Naxxramas Loot Spoilers

[oldmandennis]

To be fair, I don't think there any items out there that are optimized for the itemization formula for any class.
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I think I remember hearing them say that. There is more variety this way, rather then "This is the lvl 75 warrior DPS belt".

[Quark]

To be fair, I don't think there any items out there that are optimized for the itemization formula for any class.

True, but Blizzard is mostly ignoring what makes a cool Rogue item on sets while very rarely dabbling in it elsewise. AP and crit are what make a Rogue, and yet we're still waiting for a Rogue set item that has any straight AP on it. It's no coincidence that going from the best blues to the worst epics, while still an upgrade overall, nerfs your AP. Out of the blues, you have options that stack on AP and they are the best choice most of the time. Out of the epics, it seems any time they add AP it can't be a set item and it's likely to have +dodge on it (oh man, if Bonescythe had +dodge on it there'd be an uproar, believe me). Why?

Again, if this is a problem with values for stats ... change the values. Make it work. Instead, they give Rogues AP through indirect and more expensive means.

I am not sure as to the exact stats, but if we take for example warrior items, lots of DPS items have a large amount of strength on them (Onslaught Girdle, http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40573), and if instead of that strength they split it and used certain amount of +AP and certain amount of +STR, the item could be much better then it is now (to the tone of 14 additional AP for that particular belt).

Ironic choice. Due to warriors getting 2 AP per Str, this item is only 2 less AP and 9 less sta then Belt of Neverending Agony, ilvl 88 instead of 78. It's funny that the best Rogue belt in the game is 10 levels higher than a Warrior's offensive equivalent.

Someone mentioned, and the more I look at it, the more I share that feeling, is that if the items were indeed optimized for the formula, the players would be even more overpowered in relation to the new lvl 60s (and in part to the PvPers). The stats that could be achieved with perfectly optimized gear would be absolutely brutal. So Blizzard is basically "keeping the man down" artificially through exploitation of the itemization formulas, and lowering the speed of the weapons (e.g. the nerf of Death Sting, Dark Edge of Insanity).

Yes, I agree to that. I'm just annoyed that it can often be in the exact opposite direction. "Hey, let's put +dodge on Bloodfang!" "Let's put such a ridiculous amount of agility on this so it gets killed by ^1.5!"

They didn't artificially deflate Rogue blues in this manner (at least, not many of them). If they need to now, that means there's a flaw in the formula.

[Chesspiece_face]

Redemption is fantastic for heal botting and absolutely nothing else. Yay, back to being completely outclassed by everything in PVP, again.
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not only that, but am i the only one that thinks that set looks like go-go power ranger? wait... now i get it. Paladins were originally Gundam that came to azeroth in a trans-dimensional spaceship/castle.

[teske]

It's no coincidence that going from the best blues to the worst epics, while still an upgrade overall, nerfs your AP. 

And you think that's different for other classes?

The best blue heal equipment is actually on par with T1 in healing power. T1 adds survivability.

In fact with almost every T1 item I got, my +heal dimished.

Comparing my best blue equiped warlock equip to T1:
Blue:
195 spell damage (mostly only to shadow)
0% to hit
0% to crit

T1:
138 spell damage (shadow and fire)
1% hit
1% crit

The epic set adds tons of int/sta but reduces the damage per shadow bolt.

[Rinnhart]

not only that, but am i the only one that thinks that set looks like go-go power ranger?  wait...  now i get it.  Paladins were originally Gundam that came to azeroth in a trans-dimensional spaceship/castle.
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Yeah, it does look horrible.

[Mirajj]

Yeah, it does look horrible.
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At least you guys know what your set looks like, and what it's item stats are, and what all it's set bonuses are... ;)

[Rinnhart]

At least you guys know what your set looks like, and what it's item stats are, and what  all it's set bonuses are... ;)
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I'd rather not know.

[Quark]

It's also very easy to glaze over the fact that there are paladins happy about this, isn't it?

[Drasca]

Frostfire Circlet (mage):
+68 Damage/healing

Plagueheart Circlet (warlock):
+33 Damange/healing

It seems unlikely that the two helms will have such divergent item values when the dungeons are released.
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I summed both lock and mage sets +damage/healing, to hit, and +crit

Mage:
162 stam
186 int, or nearly 3k mana, and 14 int away from one more crit
'enough' spirit

342 dam
+4 hit
+6 crit

Lock:
214 stam
155 int, or around 2.3k mana, and 45 int away from one more crit
no spirit
292 dam
+3 hit
+7 crit

Technically more crit, but given +1 crit per 100 int, it is actually almost even crit and less to-hit.

Lock set bonuses are still completely lame and plagueheart looks: Ugly as hell. Are the guys approving artwork trying to drive people away from being locks? or are we all waiting on approval for legendary "hellfire" armor?

[Jarulf]

Is it just me, or has the game basically turned into a "release new dungeon with a new item set for each class". On top of that, make sure that to have a chance, people must first aquire all set items from previous dungeon and in addition, have items of this new resitsance not yet used which takes some time to farm ingredients for recipies so people can make items that have that resistance (makes it slightly longer until people can do well int eh dungeon).

Seems like a new item set, a bit better than the previous is all that there really is (and possible a new recpiei for a slightly larger bag tossed in or something similar). Not only do people end up in the same items, it makes for a very booring game. especially due to the almost completely non random item drops at higher levels. The only randomness is how many times you have to kill the boss to be lucky enough he drops the set item for YOUR class and the luck in competeing for it with all others of the same class as you.

[Bun-Bun]

Is it just me, or has the game basically turned into a "release new dungeon with a new item set for each class". On top of that, make sure that to have a chance, people must first aquire all set items from previous dungeon and in addition, have items of this new resitsance not yet used which takes some time to farm ingredients for recipies so people can make items that have that resistance (makes it slightly longer until people can do well int eh dungeon).

Seems like a new item set, a bit better than the previous is all that there really is (and possible a new recpiei for a slightly larger bag tossed in or something similar). Not only do people end up in the same items, it makes for a very booring game. especially due to the almost completely non random item drops at higher levels. The only randomness is how many times you have to kill the boss to be lucky enough he drops the set item for YOUR class and the luck in competeing for it with all others of the same class as you.
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It's not just you. I am clinging to the faint hope that they're incorporating everything else into the expansion. It's easier to bolt on extra dungeons with loot-lures inside than it is to generate world content.

[Drasca]

Is it just me, or has the game basically turned into a "release new dungeon with a new item set for each class". On top of that, make sure that to have a chance, people must first aquire all set items from previous dungeon
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Welcome to the world of traditional mmorpgs. That's exactly what the end game is until the game loses steam and breaks internally and competitive forces externally drive non-raider players elsewhere. There's only going to be more nonsense, not less post 60. While there may be more content, the value of gameplay may or may not go downhill for you.

Raiding will be fun for some people, but the PvP end, you'll simply be outclassed by better equipment, not skill or class design. For pure PvE'ers, that may be ok, but older content also becomes trivialized as MMO's move toward 'higher level' content.

Eventually, someone just does it better, or creates a newer better model of gameplay. Guild War's is one different model. The future MMO previews I've seen also face this challenge.

Enjoy it as long as you can, but if you don't like where this is going, you'll have to consider what you do and do not like about the game weighs against your time and state of mind, because this sort of thing only gets worse.

[Xanthix]

Is it just me, or has the game basically turned into a "release new dungeon with a new item set for each class".
...
Seems like a new item set, a bit better than the previous is all that there really is.
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I would humbly submit that you are missing something.

Sure, what you see in the previews is the new epic items, because that is what people get excited about - people like to gawk at cool items.

But IMHO the things they are adding with those items are new dungeons with new mechanics, new bosses with new abilities, new boss encounters that require new strategies, new quests and challenges, and so on. From a non-raiders perspective, maybe raiding is just "Kill big boss, get loot." But from many raiders' perspectives, raiding is about working as a team with friends to figure out how to beat a given encounter. It is an interactive team effort that requires strategy, tactics, and skill. You can see this from all the posts that are like, "After weeks of effort and many attempted strategies, my guild finally beat boss XYZ!"

So if you are in a good raiding guild, there is more to these updates than another tier of meaningless loot. For those not in a raiding guild, I admit it looks like there is less for them in 1.11, but I am hopeful the expansion will have a ton of stuff for them - new tradeskills, new zones and quests, 10 more levels, new talents, new gear, and new small-party instances.

[Rinnhart]

It's also very easy to glaze over the fact that there are paladins happy about this, isn't it?
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Don't even start. The paladins who only want to heal and the paladins who only want to melee are all fools. The class was designed to do both, the class should be able to do both, and our class sets should support that.

[Drasca]

It is an interactive team effort that requires strategy, tactics, and skill. [right][snapback]110150[/snapback][/right]

Bottom line, equipment. See the Ragnaros post for just one example. Bigger, faster guns trivialize their counterparts. Raiding can be enjoyable, but you cannot seperate 'better loot' from the WoW raiding game. Equipment is still a baseline requirement.

There are social benefits to a raiding guild. That's true. There's social costs too, but it's pointless to harp on either for individual experiences. The observation on the content cycle still holds true. Sometimes all you're doing is keeping up with the neighbors. You can boil down the game to that level, especially as old abilities become triviliazed along with old content.

[Skandranon]

Don't even start. The paladins who only want to heal and the paladins who only want to melee are all fools. The class was designed to do both, the class should be able to do both, and our class sets should support that.
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You know, it's acceptable for two reasonable people, neither fools, to disagree on something. You believe that the class should do both: that's perfectly fine and reasonable. I know a number of paladins who just want to heal and are happy doing it. Who are you to classify someone else's enjoyment of the game as foolish?

[oldmandennis]

1) Official T3 stats are up.

2) From the 8 piece hunter bonus

You feel no pity or remorse for those who fear your killing blows.

Who are hunters, Jean Claude Van Damm? I'm going to make a macro /y Have pity on the mob!! /y Show some remorse!! /y Can't you see they fear your killing blows! /sob

3) It does suck when set after set emphasizes the same aspect of supposedly hybrid play. Especially since it would be nice for a set with a bit of balance for the grind/questing up to level 70.

Shaman are actually way worse off in this respect. T1 - Pure Healbot. T2 mostly Elemental, but with healing bonuses. T2.5 fairly well balanced. Too bad its only 5 pieces. T3 - Pure Healbot. Pally : T1 healbot with some balanced stats/bonues. T2 Pretty balanced. T2.5 Pretty balanced. T3 Pure Healbot.

[Mirajj]

Hm, Hunter set finally up.

Looks = Interesting. I like the addition of the glowing eyes on the helmet. Shoulders aren't way out nuts or overstated. Muted colors that work well together. Looks = Good.

Stats = Agi upgrades all over the place. Surv hunters are going to be happy. +mana/sec. Very nice. +Crit/+hit. Great balance of stats, indeed. Stats = Good.

Bonuses
2pc = Rapid Fire + 4 seconds. Impression = Meh.

4 pc = Reduces Multi/Aimed cost by 20mana = Step in the right direction, to be sure.

6 pc = Ranged Crit hit gives you 50man = Awesome. Keep this kind of bonus up!

8 pc = Pet dies, +25% speed for 15 seconds. = WTF?!? Please STOP with the gorram pet bonuses on armor. I know that pets need work, but find some other way to make them more useful than having incredibly inane bonuses taking up valuable slots. And for this to work, we have to sacrifice them? If we are going to have to sacrifice our pets, why not make it useful? Say +20dps to your bow until the pet is rezzed. Or maybe +50RAP until pet is rezzed.

Geez, please Blizz...stop it with the BM happy armor sets already. CS is a good step in the right direction, but that 8pc bonus is an utter joke.

[Kevin]

Hm, Hunter set finally up.

Looks = Interesting. I like the addition of the glowing eyes on the helmet. Shoulders aren't way out nuts or overstated. Muted colors that work well together. Looks = Good.

Stats = Agi upgrades all over the place. Surv hunters are going to be happy. +mana/sec. Very nice. +Crit/+hit. Great balance of stats, indeed. Stats = Good.

Bonuses
2pc = Rapid Fire + 4 seconds. Impression = Meh.

4 pc = Reduces Multi/Aimed cost by 20mana = Step in the right direction, to be sure.

6 pc = Ranged Crit hit gives you 50man = Awesome. Keep this kind of bonus up!

8 pc = Pet dies, +25% speed for 15 seconds. = WTF?!? Please STOP with the gorram pet bonuses on armor. I know that pets need work, but find some other way to make them more useful than having incredibly inane bonuses taking up valuable slots. And for this to work, we have to sacrifice them? If we are going to have to sacrifice our pets, why not make it useful? Say +20dps to your bow until the pet is rezzed. Or maybe +50RAP until pet is rezzed.

Geez, please Blizz...stop it with the BM happy armor sets already. CS is a good step in the right direction, but that 8pc bonus is an utter joke.
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Eh the 8 piece bonus isn't a beastmaster bonus, it's a marks and survival bonus. Shooting faster = more damage. That plus rapid fire + quiver is like 80% attack speed bonus. So a 3.2 speed attack speed weapon is shooting every .64 seconds. So in that 15 second time you can get off 23 normal shots. As opposed to the 5.5 shots you could have gotten off with just a quiver. Don't tell me that isn't s boost. Those 1% wipes don't happen with a hunter or two doing this. And I'm a little afriad of a troll hunter that will eat a demonic rune, sac the pet, and hit rapid fire (eat the rune to be more injured to get even more of a speed bonus).

I do agree that the beast master bonus on the armor is even pretty suspect for a beastmaster build. I've got a beast master hunter, I use my pet effectively in ZG, AQ and all the other instances, but even I look at the extra crits, or damage or pet health as pretty crappy stats. I see nothing on the T3 set that is aimed at helping a beastmaster build. As mentioned the sacrifice gives the marks and survival hunters something to do with thier pet that is usually not out or just sitting by them during raids. I thinkyou are underestimating speed increases for hunter damage.

[castille]

hahahaha, I just noticed that priests get little emo/goth wings.

Beautiful.

I like the warlock set. It really makes them otherworldly, and distant to the smooth, coordinated looks of all the other sets. They are, by canon, supposed to be a distinct caste, seperated from the rest of the society, and this visually reinforces it.