Terenas 1/27

[Alram]

1. What is the best way to handle loot distribution on a large raid with 2 or more guilds involved?

Some form of Zero Sum point system is the best from what I've seen.

We can use assigned point values that the Stormrage alliance uses as a starting point. Point assignment has some flexibility. But the basic is that when a piece of loot drops the system "gains" that many points, but then someone "spends" points on that piece of loot, so the total sum is zero (individual point values may fluctuate between negative and positive values).[/QUOTE]
I don't follow.

[Klaus]

I wonder when Xarhud is online and up for instance runs.

I can probably swing just about any night, but I have to plan them in advance (Mrs. Klaus likes to know when I'm going to be occupied for a whole evening). Non-weekend evenings would have to end fairly early so I can get some sleep. I've been staying up way too late for months now, and I'm trying to stop.

I have the Jintha'Alor quests in my log, and thanks to a PUG last friday, most of them are half complete. I'm hoping that Necrali, Octord or Yuri will be able to come help me complete them sometime this week. I have yet to do any quest prep for ST, ZF or Mara, largely because my log is very full with other stuff that I'm still trying to finish up.

[Alram]

I can probably swing just about any night, but I have to plan them in advance (Mrs. Klaus likes to know when I'm going to be occupied for a whole evening).  Non-weekend  evenings would have to end fairly early so I can get some sleep.  I've been staying up way too late for months now, and I'm trying to stop.

I have the Jintha'Alor quests in my log, and thanks to a PUG last friday, most of them are half complete.  I'm hoping that Necrali, Octord or Yuri will be able to come help me complete them sometime this week.  I have yet to do any quest prep for ST, ZF or Mara, largely because my log is very full with other stuff that I'm still trying to finish up.
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ZF and Mara require minimal preparation. The class specific quests for ST take a lot of time.
I will be on every evening: Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I'd prefer not to do them on Friday. What nights can others help us take on Jintha'Alor and/or these instances?

[Alram]

FYI, Bonemage, I was the paladin who whispered and teased you on SR the other night about being a hordie. I went to SR to play WSG from the Alliance scum side to get insights into the the layout and so on. I also wanted to see PVP from a paladin's perspective (I have a level 18 paladin which was the 1st toon I took to such a high level.) I felt really gimped, butI did gain much of the insight I was looking for.

[vor_lord]

ZF and Mara require minimal preparation.  The class specific quests for ST take a lot of time.
I will be on every evening: Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I'd prefer not to do them on Friday. What nights can others help us take on Jintha'Alor and/or these instances?
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I have the opposite problem as Klaus. My pre-planned playing time is on Fridays, which like you I'd prefer to not do these lower ones (once Xarhud is ready for BRD then Fridays are the best time). All other game time (and recently I have gotten quite a bit more than normal) I can't commit to ahead of time as it will be subordinate to any other activities. Basically, if my wife wants us to do something, I will. If she'd rather do something that I don't participate in, I can play.

What I can say is that if I'm on I would like to help. I have no pressing needs with any characters so I will be available to help if I'm on and have some time to play.

[bonemage]

FYI, Bonemage, I was the paladin who whispered and teased you on SR the other night about being a hordie. I went to SR to play WSG from the Alliance scum side to get insights into  the the layout and so on.  I also wanted to see PVP from a paladin's perspective (I have a level 18 paladin which was the 1st toon I took to such a high level.) I felt really gimped, butI did gain much of the insight I was looking for.
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Ah, the great mystery is solved! Treesh and I pondered on this for awhile. I had no idea how someone who wasn't in the /lurkers channel or in the guild would know I was online, and that I was bonemage. How did you know I was on and had the same name on both realms? Just a random guess, or did we bump into each other on the road?

[Kevin]

So much to respond to.

1. As for runs for this week. I haven't even started the butcher questline and would like to. I need a tribute run that doesn't kill Kromcrush to get the quest for DM West, I'd like to do that before doing DM:W. I need to kill the emperor. I need to kill Urok Doomhowl in LBRS as we failed that quest last time (and I take responsibility for that). I still need to 5 man Baron. I don't really have a preference this week but I'd like to get somewhere I can get a quest out of the log. :) But that has never stopped me from going somewhere else before. :)

2. I'm for a guild alliance. I'm not for recruiting into Lurkers as, well the Lurker guilds are intended to be places for people who already read the lounge to have an easier time to get together. There is already discussion that too much guild stuff happens here and not enough strat stuff.

3. The alliance on Stormrage only uses points for the 40 man instances. We use a zero sum system that basically means (assuming the loot drops for the class) that the more time you spend raiding the more loot you will get. It also doesn't completely shut new people out of loot since on average (again assuming the loot drops which it doesn't for our priests) half the class will be positive and half the class will be negative so a new person starts in the middle of the system.

We don't use this on ZG runs or other smaller raids. We don't quite have a formal loot system for the non 40 mans but we are looking at doing something like:

Base rule: You may win, by rolling Need, one blue/purple and one set per run provided you immediately equip the item (no rolling need on BoEs and then disposing of them as gifts or through the AH). Further items of this classification may end up being yours because nobody else wants them, but you are limited to winning one of these items by Need per run.

Item one: BoEs.
- green/blue BoEs: roll need if you need it on the toon you are playing, roll greed otherwise; discussions on whether the need to give the item to an alt or someone in particular who is not on the raid may be taken up after the roll, but the item's winner has final say.

- purple BoEs: roll need if you need it on the toon you are playing, pass otherwise, raid will determine dispensation of the item either by assigning it to someone, or simply rolling greed.

Item two: BoPs
- ALL BoPs: roll need if you need it as an upgrade for the toon you are playing. Roll greed if you can use it but you have already won a blue/purple or set. It's better to see the item used than DE'd. Pass if you won't wear it. If no one takes it, roll greed for the item or the shard if there is an enchanter.

Item three: BoP repeatable quest drops (Corruptor's Scourgestones and the like): roll need until you've gotten one on this raid. Roll greed thereafter. If you're already exalted with AD, PASS.

Item four: Chromatic Scales, Abomination Stitchings, etc: If you need them, roll need until you've gotten one on this raid; shift to greed thereafter. If you don't need them (which includes not knowing what they're for), PASS.

That's kind of a base rule set with modifications that many groups use. The points of contention are on BoP blues but I find that in a family type group the you can roll greed and win more than one BoP is nicer. If we play with these people enough we'll know if they are "loot whores" who are rolling need/greed on BoP's they don't really need because they want to make sure they get the shard or the 2-5 gold it might vendor for.

It's not a lot different than what we do on our 5 mans now. It's also open for tweaking and discussion and I bring it up here for a base for us to go from. As mentioned this is not currently a formal rule system used by any of the alliance guilds. We are discussing it though. It's a comprimise between speed and fairness.

There are some things in ZG that would need special rules. The coins for instance. Most common ways are for everyone to greed all of them and then do exchanges for the ones they need afterwards. Roll greed on the ones they can use now (have the rep for) and greed or pass on the others. Have them all go to "banker" toon and deal with distribution outside the raid. Banker can be used in a full on greed them all system too. You can send them to the bank on a 1 to 1 credit system. Each coin you send in you can get another of the type you want out this just cuts out the individual bartering. Some groups consider the bracers and other quest items as your blue/purple for that run, others consider them seperate.

4. As much as I would like to help out with setting up an alliance I'm not sure I've got the energy to do it without having to take away time from the folks on Stormrage and this issue tears the hell out of me. I really want to see you guys on Terenas do this stuff and I have experience with it, but I don't want to help lead two different groups, I don't think I can. I want to spend more time on both servers. I want to raid. I want to alt. I want to PvP. I want to do it on both servers too. :) However since I'm not actually driven to get to the new content at any speed I'm OK with dropping down my raiding time on Stormrage and upping it on Terenas. The only thing I've got going for me on Stormrage that makes me needed is that I'm willing to lead, and I'm still the highest FR warrior but that shouldn't be the case for long and they have enough leaders that me being there less won't kill them. Though it'll hurt to lose the interactions with them for me.

5. Some of the feelings of Terenas Lurkers mirror those of Stormrage Lurkers from months ago. You have one toon, that is who you want to play and you want to see the end game content with your friends. This caused a lot of stress for both sides. I can't blame anyone for it, even if I do get temporarily bitter about it. You have the advantage of some of us having dealt with this before and being in a group that has a lot of members ready to raid and wanting to work on it more. There was much of that not there on Stormrage. I know I wasn't ready to raid at the time. You've also got the less satisfying option, as mentioned, of tagging along with us on Stormrage. We would love to have you there and work with you all too. :) Or course I keep trying to get the Stormrage people on the Terenas server too so that I don't have to choose as much. :) I don't think we'll have the same sort of problems we had on Stormrage. Problems that I reget to say I was a part of creating or at least making worse.

6. I'm around for advice and insights. I will try to stay out of the leader rolls unless you really need me to (which we shouldn't it seems to me). You guys are great and I'm so glad I'm able to play with you all and I miss that I couldn't for the months that even seeing someone play horde would cause panic attacks.

Ah well lets have some more fun on Friday! :)

[Alram]

Ah, the great mystery is solved!  Treesh and I pondered on this for awhile.  I had no idea how someone who wasn't in the /lurkers channel or in the guild would know I was online, and that I was bonemage.  How did you know I was on and had the same name on both realms?  Just a random guess, or did we bump into each other on the road?
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While I was on SR (and it wasn't long) I did a /who lurkers out of curiosity and the name "Durambar" came up. I couldn't resist, and thought I'd let you wonder about it for a few days. I actually have several toons on SR-- from the days I thought I wanted to be part of The Basin.

[Kevin]

Oh priest advice. And yeah my biggest priest is only L29 (and he is shadow right now my biggest holy priest is only L21) but I have main healed with a paladin and with a druid a fair bit.

On your talents. I think you should get Improved Prayer of Healing. With that talent if you hit two people with it, it becomes your most HP/s and HP/MP spell in most cases. As a paladin who no AoE heal and a druid with more a less a gimmick for AoE healing I really wish I had a good AoE heal. :) If you are that deep in Holy I think it a mistake to not get it.

That gives you 6 points left to play with.

I personally like spirit of redemption though other priests will say you messed up if you died and the small amount of healing it will do won't save the group anyway. I have seen it save wipes in 5 mans, several times. Generally it was when something else went wrong and we were fighting two groups at once or something like that but it was enough healing after the priest was dead to keep up to win. I know it got us the victory on Thermaplugg in Gnomer the first time we faced him and none of us really knew the encounter. I know it saved a 5 man live strat run I was on that would have been over becuase of respawns if we couldn't recover. I've seen a priest with a soulstone burn out of mana healing, draw the aggro, die with spirit of redemtion providing more healing then stone up and finish the fight. In raids it's pretty much a beacon that, guys I'm dead now you messed up and we are probably going to wipe very soon. In a 40 man the healing it does is pretty much pointless, yeah.

I don't have a problem with you not having subtlety. I see that as a PuG healing talent or a talent for a healer that won't let others heal on raids. It can also be helpful with the early healing for the tank, but if you have a good tank, holding against healing aggro is not hard, it's much easier than holding against DPS. You have good tanks on Terenas. :) So your inspiration choice I think is a good one.

Meditation helps the longevity and it's a better talent for priests than it is for druids in my book. However I don't miss it that much on my druid and I don't know how you feel on it. The Terenas groups you seem to usually play in are very good about focus fire and focused damage which should help the mana pool not be as important. In PuGs this could of course be huge. Really if you want divine spirit, pick this up. You put those two together (DS is what 5 mana per tick while not casting and that would be what .75 mana a tick while casting with mediation). It's a solo healer or a low healer raid talent. DS is very nice in raids and the other healers (and casters) will be very pleased to see you cast it. :)

Holy Fire is a fun talent. I love seeing it as a tank, it means I'm doing my job very well if a priest feels they can waste time and mana on it. :)

But I'll let others with more direct experience speak up.

[Alram]

I have the opposite problem as Klaus.  My pre-planned playing time is on Fridays, which like you I'd prefer to not do these lower ones (once Xarhud is ready for BRD then Fridays are the best time).  All other game time (and recently I have gotten quite a bit more than normal) I can't commit to ahead of time as it will be subordinate to any other activities.  Basically, if my wife wants us to do something, I will.  If she'd rather do something that I don't participate in, I can play.

What I can say is that if I'm on I would like to help.  I have no pressing needs with any characters so I will be available to help if I'm on and have some time to play.
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The elite Hinterlands quests could easily be 3 manned if we have 1 higher level accompanying us. The same holds true for ZF if we only do the Carrot quest.

[Concillian]

I don't follow.
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In simple terms, a piece of Loot drops on a 40 person raid.

It has some arbitrary point value of 40 points.

One person ends up -40 points when they receive that item
Everyone in the entire raid gets +1 point just for being there to see the item drop.

At the end of the encounter the person that received the item has -39 points and everyone else has +1 point.

For loot distribution, the person with the largest number of (positive) points has first "claim" to the item. If they do not wish to use it (spend their 'points' for the item) then they pass to the person with the next highest number of points. Thus the people who have participated much but not had loot drop for them will have the first option of saying "I want this one".

So you go into Molten Core for the first time and everyone has zero points. As time goes by, some people end up with positive points, some people end up with negative points, but if you total all points the result will still be zero.

Basically you get points for participation, so the most consitently active are also the most consistently rewarded. Because if you take a large group of 40 to kill half a dozen bosses several people can expect to walk away empty handed. This helps to distribute loot in a fair manner so people don't get an unlucky streak of several /rolls and end up empty handed for a month straight while other people are stacking on the upgrades.

As GG mentioned, this is largely for use in places where true 'endgame' type loot drops. MC and beyond. In places where purples are more rare, then more relaxed looting systems are generally acceptable. In a situation where we are all so friendly, we can generally come to an agreement easily, but when you have an alliance of guilds, especially early on as trust is still building... you need more structured rules. If one group percieves a preference one way or another, even in a single case, alliances can dissolve into feuds.

[bonemage]

4. As much as I would like to help out with setting up an alliance I'm not sure I've got the energy to do it without having to take away time from the folks on Stormrage and this issue tears the hell out of me.  I really want to see you guys on Terenas do this stuff and I have experience with it, but I don't want to help lead two different groups, I don't think I can.  I want to spend more time on both servers.  I want to raid.  I want to alt.  I want to PvP.  I want to do it on both servers too.  :)  However since I'm not actually driven to get to the new content at any speed I'm OK with dropping down my raiding time on Stormrage and upping it on Terenas.  The only thing I've got going for me on Stormrage that makes me needed is that I'm willing to lead, and I'm still the highest FR warrior but that shouldn't be the case for long and they have enough leaders that me being there less won't kill them.  Though it'll hurt to lose the interactions with them for me. 

(snip)

6. I'm around for advice and insights.  I will try to stay out of the leader rolls unless you really need me to (which we shouldn't it seems to me). You guys are great and I'm so glad I'm able to play with you all and I miss that I couldn't for the months that even seeing someone play horde would cause panic attacks.

Ah well lets have some more fun on Friday!  :)
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This is something that I've actually thought about before. Your experience and insights into both instances, guild alliances, loot drama, etc. is very valuable to those of us on Terenas. I've read all of the posts and drama of people leaving the SR guild, even though I knew nearly no one involved. The pains that the guild on SR went through caused me a great deal of sadness, as people were obviously quite hurt by some things done and/or said, and I always knew that we would someday face similar problems on Terenas, which is where my heart lies. While trying to plan Fridays with vor_lord, we've always (have we failed at this and I've forgetton?) been able to keep your only request, and that is to adventure with Treesh. Your flexibility with everything else has made planning easier, and I personally appreciate this. There are several of us willing/wanting to lead on Terenas (which you've cleverly picked up on ;) ), so I don't think you'll ever be asked to head up a guild alliance there, as it is a lot to ask. We'll just continue to ask for your opinion and insight into problems, so we can take advantage of your experience without taxing you. Thanks for everything.

[Concillian]

I decided to start a new character, a human warrior on Stormrage.  He is from an alternate universe, one where Durambar never dies and becomes Forsaken.  My undead warrior will be referred to as Durambar and my Stormrage warrior as AU Durambar (AU is for Alternate Universe), though both toons are named Durambar.  [right][snapback]100011[/snapback][/right]

He may be named Durambar, but I will call him Durambalt.

Hope you don't mind :D

[bonemage]

He may be named Durambar, but I will call him Durambalt.

Hope you don't mind  :D
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Durambalt is easier. I don't mind.

[Xame]

As GG said, so much to respond to.

Yuri will be there for a late night run. NOS didn't charge me any DKP for my Arcanist Boots http://thottbot.com/?i=36042 so I'm feeling a bit guilty of doing two MC runs and then walking away with the loot.

Vor_lord and myself have had several discussions about end game guild alliances. I'm a very very tolerent person, but I got headaches from my MC runs. Each night was 4-5hrs on a run that should take <45mins. Our raid leader was very good (for what appears to be his first time leading, but appears to have run MC as a tagalong many many times). He explained the fights very carefully and placed the raid well. ~35/40 people followed directions and did as they where told. QUIETLY and correctly did their jobs. ~5 people just didn't get it (different people on different fights and a constant group of people coming and going). Concepts such as "sunder count", 16 debuff limit and dps on/off needed to be gone over in very painful detail, sometimes repeatedly. And some people I believe never "got-it", since the warlocks/priests/hunters filled the 16 slots with debuffs on sunder 1. "Hey, Einni said no dps right, debuffs are ok?"

The headaches come from wanting to open your mouth and says things. It is like a scream that just cann't come out. How in the hell did you get to 60, get the gear to go to MC and be so clueless. The raid leader, to his credit, kept his cool and was very upbeat and positive. I personally would have started kicking people after the second pull. Yes we needed all of their blue/green dps to finish Luci. But the cost of my headache...... As I said 30-35 people had their act together but after 2-3hrs and a few wipes, some of them needed to start expressing themselves on Vent. Again, drama and my headache. The raid leader held it all together for the final kill on Luci.

Once Luci was down the masterlooter picked up SOME of the loot and started passing it out. Yuri rolled an uber 79 to bring the boots home against 3 other mages. Sure enough, someone walked up to the Core hound pack and aggros it. Raid wipe. The raid needed to re-rez to finish the looting processes (thanks for the extra 10% on the repair bill).

After the MC raid, Yuri did a Strat dead with Lurkers. Night and day. The amount of explaination was a low. The converstation was fun and I had a great time. Similar to the joy I felt on our first day in UBRS with GG explaining the fight and us executing it. Pure joy in the game. Knowing some of the lurkers in real life, they would not tolerate people not being able to follow directions for 4-5hrs. A raid is "work" and you don't get to express your "style" when you are part of the DPS pack: groups 3-8. But every single person can wipe the raid by acting stupid.

Thus, to keep the game fun I want a guild alliance with like minded mature people. The majority of people I encounter in the game are of this type. Some haven't learn to play well (mechanics of aggro, dps, healing etc), but will take advice and up their game. What I don't want is a guild alliance with a guild that cann't keep their "Wankers" in check.

GG, I cann't speak for everyone but I believe that we are looking to you and Treesh for advice on how not to screw up. Treesh is right, there will be drama. You have also suffered through it once (or twice :P ) on Stormrage. Hopefully we can put something together that will make the game more fun.

On a different point, Vent vs TS. Stick with TS. Almost all guilds use Vent so you should have it handly (NOS, Nightmare Syndicate, BoV, Thrall's Champions are Vent servers I've been on). Everyone also appears to use TS because it's the "other" choice. TS has some advantages in raids in that you can as the leader turn off other people's mics. Although we laugh/yell/cry about it when Gantor brings dinner to a run, it is completely unacceptable to me personally to listen to it for 4-5hrs (personal experiance here) when you are expected to be quiet yourself.

Thanks GG and Treesh for all of the FR gear you have made/found for me.

[Treesh]

Maybe there are some specific pitfalls regarding loot drama that we can at least try to avoid.
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Well, the main pitfalls to avoid are one person getting all the BOP loot through randoming between those who want the items. Some folks are really lucky in the /rolls, some folks are really unlucky. Most folks are somewhere in between. However, those have-nots start getting upset at the haves. This is where some kind of a points system comes in. I like the zero sum system we have on Stormrage. It's not perfect, but it does get the gear to folks with a minimum of fuss. You will still have some cases where you have folks playing the same class who have different specs but basically the same amount of points. Who gets the item? You can either have them roll off on it (or have someone else do a roll to decide) or award it by spec. Say, a Humongous Two-handed Sword of Awesome DPS drops. Do you random it between the prot spec and arms/fury warrior or do you base it on spec instead? Say it's a one hander instead of a two-hander so now you've got rogues who want it too? All three people (the two warriors and the sword rogue now) have attended every raid up to that point so they have equal points? Who gets it and how do you not allow the whining that will follow to cause some really hard feelings between people?

There's also the issues of BOEs that drop and how to divvy those up. What about folks with alts who can use the item too, but the alts weren't on the raid? Do you let folks claim a need for the item for alts that aren't there? Generally it seems to work better to not allow need claims for characters who aren't there. Only those characters in the raid when the BOE dropped can claim need. If no one in the raid needs the BOE, greed it off between everyone there. If someone wants to setup a deal with the person who won the BOE, either giving them gold or trading another item for it or whatever, that's between those two people.

OH! One of the biggies! The amount of loot that drops. There are only so many items that drop from a boss, only so many items that drop from the "trash" mobs. There are 40 people in the raid. Not everyone can get a piece of loot on every single boss kill. There is only so much loot that drops. No, it is not the fault of the warriors that more warrior loot drops than priest loot. No it is not the fault of the rogues that hunter loot drops more than mage loot. It's the roll of the dice. Loot doesn't fall like rain in Molten Core. You have to make multiple runs to gear up folks.

I'm sure there's more I missed, but those are some of the problems.

[Treesh]

I am sure we are all of one accord as to what we type of players we'd like to ally with. I do have some questions though that I'd like feedback on.

1. What is the best way to handle loot distribution on a large raid with 2 or more guilds involved?

2. Prior to forming a large raid, is it advisable to do some 5 man mixed runs to see if we are compatible?
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1. I like the zero sum system (even if Aleri is hosed by it on SR because of the lack of priest loot that drops for us in MC). For the 40 man stuff, we use zero sum. For the <40 man raids, we generally do more like PUG loot rules, with more flexibility of course since we know folks better.

2. 5 mans or smaller raids would be a good idea to see if things can work. 5 mans don't really show raid mentalities though so there should also be smaller mixed raids planned as well. The more I've been playing in ZG lately, the more it does feel like good testing for how things would work in a 40 man for any alliance we may make. There's more chance for confusion about main assists, secondary tanks, possibility of healer rotations or if you'll just fall into a less structured healing setup, how long folks can actually remain focus on their jobs than in 5 or 10 mans. The Drakk fight in UBRS helps test the waters too, but getting there is easy peasy so it's not as draining as fighting your way through the first few encounters of MC and still needing to be able to focus to continue on well.

[Treesh]

4. As much as I would like to help out with setting up an alliance I'm not sure I've got the energy to do it without having to take away time from the folks on Stormrage and this issue tears the hell out of me.&nbsp; I really want to see you guys on Terenas do this stuff and I have experience with it, but I don't want to help lead two different groups, I don't think I can.&nbsp; I want to spend more time on both servers.&nbsp; I want to raid.&nbsp; I want to alt.&nbsp; I want to PvP.&nbsp; I want to do it on both servers too.&nbsp; :)&nbsp; However since I'm not actually driven to get to the new content at any speed I'm OK with dropping down my raiding time on Stormrage and upping it on Terenas.&nbsp; The only thing I've got going for me on Stormrage that makes me needed is that I'm willing to lead, and I'm still the highest FR warrior but that shouldn't be the case for long and they have enough leaders that me being there less won't kill them.&nbsp; Though it'll hurt to lose the interactions with them for me.[right][snapback]100047[/snapback][/right]

This is one thing I am putting my foot down with. He is NOT going to be lco-leading the alliance (if we get one). He is not going to be raid leading. I've seen how draining it is for him on Stormrage and I will not have him doing it on Terenas too. As much as I love you guys on Terenas, GG comes first. That said, I have absolute and complete confidence in any of you taking up the reins yourselves and I'll gladly follow any of you into battle. :) I would actually like to be more active in the leading over on Terenas than I am on Stormrage for a couple of reasons. Mogo is more like me than either Eth or Aleri. They highlight a few facets of my personality, but it comes together much more for me when I'm playing Mogo. What do you expect when playing a hybrid class? ;) It also hurt too much feeling like I've been shut out and left behind on Stormrage because of my work schedule and having so many East Coasters not able to start the raids later. With Terenas, since we generally start later, that hopefully won't be an issue even if we have to expand out a bit and do raids on days other than Fridays. I really don't want to lose the feeling of the togetherness of the guild on Terenas. I also want to really help you guys get everything you want out of the game. A good way for me to do that is to get in on some of the organizing or even just being class leader on the raids and helping guide folks with little tips and tricks we've learned. I'm very glad I can finally take Eth into some of these places and not have the screen slide-show on me because the fights are completely different depending on if I'm healing on Aleri or DPSing on Eth. Many different little things that add up and I'd love to help others learn (without force-feeding them) and have fun too.

[Treesh]

Thanks GG and Treesh for all of the FR gear you have made/found for me.
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It was absolutely our pleasure. :) The better geared folks are, the less aggravating Molten Core is. ;)

You mention taking the 5 hours to get Luci down as opposed to under 45 minutes. Part of that is gearing and part of that is just learning. Early MC is mostly just learning the encounters, learning just how important it is to decurse folks, clear Mind Controls, don't stand near the imp cave, don't wander through the surgers, hug the annihilators, blah, blah, blah. The more folks you have who are willing to listen and aren't total wankers with the attention span of gnat, the quicker the learning curve will be. When Avarice was learning Molten Core, we had some folks in raiding guilds who had MC on farm status impressed with how quickly we were learning the encounters and congratulated us for it. If we can find other guilds with folks half as good as our Terenas crew, we'll be golden and should fly through the learning curve at the beginning of MC. Towards the end of MC, gear starts to make more of a difference in how quickly you can progress, but it still basically comes down to how much focus and self-discipline folks have.

[swirly]

My preference would probably be to 5 man brd. I still have the quest to kill Bael'Gar and the second KOS quest which is basically done on the pulls getting to him. I have the Kill the Emp quest as well. I believe those are the only three I have left, but wouldn't mind getting them done. Course doing Bael'Gar and KOS would slow down any group wanting to just kill the Emp.

As far as raids go my preference would be to raid ubrs. Course yuri won't be there till late and he has the only key for that so I guess 5-manning or raiding lbrs with the people who have key parts would work as well.

Other than those things I'd be up for pretty much anything, though I'd also like to get some non instance quests done. I need to kill Araj in andorhal for two quests, need to kill the elite bat, the elite slug, the courier, then the oracle as well. Another thing that might be interesting to do would be to kill some dukes in Silithus. I have enough things to kill at least 4 of them currently except that I'm lacking a few large brilliant shards that are required to make the necklace. All this stuff can be done in 5 mans before we really get started with instances too so thats another option. Just throwing it out there as stuff I would like to do.

My warrior (51) has all the ZF quests and so would like to do that place sometime. She has never been to maraudon either and needs to do the hinterlands stuff as well. My first priority is ZF though just so that I can get rid of the 6 or so quests that she has for there. This also may not be a friday thing, but I know several others are looking towards doing such and so I thought I should put the info out there.