells were upped.

RTM, Siphon is magic, thus dispellable.

Warriors, never use last stand in front of a warlock. He'll fear and chomp you. Not that you usually need it, unless ganked with 2 shadowbolts from 30 yards away-- certain locks hunt certain hated warriors in open PvP areas and their healbots in plate.

[lfd]

Priests/Druids/Cleanse: I hate your dispel/cleanse, its always cost too low (50 mana), always too easy to cast (instants) and thus became the ONE RIGHT ANSWER against everything. At one point, you could dispel enslave and soul link easily. These should not be considered dispellable magic (I think SL is currently a dispellable aura on the pet -- I am not sure). I'm glad your mana cost for these spells were upped.[right][snapback]99330[/snapback][/right]

Quadrupled. And once again it's a typically asinine Blizzard solution to the wrong problem, and yet another priest nerf that hurts PvE for the sake of catering to the whiney-ass PvPers. :)

[MongoJerry]

Warriors.  This is kind of a crap shoot, if the fears are dealt with then things certainly get interesting.  I like arms/fury better than MS for this matchup, most priests just wait for ms timer to get low then fear/heal, arms fury is just painful all around.

If you're playing against epic'd out warrior, there is no crap shoot against a holy priest. Charge, hamstring, berserker rage, mortal strike (-50% healing effects as well as damage) and chop away until dead. If the warrior's smart, he or she will even pummel an attempted heal for bonus points. Typically, the holy priest is dead in under eight seconds with no recourse. It doesn't take skill to do this. A warrior can destroy a holy priest so fast, it's not even funny and the warrior will take almost no damage in the fight.

This is the reason I switched to full shadow priest spec a couple months ago. I got plain tired of dying to every stink'n MS warrior who came my way. At least now, it's a fight. If they make it in the next patch so that holy priests actually stand a chance against warriors, I'd switch back to holy/disc.

You're right in your equipment build, though. You want lots of stamina and +armor helps a lot, too.

Regarding fighting warlocks, a warlock with a succubus is a joke. It's the ones with felhunters out that you want to worry about. They eat up your buffs, debuff the warlock (i.e. remove SW:Pain), and can do all kinds of stuff to mess you up.

[lemekim]

Regarding fighting warlocks, a warlock with a succubus is a joke.  It's the ones with felhunters out that you want to worry about.  They eat up your buffs, debuff the warlock (i.e. remove SW:Pain), and can do all kinds of stuff to mess you up.
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I'd have to disagree. But this really only concerns warlocks that have really good epic gear, specifically the Zul'Gurub and MC trinkets, and spec for all out shadow damage (SM/Ruin).

Then a duel becomes pretty simple. Seduce, Curse of Shadow, Fear (while still under seduce), activate trinkets, Shadowbolt for 1-3k while re-applying seduce, Shadowbolt again, Deathcoil, Shadowbolt, Shadowburn, all the while the opponent is essentially helpless.

[Drasca]

Regarding fighting warlocks, a warlock with a succubus is a joke. It's the ones with felhunters out that you want to worry about. They eat up your buffs, debuff the warlock (i.e. remove SW:Pain), and can do all kinds of stuff to mess you up.

[Demonic] Mukbar nu elzab [/Demonic] yes!

Seduce, Curse of Shadow, Fear (while still under seduce), activate trinkets, Shadowbolt for 1-3k while re-applying seduce, Shadowbolt again, Deathcoil, Shadowbolt, Shadowburn, all the while the opponent is essentially helpless.
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Waste a fear. Bah, the fear would only last 2 seconds. You wouldn't have time to SB, and you're wasting DC/SB already. Besides, that isn't enough finishing damage. 2 shadowbolts is only 2-3k damage tops, from enough. DC/SB is another 1-2k, but that only gets to the 4k health minimum everyone has. The opponent is far from helpess at this point, because you've wasted charm and fear, and they've broken out of both.

That's an extremely weak battle 'strategy' that won't work against anyone but newbies in greens and blues who can't break out of &^#$ and wastes the warlock's shards and tricks.

Heck, you might as well shadowburn then charm, run away and shadowbolt from a distance, DC when they're up close, and SBurn again.

Then again, maybe the PvP'ers don't know what they're talking about. You know, when charm fails, when fear's broken out of, when that's not enough crunch damage even with over 300 +damage equipment and enough epic gear to make others drool.

Succubi have their many uses, but when charm is shadow resist based and every priest around has a cheap 10 minute shadow resist buff, an shield buff that sucks up damage every 30 seconds, charm and fear being on the same miniscule impossibly slow timer, and flash heals faster and more powerful than not, charms and shadowbolts are not the smartest option.

Quadrupled. And once again it's a typically asinine Blizzard solution to the wrong problem, and yet another priest nerf that hurts PvE for the sake of catering to the whiney-ass PvPers. 

Pffft. Dispel addict. It was too easy for PvE too, and you know you had it easy. Warlocks were used to their fear mana cost increased (among other nerfs) far before dispels were upped. Crack-monkey forbid having to to give consideration about the magic hot button for panacea juice.

[MongoJerry]

Then a duel becomes pretty simple. Seduce, Curse of Shadow, Fear (while still under seduce), activate trinkets, Shadowbolt for 1-3k while re-applying seduce, Shadowbolt again, Deathcoil, Shadowbolt, Shadowburn, all the while the opponent is essentially helpless.

Will of the Forsaken, SW:Pain, Devouring Plague, Silence, Mind Blast, Mind Flay, trinket out of fear, Shield, Mind Flay until the warlock's dead. (If the warlock stupidly put magic dots on me, dispell them).

[Rudishoes]

I counter your argument with purge and a windfury proc. :)
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3 words

Earthshock and Melee

nuff said...
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Fear and kite. Earthbind (which you guys havn't thrown out yet) has a small radius and a 15 sec cooldown. One Psychic scream should be enough time to get away, and then kite. Keep SW:P up and run around with your shield up. Let SW:P do its thing, and heal while the Shammy does.

I'm not saying its easy, but if you're good, even Shaman have to start thinking about what they're doing. :P

[Watto44]

Fear and kite. Earthbind (which you guys havn't thrown out yet) has a small radius and a 15 sec cooldown. One Psychic scream should be enough time to get away, and then kite. Keep SW:P up and run around with your shield up. Let SW:P do its thing, and heal while the Shammy does.

I'm not saying its easy, but if you're good, even Shaman have to start thinking about what they're doing.  :P
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Hmm, I really can't see a shaman fighting a priest without three things going on. 1) Purge. Kills the priest's shield and stam buff. 2) Grounding totem. Eats a direct damage spell. But the kicker is 3) Tremor Totem. While it's far from a sure bet, with a bit of management tremor totem drastically reduces a priest's ability to fear kite a shammy.

[lemekim]

Will of the Forsaken, SW:Pain, Devouring Plague, Silence, Mind Blast, Mind Flay, trinket out of fear, Shield, Mind Flay until the warlock's dead. (If the warlock stupidly put magic dots on me, dispell them).
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Because we all know that every race has Will of the Forsaken =)

Given that there are 4 other races available to priests, I'd say that seduce will work just fine on any of them. So a warlock with a succubus is not a "joke", it's just that felhunter provides significant advantage versus casters, while succubus is a more universal pet.

Plus, the topic said Healer priest, not Shadow Priest! Cheater.

[lemekim]

[Demonic] Mukbar nu elzab [/Demonic] yes!
Waste a fear. Bah, the fear would only last 2 seconds. You wouldn't have time to SB, and you're wasting DC/SB already. Besides, that isn't enough finishing damage. 2 shadowbolts is only 2-3k damage tops, from enough. DC/SB is another 1-2k, but that only gets to the 4k health minimum everyone has. The opponent is far from helpess at this point, because you've wasted charm and fear, and they've broken out of both.

That's an extremely weak battle 'strategy' that won't work against anyone but newbies in greens and blues who can't break out of &^#$ and wastes the warlock's shards and tricks.

Heck, you might as well shadowburn then charm, run away and shadowbolt from a distance, DC when they're up close, and SBurn again.

Then again, maybe the PvP'ers don't know what they're talking about. You know, when charm fails, when fear's broken out of, when that's not enough crunch damage even with over 300 +damage equipment and enough epic gear to make others drool.

Succubi have their many uses, but when charm is shadow resist based and every priest around has a cheap 10 minute shadow resist buff, an shield buff that sucks up damage every 30 seconds, charm and fear being on the same miniscule impossibly slow timer, and flash heals faster and more powerful than not, charms and shadowbolts are not the smartest option.
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When I said top gear, I meant top gear - 300 spell damage is far from that. 450-500+ spell damage, double trinkets, etc. So yes, 3 Shadowbolts will put up 4k-5k damage easily, when each HITS for 1.5k+. Deathcoil/Shadowburn will add 2k more. I don't think many people have 6-7k life, what do you think? No, this doesn't work well if you don't have the gear for it, I am glad you figured it out on your own, even though I said it in the original post.

Also, the fear while under seduce is not really necessary, no, it's just to prevent the user (priest in this case) from action in that split second that they are free from Charm, because you have to pop trinket first to break fear before you can cast anything.

As for the Shadow self-buff - Curse of Shadow is a surprisingly useful spell, it will easily negate that 60 Shadow resist, and add 10% damage. Very useful with Succubus/Shadowbolts.

[Drasca]

3 Shadowbolts will put up 4k-5k damage easily, when each HITS for 1.5k+.
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Your arguement was flawed from the start.

500-600 magic damage in equipment means you're sacrificing a lot of stam for damage, and you'll have less than 4k health overall, which is the baseline minimum for PvP. No life = dead.

Will of the Forsaken, SW:Pain, Devouring Plague, Silence, Mind Blast, Mind Flay, trinket out of fear, Shield, Mind Flay until the warlock's dead. (If the warlock stupidly put magic dots on me, dispell them).

I applaud MJ for bringing upWotF, trinkets, DP (UD Priest racial spell, not shadow priest). Every priest can mind Blast, shield, or trinket out of fear. Most mana burn in between mind blasts, dispel, or scream, or if they must, they'll heal themselves-- in which case you're really worked over as you've wasted those long SB casts for nothing.

Besides that, CoT is far more useful vs priests. If you aren't facing a serious PvP UD Horde priest, you must be facing a serious Dwarf Priest, who'll simply be outright immune to your fear and you'll have zero ability to strip them of that.

CoS only negates the buff, that doesn't include equipment or the inherent utility of the priest taking longer to cast their spells! Like, Mana burn.

3 shadowbolts, harumph. No serious PvP'er expects to cast 3 shadow bolts in a row (except vs certain farmers...). They won't hit for over 1.5k+ each without pre 1.9 Ruin negative resistence glitches, they hit for even less now. You'll be P. screamed and laughed at as the holy priest bubbles and heals anything you've damage done, and then begins a m. burn / blast while your next charm/fear fails, and DC having a fair chance failing as they're equipped with shadow resist equipment on top of the buff.

For serious PvP'ers it is actually pretty easy to mitigate 5-7k damage. Most wars have that much outright. Holy priests that pvp have a minimum of 4k health (closer to 4.5k), plus stam buff and shield, so... 5-6k health overall life after buffs plus an ability to easily heal that. Your strat isn't going to fly.

I've even used an imp to beat noob locks that try this hopelessly failed strat. You've been fighting farmers too much.

How about the buff you get from Demonic Sacrifice?

Sorry RTM, didn't catch this one first time. Nope, not dispellable. Original release versions were (and then became only some of them), but we're far past that now. D.Sacrifice buffs cannot be dispelled off you. Only death, summoning a new pet, possibly logging out, and the 30 minute limit removes them off you.

Edit: PS, if you mention ToEP, and we're talking about a priest, IIRC, ToEP gives a buff that can be dispelled off you. That too, doesn't fly.