Noobish Questions (updated frequently)

[GenericKen]

So I should probably stop making new threads with each of my questions, so I made this one with the all-purpose title I can put follow ups in later.


1) What's the math for how spirit interacts with health/mana regen? Would a human warlock regening both pools be more mana efficient than a gnomish warlock's int?

2) Does the fire damage bonus from improved scorch multiply with the base bonuses from firepower or add? Speaking of which, do critical strikes multiply with the bonuses? Do bonuses to critical strike damage factor into the total critical damage or just the critical bonus?

3) How does chill/frost/freeze work? 1 second ice bolts with 15% chance to freeze for 5 seconds is pretty sexy.

4) Are shadow priests fun? What's the most fun class, in your opinion?

[MongoJerry]

So I should probably stop making new threads with each of my questions, so I made this one with the all-purpose title I can put follow ups in later.
1) What's the math for how spirit interacts with health/mana regen? Would a human warlock regening both pools be more mana efficient than a gnomish warlock's int?

Neglecting a few exceptions, generally health does not regen due to spirit while in combat. (Waiting for the list of exceptions to come pouring out...)

4) Are shadow priests fun? What's the most fun class, in your opinion?

Yeah, shadow priests are a lot of fun. You get a lot of flack at the high levels, because people think priests can only heal and generally hate it when priests dps instead of healing them, but hey, if they want healing whenever they want it, they should have played a healer themselves, right?

Basically every class is fun, and it depends on your tastes and temperment. If you want something fun and different, you might look into playing a druid, especially a feral druid.

[Lissa]

So I should probably stop making new threads with each of my questions, so I made this one with the all-purpose title I can put follow ups in later.
1) What's the math for how spirit interacts with health/mana regen? Would a human warlock regening both pools be more mana efficient than a gnomish warlock's int?

For a Warlock, Spirit is a useless stat because of Life Tap. Life Tap + Bandage will get you more Mana per minute than going for all out spirit.

Now, the reason I choose a Human vs. a Gnome for Warlock is because of something a bit more sublime...Line of Sight issues. The shorties (Dwarves and Gnomes) have real problems where a Human or Night Elf would not (a small rise may have no effect on a Human's Line of Sight, but it can block a Gnome's Line of Sight).

2) Does the fire damage bonus from improved scorch multiply with the base bonuses from firepower or add? Speaking of which, do critical strikes multiply with the bonuses? Do bonuses to critical strike damage factor into the total critical damage or just the critical bonus?

There is a simple rule involving damage in WoW. If the damage is + then it directly adds to the base damage. If the damage is %, it multiplies against the final summed up damage (spell damage + damage + modifiers, ie, Shadow Bolt does 500 damage and you have +200 damage and a +10% damage, the final resulting damage would be [500 + 200] * 1.1 = 770).

3) How does chill/frost/freeze work? 1 second ice bolts with 15% chance to freeze for 5 seconds is pretty sexy.

First off, unless you stick with the lowest levels of Frostbolt, the fastest your highest level Frostbolt will typically be 2.5 seconds (after you reach your mid 20s, Frostbolt 4 or 5 takes 3 seconds to cast and talents can drop that to 2.5 seconds). Now, the way freeze on chance works is when you Frostbolt hits the target, there is a percentage chance that it will freeze the target in place. This means that if the chance is 15%, then 1 out of every 7 Frostbolts should freeze the target (but we're dealing with a PRng here, not a true random so you mileage may vary).

4) Are shadow priests fun? What's the most fun class, in your opinion?
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I enjoy them. Others may not. The only way to know is to try them and the test realm is a good place to try out various builds to get an idea of what you may find fun.

[GenericKen]

2a) But the scorch boost is implemented something like a debuff on the target, so I wonder if it's implemented properly of if it inadvertantly multiplies the full multiplied total. Nobody's tested it out?

2b) So do criticals double the final damage or double the base + damage?

3a) What are the mechanics of frost and freeze? Frost behaves like a debuff... can it be disenchanted? Does it slow attack speed along with slowing movement? Does hitting the target break frost? Does hitting the target break freeze? If it does, do DoTs break freeze?

5) Are there any useful indepth guides online? The guides at gamefaqs are far from objective, a lot of the guides floating around are very useless, and none of the posts on the lounge seem to be stickied.

6) Which channels are shared across which cities? I hear that the LFG channel is shared across the faction's main cities, but what about the small towns? What about near instances?

7) Is there a good rule of thumb for how much gold you should be making at different given levels? I know a lot of people were surprised when they hit 40 and saw the price of mounts, so skill costs clearly aren't a good indicator of how much is neccessary for equipment and repairs.

I know one of the biggest things I wasted time with for D2 was farming and trading on a small scale before just leveling up and just getting a better order of magnitude of income.

7a) In the same vein, is there a ballpark sliding scale of how much leveling slows as you go up? With lvl 1-5 taking 1 hour, lvl 5-10 take roughly 3 hours, etc. etc.?

8) Where do you buy mounts?

[Skandranon]

2a) But the scorch boost is implemented something like a debuff on the target, so I wonder if it's implemented properly of if it inadvertantly multiplies the full multiplied total. Nobody's tested it out?

Improved Scorch does multiply. Your Fire spell doing 200 damage will do 220 with Fire Power or with max Improved Scorch on the target: with both, it will do 242 damage (not 240).

2b) So do criticals double the final damage or double the base + damage?

Spell criticals are 150% of the damage including all talents and modifiers, while physical attack criticals are 200% of the damage including all talents and modifiers. Usually, there will be talents that can raise the percentage of spell critical damage.

3a) What are the mechanics of frost and freeze? Frost behaves like a debuff... can it be disenchanted? Does it slow attack speed along with slowing movement? Does hitting the target break frost? Does hitting the target break freeze? If it does, do DoTs break freeze?

Skipping the first question, the answers are yes, no unless it says it does, no, yes, yes. Specifically, you can dispel the slowing part of any frost spell (but it doesn't affect the damage that has already been done) and while three of the frost mage's "chilled" effects slow only movement speed, one specifically mentions attack speed and slows that too.

6) Which channels are shared across which cities? I hear that the LFG channel is shared across the faction's main cities, but what about the small towns? What about near instances?

Trade, Guild Recruitment, and LFG are shared among the capitals. No other channels are shared. No other settlements share channels.

7) Is there a good rule of thumb for how much gold you should be making at different given levels?
7a) In the same vein, is there a ballpark sliding scale of how much leveling slows as you go up? With lvl 1-5 taking 1 hour, lvl 5-10 take roughly 3 hours, etc. etc.?

No. (x2)

8) Where do you buy mounts?
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Depends on your race. Don't worry about it until you hit 40.

[MongoJerry]

7) Is there a good rule of thumb for how much gold you should be making at different given levels? I know a lot of people were surprised when they hit 40 and saw the price of mounts, so skill costs clearly aren't a good indicator of how much is neccessary for equipment and repairs.

I know one of the biggest things I wasted time with for D2 was farming and trading on a small scale before just leveling up and just getting a better order of magnitude of income.

The amount of money you make rises very quickly as you level up. I wouldn't worry about being especially frugal until you start nearing level 40. At that point, some people actually decide not to get their upgraded spells and skills until they get their mounts. Personally, I think this is silly, however. I usually go right ahead and keep clearing on leveling and usually end up with my 80g for my mount just a few levels later. (Mount + skill training costs 100g normally, but if you are honored with your faction, you get a 10% discount on all items and services and if you get to rank 3 PvP, which is very easy to get, you get another 10% discount).

If you want to, you can play the auction house a little and sell some items there. There are some low level items that high level players do like to buy either for themselves or for their twink alts. It's a good way to make a little cash on the side. But even if you don't do that, scraping the cash together to get your level 40 mount is fairly easy. On the other hand, getting your epic mount at level 60 can be a pain.

7a) In the same vein, is there a ballpark sliding scale of how much leveling slows as you go up? With lvl 1-5 taking 1 hour, lvl 5-10 take roughly 3 hours, etc. etc.?

Leveling speed slows down after level 30 but how fast it slows down depends on what you do -- are you power leveling or are you exploring everything the game has to offer? Either way, however, leveling in World of Warcraft is far easier than leveling in other MMORPG's.

[castille]

Leveling speed slows down after level 30 but how fast it slows down depends on what you do -- are you power leveling or are you exploring everything the game has to offer?  Either way, however, leveling in World of Warcraft is far easier than leveling in other MMORPG's.
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Also, try to find zones that have a lot of yellow/green zone quests, if you can. I was just crawling through levels 45-47 on my rogue, but then hit up Searing Gorge and managed to get through 1.5 levels in one night because Searing Gorge had a ton of quests that I could pick up and do with a good amount of reward.

[GenericKen]

Thanks a bunch everyone. It's nice to be back in the lunge.

9) Is there any way to get xp earned after each kill to display in some easier to see color?

9a) Are there any UI mods that enhance the conning of mobs? (the mob's DPS, abilities, HP, and XP yielded?)

9b) Do all mobs of equal level yield the same amount of experience?

[castille]

Thanks a bunch everyone. It's nice to be back in the lunge.

9) Is there any way to get xp earned after each kill to display in some easier to see color?

9a) Are there any UI mods that enhance the conning of mobs? (the mob's DPS, abilities, HP, and XP yielded?)

9b) Do all mobs of equal level yield the same amount of experience?
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9) if you right click on the tab at the top, you should be able to go down through the channel listed to Combat Messages and find the 'Experience gained' or something like that. You can change the color there.

9a) MobInfo2 will change the tooltip to include this kind of information. Takes some time for it to really gather accurate information, since it derives it from hit/percentage changes.

9b) all mobs of an equal level and type do. Rares and elites yield more, because they hit harder and are buffer than equivalent mobs.

[GenericKen]

7a) What does lvl 60 grey vendor trash sell for?

[Concillian]

7a) What does lvl 60 grey vendor trash sell for?
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Anywhere from ~10s to 2G-ish depending on the item type.

Usually armor slots are in the 50s-1G range and weapons are generally over 1G. Grey junk from animals and such is usually the stuff that's below 50s each.

[GenericKen]

10) What order are defensive abilities stacked in? Parry first, dodge first, or simultaneously? Will additional points in dodge decrease my chance to parry (the dodge first or simultaneously)?

[Lissa]

10) What order are defensive abilities stacked in? Parry first, dodge first, or simultaneously? Will additional points in dodge decrease my chance to parry (the dodge first or simultaneously)?
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My understanding is all simultaneously and depending on where the to hit roll lands will either have you dodging, parrying, blocking (if you have a shield), or getting hit.

[Legedi]

My understanding is all simultaneously and depending on where the to hit roll lands will either have you dodging, parrying, blocking (if you have a shield), or getting hit.
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I used to think this because what a lot of people said. But in this thread there is evidence otherwise. With high defense, avoidance, and fighting level 6 mobs level 60 toons can get over 100% avoidance (block migrates all damage of low level mobs). The results show that there is not a "60% cap". It also shows that misses/parries/dodges are done before shield blocks.

So for my warrior I have about 15% parry and dodge, 22% block rate, and 400 def (10% miss rate of 60 mobs). So what is first calculated is if I'm hit: .85*.85*.9= 65% chance to be hit. Then I block or take full damage on the rest. I'm not exactly sure how the blocking is figured when I'm hit. I think the thread I linked explains it. But one thing people used to thing is using shield block was bad because if you could only have a block/parry/dodge rate of 60% blocking would actually reduce your chance to parry or dodge.

I hope I wasn't too confusing. I'm at work right now, and can't go into more detail ;).

[Mavfin]

I used to think this because what a lot of people said. But in this thread there is evidence otherwise. With high defense, avoidance, and fighting level 6 mobs level 60 toons can get over 100% avoidance (block migrates all damage of low level mobs). The results show that there is not a "60% cap". It also shows that misses/parries/dodges or done before shield blocks.

So for my warrior I have about 15% parry and dodge, 22% block rate, and 400 def (10% miss rate of 60 mobs). So what is first calculated is if I'm hit: .85*.85*.9= 65% chance to be hit. Then I block or take full damage on the rest. I'm not exactly sure how the blocking is figured when I'm hit. I think the thread I linked explains it. But one thing people used to thing is using shield block was bad because if you could only have a block/parry/dodge rate of 60% blocking would actually reduce your chance to parry or dodge.

I hope I wasn't too confusing. I'm at work right now, and can't go into more detail ;).
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They were just discussing this in meat the other day. I mentioned that at least until I get more Might and stuff, I had 2% block on my shield, and someone brought up that block was bad if you had too much. Thanks for putting that to rest for me. (I'm just 19 block, 11 dodge, 14 parry in tank gear)

[Kevin]

They were just discussing this in meat the other day.  I mentioned that at least until I get more Might and stuff, I had 2% block on my shield, and someone brought up that block was bad if you had too much.  Thanks for putting that to rest for me.  (I'm just 19 block, 11 dodge, 14 parry in tank gear)
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I've never believed there was a cap on mitigation but I still generally feel that stam > block chance. Just in case you thought I was coming from a different angle than I was in that discussion. I don't think block is bad, but I just generally don't feel the need to pursue it as in situations where I want to be able to block I have essentially unlimited rage and can spam shield block with pretty much no affect on aggro control or anything else.

Though I suppose I really should sit down and find the break point of damage in, damage blocked and time to live to see where block beats stam for longevity on a melee damage deal boss. It's not a bad thing but to me it's just gravy, nice to have (and the itemization blizzard has means you'll end up with it end game) but given the choice I'll take stam or +def before it.

[Mavfin]

I've never believed there was a cap on mitigation but I still generally feel that stam > block chance.  Just in case you thought I was coming from a different angle than I was in that discussion.  I don't think block is bad, but I just generally don't feel the need to pursue it as in situations where I want to be able to block I have essentially unlimited rage and can spam shield block with pretty much no affect on aggro control or anything else.

Though I suppose I really should sit down and find the break point of damage in, damage blocked and time to live to see where block beats stam for longevity on a melee damage deal boss.  It's not a bad thing but to me it's just gravy, nice to have (and the itemization blizzard has means you'll end up with it end game) but given the choice I'll take stam or +def before it.
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Well, I understand *your* part of it, but I don't think I've reached the breakpoint where 70 hp > 2% block yet. When I get more gear, then I can think about that. At this point, it's still better to not get hit than to just soak it up. Some of this, of course, is personal preference, and I've not seen the analysis you mentioned doing, so, we all have to do our best guess.

[Legedi]

I look at blocking differently now that we are in BWL than when we just did MC. In MC most mobs hit between 500-700 normal hits. Even Golemagg only hits in the 700-900 range. There blocking 100 damage often is nice damage migration. I would spam shield block all the time. It helped the healers not have to heal as much.

But now in MC our healers are decked out much more. I don't need to worry about making them more effiencient. Our raid structer is much different now. I worry more about holding aggro since our DPS is much higher. So I use all my rage on aggro moves now.

And in BWL stuff hits for 800-1100 normal hits, crits up to 1600, and 2200 crushing hits. Plus special attacks that hit between 4000-6000 damage. Here having the chance to blocking a few hundered damage is not going to save you. But having a few hundred extra HP can.

For anything less than a 40 man raid having a high block value, with a high chance to block is still really good (execpt for than dang bloodlord. Took me from 8000 hp to 60 hp in less than 3 seconds while enraged :wacko: ). In 5 man instances blocking 100 damage can easly be a quarter to half the damage a mob does.

[Mavfin]

I look at blocking differently now that we are in BWL than when we just did MC. In MC most mobs hit between 500-700 normal hits. Even Golemagg only hits in the 700-900 range. There blocking 100 damage often is nice damage migration. I would spam shield block all the time. It helped the healers not have to heal as much.

But now in MC our healers are decked out much more. I don't need to worry about making them more effiencient. Our raid structer is much different now. I worry more about holding aggro since our DPS is much higher. So I use all my rage on aggro moves now.

And in BWL stuff hits for 800-1100 normal hits, crits up to 1600, and 2200 crushing hits. Plus special attacks that hit between 4000-6000 damage. Here having the chance to blocking a few hundered damage is not going to save you. But having a few hundred extra HP can.

For anything less than a 40 man raid having a high block value, with a high chance to block is still really good (execpt for than dang bloodlord. Took me from 8000 hp to 60 hp in less than 3 seconds while enraged :wacko: ). In 5 man instances blocking 100 damage can easly be a quarter to half the damage a mob does.
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The fact remains that I don't have your stam yet, so I have to take all the damage reduction I can get. 70 hp won't save me either in BWL, so it's a wash. All I can do is keep going and gear up some more. There's only 2 of you with that kind of stamina in our group, so the rest of us have to catch up. I'm at the point where only better stamina on gear will help, and that gear comes out of MC and BWL, so I just have to do the best I can and keep going, as neither 2% block nor 70 stam will make much difference in BWL. Just have to keep going and wait my turn to pick up the leftovers that you guys leave behind.

Edit: I think what I'm trying to say is that we agree, but we're at two different places. You're at the 'one of the two best-geared warriors in the alliance' spot, and I'm in the 'not there yet', so we have different viewpoints. When I get the gear you have, I'll change how I look at it. Right now, for BWL, neither choice makes much difference *for me*. Just takes time.

[Lissa]

I look at blocking differently now that we are in BWL than when we just did MC. In MC most mobs hit between 500-700 normal hits. Even Golemagg only hits in the 700-900 range. There blocking 100 damage often is nice damage migration. I would spam shield block all the time. It helped the healers not have to heal as much.

But now in MC our healers are decked out much more. I don't need to worry about making them more effiencient. Our raid structer is much different now. I worry more about holding aggro since our DPS is much higher. So I use all my rage on aggro moves now.

And in BWL stuff hits for 800-1100 normal hits, crits up to 1600, and 2200 crushing hits. Plus special attacks that hit between 4000-6000 damage. Here having the chance to blocking a few hundered damage is not going to save you. But having a few hundred extra HP can.

For anything less than a 40 man raid having a high block value, with a high chance to block is still really good (execpt for than dang bloodlord. Took me from 8000 hp to 60 hp in less than 3 seconds while enraged :wacko: ). In 5 man instances blocking 100 damage can easly be a quarter to half the damage a mob does.
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Mav isn't talking about the difference in hundreds of health, but the difference in up to 77 Health vs. 2% block (the two popular shield enchants right now). So the real question is, when is that 2% block (1 in 50 hits) going to be more beneficial than +77 health. With the fact that most shields now have +additional block damage built in (both the Drillborer, Aegis, and Bulwarks) and 3 piece Might increases +block damage by 30, it's not too hard to get over 100 damage blocked on a shield. So what it comes down to is, when is +2% block with >100 damage blocked going to outweigh +77 Health from the +7 Stamina enchant.

As your base % Block grows, so does the likelihood that you will block more often from that +2% block thus meaning you would mitigate more damage than you would get to your overall Health. So, it's a matter of putting together a spreadsheet and looking at how often you'll block considering incoming strikes. Just off the top of my head, somewhere around +18% to +23% Block is where the +2% Block enchant should be better than +7 Stamina to shield.