Expansion design

[Warlock]

I’ve been thinking about the expansion and it’s relation to existing content. I see a few different options for Blizzard, none very attractive:

- design the expansion for raid gear and provide it easily to all players. This will trivialise the effort that raid guilds have put into mastering the current raid instances.

- design the expansion for raid gear but don’t add new ways to obtain it. This will frustrate players without access to that equipment.

- design the expansion for non-raid gear. This will much of the content pointless for current raiders.

Assuming that what Blue has said so far isn’t just the usual marketing smokescreen my guess is that Blizzard is going with the latter option. Ten more levels of gear will bring the non-raid cap to ilvl 73 (though perhaps of epic quality); raid gear is already well beyond that and Naxx will raise it further. So current raiders will blow through instances designed to be interesting fights for people in Tier 0 and hit 70 without having had a single item upgrade.

If I was running the show I’d try for some sort of compromise between these options - provide faster than normal item progression in the expansion, with the first instances challenging but doable when in Scholo gear and the later ones challenging but doable in Naxx or their own gear. This would also avoid new 70’s needing to run ’40 man Sunken Temple’ for months before reaching entry level expansion raid gear and allow future encounters to be designed around a single expected gear standard. It’s not perfect - those first few instances will have disproportionate rewards while still being useless to raiders - but it’s better in my opinion than the purer options and I’ll be pleasantly surprised if this approach is actually taken.

What would you do and what do you think Blizzard is likely to do?

[Xanthix]

What about choice D, none of the above:

- design the expansion to offer a variety of quest- and instance-based challenges that offer something to do for people with and without tier 2/3 gear.

Based on the state of WoW at release, this sounds like what they would shoot for.

[MongoJerry]

I suspect that the low level 60 stuff will be comparatively easy for geared out raiders. However, within a couple of weeks, after most serious players have reached level 70, I expect that most of our gear will feel long outdated.

[Lissa]

I suspect that the low level 60 stuff will be comparatively easy for geared out raiders.  However, withing a couple of weeks, after most serious players have reached level 70, I expect that most of our gear will feel long outdated.
[right][snapback]108836[/snapback][/right]

small nit, but I doubt it will take two weeks to reach 70 unless someone does nothing but play the game for 16+ hours a day (I have a feeling that the grind from 60 to 70 will probably require as much experiece as it took to go from 1 to 50 or possibly 60).

[lemekim]

Given the absurd quality of gear available currently (ilvl 88, and surely ilvl 90 items in Naxx- eqiuvalent to level 80-85 epics), there were some thoughts on this floating before, and one interesting thought was that Blizzard will shift the rainbow of the loot higher - 5 man instances will now drop purples, raid dungeons will drop legendaries (at least some), and Artifacts will be the new Legendaries, where the casual dungeons would be optimized for epic-geared players (and quite possibly the outdoor mobs as well).

This would allow raiders to enjoy the new instances with a chance of getting good quality loot (at least a sidegrade or an alternative), and the instances would not be trivialized by the epic gear. On the other hand, casuals will be able to slowly gear up for these new dungeons through several other dungeons that will be available for low 60s to high 60s.

This would also allow Blizzard to rebalance classes on epic items level, and at least partially address the issue of itemization reaching absurd levels.

[Quark]

One problem: Artifacts are supposed to be one per server, I thought? Legendaries, though not easy, are much too easy to be a "one per server" deal.

[Urza-DSF]

Bleh, always hate when companies try to shove that "Only one per server" crap or "There is no way to defeat this monster" BS in their games (to my knowledge Blizzard hasnt done the 2nd, though I've heard stories of quite a few other companies), effen e-peen nonsense.

Anyway, item classes are just ways to group them. With the current content theres a decent setup since everyone knows you stop at 60. To use a DnD euphimism, once you break that level 60 level cap, your go into "Epic Levels" and the rules change, or at least they should.

[lemekim]

One problem: Artifacts are supposed to be one per server, I thought?  Legendaries, though not easy, are much too easy to be a "one per server" deal.
[right][snapback]108871[/snapback][/right]

I know Blizzard probably said that somewhere a long time ago, but they have changed their minds many times before. They can make it so that these Artifacts are even harder to complete then the current Legendaries to provide some balance, but I think Blizzard doesn't really embrace the idea of one item per server (how would one even go about implementing such a thing?)

[Crusader]

Also, it won't be simply '10 more levels' as we know it, there's a strong rumour around that every level takes something special, such as a quest, and some people are mentioning the long expected hero classes possibly making their entry, although no official word from blizzard exists on the point. I most certainly hope it's not 'just another 10 levels' but something special.

[Monkey]

One problem: Artifacts are supposed to be one per server, I thought?  Legendaries, though not easy, are much too easy to be a "one per server" deal.
[right][snapback]108871[/snapback][/right]

As far as I know, the current propaganda from BlizzardPR™ doesn't have any restrictions like that on Artifacts. I do recall reading that developers expressed that idea during Beta, but we can go back and pull quotes all day long about things talked about during Beta that were different in Retail. And if Blizzard is bumping the rainbow up so that Tier 7 (or whatever) is all legendaries, there's no reason that they'd have to keep artifacts clamped down to 1 per server. At the end of the day, the devs can really do anything they want.

For example, they could tell us that they new Alliance race will be "cool" "leafy" and "completely surprising" and then pop out some Draenei. ;)

[MongoJerry]

Also, it won't be simply '10 more levels' as we know it, there's a strong rumour around that every level takes something special, such as a  quest, and some people are mentioning the long expected hero classes possibly making their entry, although no official word from blizzard exists on the point. I most certainly hope it's not 'just another 10 levels' but something special.
[right][snapback]108928[/snapback][/right]

That sounds neat about the quests, if true. It's be nice if you couldn't simply grind your way to 70. Without such a system, I imagine a good portion of the player population would end up skipping a lot of the low-to-mid 60's content and would instead power level their way to 70 to get the uber loot.

Regarding hero classes, however, the devs said months ago that hero classes would not be introduced in this expansion. There will be additional talents introduced, however.

[oldmandennis]

That sounds neat about the quests, if true.  It's be nice if you couldn't simply grind your way to 70.  Without such a system, I imagine a good portion of the player population would end up skipping a lot of the low-to-mid 60's content and would instead power level their way to 70 to get the uber loot.
[right][snapback]108940[/snapback][/right]

Hmm....

To me, for the quests to be appropriatly epic, they need to be in Outland, probably ending a couple of them in Hellfire Citidel.

On the other hand, there is an epic quest to open the Dark portal that screams for portions to take place in Medivah's tower. Unfortunatly, that is a level 70 area.

[Threnody]

On the other hand, there is an epic quest to open the Dark portal that screams for portions to take place in Medivah's tower. 

I vaguely recall Tigole stating that the opening of the Dark Portal would be a world event that takes place shortly before the expansion goes live. If there is a quest line to start the event it will more than likely involve Naxxramas. Remember that Kel'thuzad is currently in possession of Medihv's spellbook.

[Raelynn]

I feel that there should be a little bit of everything in the game. There should be viable progressions for all types of gameplay: raiding, 5-man/solo, and pvp. Raiders should get primarily purples, with a sprinkling of legendaries and an extremely rare artifact. 5-man should be a step below with primarily blues, with some purples, and an extremely rare artifact. Solo again should be a step below, primarily greens with some (though this should be a bit more than the second level of the other two) blues, and a rare purple. Pvp is the tough part, in that it's harder to gauge the "effort" compared to the others. 20-man also is a bit harder, but it should probably be somewhere in between 5-man and 40-man stuff, half and half blues and purples with some rare better purples and possibly a legendary.

In all truth I feel that a lot of the complaint would be solved if there were dungeons and content currently in the game that led to higher ilevel greens and blues. Green and blue progression stops at ilevel 65 primarily for solo and 5-man, continuing for some 20-man stuff. 1-59 has a normal spread of green, blue, and purple and the gear gap really doesn't exist there, but at 60, since two levels of items disappear, the gear gap suddenly becomes a big deal.