Demonology Exploit

[MongoJerry]

A warlock in our guild who is a Demonology buff has been using my services to use what is probably, ok definitely, an expoit. Here's how it works.

The warlock uses Demonic Sacrifice to sacrifice his pet, which gives the warlock a 30 minute buff depending on what pet he sacrificed as follows:

1. Imp: Increases fire damage by 15%
2. Voidwalker: Restores 3% of total health every 4 seconds (180 health restored every 4 seconds for this warlock in question)
3. Succubus: Increases shadow damage by 15%
4. Felhunter: Restores 2% of mana every 4 seconds

This buff lasts 30 minutes or until the warlock summons another demon. So far, no exploit. OK, now comes the exploit part: A priest, shaman, or paladin can resurrect the demon and the warlock doesn't lose the Demonic Sacrifice buff. It's a little tricky, though, because resurrection takes 10 seconds and the demon corpses will despawn after 10 seconds. The resurrecter has to be ready to cast resurrect on the demon within a second (maybe half a second) of the moment the warlock sacrifices his pet. Basically, you have to cast resurrect on the demon while it's still in its death animation. Otherwise, the demon's corpse will despawn before it gets resurrected.

This is a major exploit. Consider when the warlock uses a voidwalker for this, as our guild's warlock often does. He gets the voidwalker sacrifice buff, plus he can use Master Demonologist to reduce all damage by 10% and use Soul Link to share 30% of all damage taken with the voidwalker. The warlock how has over 6k health with -40% damage taken and heals for 180 health every 4 seconds. Basically, the man is practically invulnerable in this setup. (He could even take one of Vendetta's pyroblast hits!).

The other option he sometimes breaks out when he wants to deal more damage is to sacrifice a succubus. This boosts his shadow damage by 15%. Plus, he can use Master Demonologist to increase his and his succubus's damage by 10% and still use Soul Link to share some damage with his succubus.

[Rinnhart]

This isn't an exploit.

[Zarathustra]

This isn't an exploit.
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If Blizzard intended these buffs to be active as a tradeoff for SACRIFICING the use of a minion, it most certainly is.

What of this "trick" doesn't say exploit to you?

[Quark]

If Blizzard intended these buffs to be active as a tradeoff for SACRIFICING the use of a minion, it most certainly is.

What of this "trick" doesn't say exploit to you?
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Maybe that he's been using it?

[Luminon]

It's actually surprising how many locks actually use this exploit, though thats understandable since both the MD and DS bonuses are great, and combined they are godly. One warlock argued that because the tooltip says "The effect is canceled if any Demon is summoned" rezzing the demon is not an exploit. So really untill i see a blue post saying wether this is an exploit or not I'd say it's one of those creative uses of game mechanics.

[MongoJerry]

I'd say it's one of those creative uses of game mechanics.

Translation: Exploit

I'm not too concerned with it, though. It makes the warlock more powerful than he or she should be, but I haven't seen anything game-breaking involving it. I'm sure Blizzard will get around to fixing this loophole if it becomes a real problem.

[Zarathustra]

Translation:  Exploit

I'm not too concerned with it, though.  It makes the warlock more powerful than he or she should be, but I haven't seen anything game-breaking involving it.  I'm sure Blizzard will get around to fixing this loophole if it becomes a real problem.
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I was under the impression that a 10-second corpse timer on the pets was their method of preventing this, and that players being able to start up that rez during the death animation would be an obvious move against the intention of the spell.

[Rinnhart]

Maybe that he's been using it?
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Affliction > Demonology for leveling.

Just a tip.

This is an extremely well-known "exploit". It's been around for fricken ever and is frequently discussed on the warlock forums. It'd be a simple thing to completely prevent it, and as it stands, I've never seen it called an exploit by anyone who's opinion anyone cares about. If that changes, sure, I'll embrace it's new ranking as exploit.

It's an absolute pain in the ass to do, and worthless in Battlegrounds (which is the only place Blizzard actually cares about PvP balance).

Is it extremely powerful? Yes. Yes it is. But it's also impossible for the solo warlock to do, and you do make great tradeoffs for the ability to do it. If you're just discovering how completely kickass the warlock talent trees are, welcome, have a nice stay, roll one up, if you like.

[Luminon]

It makes the warlock more powerful than he or she should be, but I haven't seen anything game-breaking involving it.

Well what sucks about it that this exploit makes Demonology better than affliction for endgame PvE, so it limits our choices a bit because it's too good, not that I'm complaining. :whistling: ;)

Is it extremely powerful? Yes. Yes it is. But it's also impossible for the solo warlock to do, and you do make great tradeoffs for the ability to do it.

Goblin jumper cables. And the tradeoffs aren't that big really, since these buffs are so flexible.

[Zarathustra]

I guess I'm too much of a purist. When I see something that's obviously not working as intended, I don't care to exploit it like that. A good example is the Bijou turnin at Yojambe Island. It was broken for a couple weeks where it was possible to do the turnin without actually losing the Bijou. Blizzard hadn't announced anything about this exploit, and by the "well, they haven't said anything!" reasoning I could have called it a neat trick to get a lot of Zandalar reputation. Score!

But they didn't say a single thing until they had posted Infernals at the altar on all realms to prevent ANY turnins, then shortly after performed a hotfix to the realms. There was a good chunk of time where I could have easily used the "Blizzard hasn't said it's wrong!" copout.

Just because Blizzard hasn't gotten around to fixing something doesn't mean it's "right" to exploit that fact. I was under the impression that was a general consensus.

[RTM]

Another fun semi-related Warlock trick: if you respec out of MD, the buff does not disappear.

So theoretically, you could sac->rez a Succubus for +25% shadow damage, then respec to a Shadow Mastery build for an extra 10%.

[Kevin]

Another fun semi-related Warlock trick: if you respec out of MD, the buff does not disappear.

So theoretically, you could sac->rez a Succubus for +25% shadow damage, then respec to a Shadow Mastery build for an extra 10%.
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Spirit Bond for the hunter does the same thing, until the pet has to be resummoned, so as long as you don't have to fly anywhere you can use that to what little advantage the craptacular spirit bond now gives.

I imagine the MD buff goes away after a logout as well.

[Concillian]

Spirit Bond for the hunter does the same thing, until the pet has to be resummoned, so as long as you don't have to fly anywhere you can use that to what little advantage the craptacular spirit bond now gives.

I imagine the MD buff goes away after a logout as well.
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It goes away when you fly somewhere. I inadvertently verified this when I re-specced my warlock.

So if you want to respec in UC and run to Blackrock mountain or respec in Thunder Bluff and run to Silithus, then yes, you could potentially exploit this. Something tells me this will be very low on the priority list.

[Drasca]

This is a major exploit.[right][snapback]100798[/snapback][/right]

Minor. Extremely Minor. Very spot-use, very temporary power that doesn't upset any balances of power.

Pets die, Shards are eaten, preperation time required, and a dozen powerful warlocks aren't going to win the MC battles for you alone. Still need everyone else for raid encounters. Also, been a while since I've seen big blue tank a MC giant.

[oldmandennis]

Minor. Extremely Minor. Very spot-use, very temporary power that doesn't upset any balances of power.

Pets die, Shards are eaten, preperation time required, and a dozen powerful warlocks aren't going to win the MC battles for you alone. Still need everyone else for raid encounters. Also, been a while since I've seen big blue tank a MC giant.
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How is this minor? It looks like at least a 10% buff to your power. If I had to pay 1g25s everytime my raid lost an encounter by that margen.... Oh wait I do. The fact that it is a little bit of a PITA doesn't mean much, if its much of a problem, only pop it on tough encounters. Many raids do stuff like turn in Ony heads before Rag for a smaller edge.

[Rinnhart]

How is this minor?  It looks like at least a 10% buff to your power.  If I had to pay 1g25s everytime my raid lost an encounter by that margen.... Oh wait I do.  The fact that it is a little bit of a PITA doesn't mean much, if its much of a problem, only pop it on tough encounters.  Many raids do stuff like turn in Ony heads before Rag for a smaller edge.
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Because warlocks can already cap out their damage capabilities in PvE without needing to do this. Aggro is the limiting factor, not DPS.

Thusly, imp + MD > DS succubus + MD and rezzed pet.

Not to mention the fact that succubi vaporize in AEs.

This is a neat trick for showing off big numbers. It's not a functional increase in power.

[oldmandennis]

Aggro is the limiting factor, not DPS.

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I can think of important places where this is not the case, most obvious being Ragnaros.

[Rinnhart]

I can think of important places where this is not the case, most obvious being Ragnaros.
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You're just wrong.

[oldmandennis]

You're just wrong.
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O'Rly!!??

What exactly does Rag do when a caster pulls aggro? I have never seen his firey behind budge an inch.

In our guild we have a PvP mage who has no problem "accidentaly" pulling aggro. He dies 2-3 times a raid to the Giants, and thats without trinkets or flasks. As soon as the Rag fight starts, he goes all out - a similar setup to the 1 shot discussion, except without the BWL loot. And.... Rag eats frosty death. No negative reprecussions for our mage, who is at or near the top of the damage meter.

[Warlock]

If this was intended behaviour it would not require a low latency connection to make it work. I checked it out last night and my priest (an Aussie like myself) was never able to start the cast in time.