A Warrior Destined For Hell

[Zingydex]

So far, in act one nightmare I've been able to handle 3+ boss mobs at one time. I jump right in the middle of everyone ....

This tactic might be doable in NM, but it will NEVER cut it in Hell. The difference between monster strength in the two difficulties is astronomical. Even super healing potions don't keep up with Hell monster damage output, and IIRC stun times are reduced as well. Without higher-end gear, even ranged/caster characters have a lot of trouble; melee-range characters might as well forget it if facing the same handicap.

[Thenryb]

This tactic might be doable in NM, but it will NEVER cut it in Hell. The difference between monster strength in the two difficulties is astronomical. Even super healing potions don't keep up with Hell monster damage output, and IIRC stun times are reduced as well. Without higher-end gear, even ranged/caster characters have a lot of trouble; melee-range characters might as well forget it if facing the same handicap.

Ashock's post was referring to the wonderful experience which awaits you on hell difficulty, not nightmare. Hell is where tough guy turns into dead guy.

[MonTy]

Hail all,

I approve of Nightmare difficulty. I am glad to say it has brought me much luck, and my equipment has improved dramatically without even finishing act 1 yet.

Old Damage Stats (After finishing Normal Difficulty):

Concentrate Damage (Without Poison): 51 - 143
Concentrate Damage (With Poison): 111 - 206

New Damage Stats (Before finishing Act 1 NM):

Concentrate Damage (Without Poison): 191 - 455
Concentrate Damage (With Poison): 250 - 516

It's amazing what a bunch of Countess runs can do for your character. Here's my current gear:

Head:
Lore
+1 To All Skill Levels
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Lightning Resist +30%
Damage Reduced By 7
+2 To Light Radius

Old Head Gear:
Lizard's Jawbone Cap of Brilliance
+7 to Energy
+5 to Mana
+3 to Battle Cry
+2 to Iron Skin

Left Hand:
Bitter Mar - Ancient Sword
One Hand Sword: 34-92 Damage
+91% Enhanced Damage
+18 to Attack Rating
+10 to Maximum Damage
Adds 9-25 cold damage over 3 seconds
7% Life stolen per hit

Old Left Hand:
Bone Hew - Gladius
One Hand Sword: 12 - 33 Damage
+51% Enchanted Damage
+16 Attack Rating
Adds 1-4 Fire Damage
6% Life Stolen Per Hit
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit

Chest:
Tancred's Spine
256 Defense
+40 to Life
+15 to Strength

Old Chest:
Isenhart's Case
186 Defense
Magic Damage Reduced by 2

Shield:
Rhyme
20% Increased Chance of Blocking
40% Faster Block Rate
All Resistances +25
Regenerate Mana 15%
Cannot Be Frozen
50% Extra Gold From Monsters
25% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items

Old Shield:
Steelclash
58% Chance to Block
+25% Increased Chance of Blocking
Damage Reduced by 3
All Resistances +15
+3 to Light Radius
20% Faster Block

Glove:
Sander's Taboo
+40 to Life
Adds 8-10 poison damage over 3 seconds
20% Increased Attack Speed

Belt:
Ocher Plated Belt of the Mammoth
+40 to Life
Lightning Resist +14%

Boot:
Gorefoot
2% Mana Stolen Per Hit
Attacker Takes Damage of 2
20% Faster Run / Walk
+2 to Leap

Amulet:
Rainbow Amulet of the Bat
All Resistances +10
3% Mana Stolen Per Hit

Ring #1:
Eagle Loop
+1 to Energy
+31 to Mana
+119 to Attack Rating
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
Lightning Resist +5%
4% Life stolen per hit

Old Ring #1:
Corruption Hold
Lightning Resist +25%
4% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+1 Mana Stolen After Each Kill
10% Chance to Cast Level 3 Nova When Struck

Ring #2:
Plague Band
+5 to Strength
+63 to Mana
+5 to Minimum Damage
10% Chance to cast Level 3 Charged Bolt when struck

Old Ring #2:
Wyrm's Ring of Regeneration
+46 to Mana
Replenish Life +4

I am happy with how I obtained my current rare exceptional sword. I was reading over the Horadric Cube recipes, and I noticed the recipe that can upgrade a normal rare weapon to a exceptional rare weapon. A light went off in my head... Since I have the materials, why don't I just gamble War Swords untill I get a decent one, then upgrade it?... Well, I am very happy to say it only took me about ten minutes of gambling to get that sword. Extremely lucky, I know, and I sure needed it.

The Countess has died enough times for one day, time to set up a date with Andariel.

-MonTy

[Zingydex]

That gear setup looks to be extremely shy on resists, even for Nightmare. Your fire and lightning res scores especially need to be in the 60s or 70s (after the difficulty penalty) if you don't want to get eaten alive by the higher-end enemies.

[Ashock]

Hail Ashock,

Well I certainly don't want to be a "screaming schoolgirl upon seeing a boss pack", and from your stated experience I do not doubt your advice. It just seems like a matter of patience and how you approach the fight.

So far, in act one nightmare I've been able to handle 3+ boss mobs at one time. I jump right in the middle of everyone, and I stun, battle cry, stun, kill bosses, stun, etc... To me this is not quite the "screaming schoolgirl" technique that you stated. I am jumping right in the middle of 12+ mobs, me tough guy, not schoolgirl.

I also understand you said I would get through act 1 and 2 without problems, so I am taking that into consideration. I'll let you know how the later acts pan out. I am hoping for a bit of luck with my item drops. If I don't find those few must have items, it'll be a lot tougher. Either way, I will get through this game. Thanks for the advice and elaborating more.

-MonTy

1) Approach it any way you like. Get to Act 2 Hell first though.

2) See 1), tough guy.

3) Reread my post. As pointed out by ThenryB already, I was referring to Hell.


When 1.10 was beta testing, I like many others downloaded their public beta patch. I got though Act1 Hell at around lvl 72-74 without huge difficulties. Once act2 rolled around, it was highly unpleasant. It was either boredom or death, or both. I finally got very bored, so decided to get to act 3, so I could buy a cruel elite sword. I ran through Act 2 with many deaths. Iirc, it took me about 30 min to clear the room leading to Duriel's chamber, as it had ghosts. Once I got to act 3, I bought a cruel sword. It did not get much better, so I quit playing that character. This was SP of course, so no trading naturally.

Enjoy your Barb...... while you can.


Edit: I was looking at your post about gear. Here's something to keep in mind. It is nice that you had the runes to upgrade your normal exceptional sword. To upgrade to elite, you need an UM. GL getting that in SP. If you do get it, I suggest saving it for a rare with at least +280% damage. You might have a chance then... or not.

With you current sword, you are probably thinking that if your upgrades jump in quality between Nite and Hell like they jumped between Norm and Nite, you do not see how many think that this is so difficult. Life is good now and you do not see how it will get *that* much worse.


It will.



-A

[Occhidiangela]

Enjoy your Barb...... while you can.
Edit: I was looking at your post about gear. Here's something to keep in mind. It is nice that you had the runes to upgrade your normal exceptional sword. To upgrade to elite, you need an UM. GL getting that in SP. If you do get it, I suggest saving it for a rare with at least +280% damage. You might have a chance then... or not.

With you current sword, you are probably thinking that if your upgrades jump in quality between Nite and Hell like they jumped between Norm and Nite, you do not see how many think that this is so difficult. Life is good now and you do not see how it will get *that* much worse.
It will.
-A

The gap.

A number of folks talk about "the gap" between decent weapons and truly devastating weapons. What he needs is an ethereal Phase Blade (not a common drop) with at the least five sockets, with which to make Honor. That is a low end rune word, comparatively, against which to smash up the Hell Critters to whom patch 1.10 gave a healthy HP bonus. While the Synergies helped the spell casters in some ways, they seemed to me to do less for the non spell casters, unless one had specific (+200% damage to demons, for example on top of healthy damage stats) weapons, or specific hard to make rune words.

As badly as SP and MP diverged before 1.10, the split got worse in 1.10. The synergistic effects of even one partner with a merc is profoundly manifested in 1.10.

Occhi

[MonTy]

Hail Zingydex,

Thanks for the notice. I'm keeping the resists a bit low for act 1 and 2, but I'm going to up my fire and lightning resist in act 3 and up. Although my resist aren't that low, here they are:

Fire: 45
Cold: 45
Lightning: 64
Poison: 56

Like you stated, I'll definitely need higher resists, which I'll try and get in time for act 3.

[MonTy]

Hail Ashock,

It's good to know what will be required in order to tackle hell, and thanks to everyones comments atleast I know what will be in store for me. Like I've said in my other post, I do not doubt your information, only that you say the game will get "boring". Fortunately whether or not the game gets boring is a matter of opinion.

Cheers,
MonTy

[MonTy]

This tactic might be doable in NM, but it will NEVER cut it in Hell. The difference between monster strength in the two difficulties is astronomical. Even super healing potions don't keep up with Hell monster damage output, and IIRC stun times are reduced as well. Without higher-end gear, even ranged/caster characters have a lot of trouble; melee-range characters might as well forget it if facing the same handicap.

Hail Zingydex,

I just wanted to let you know the stun duration for War Cry is not reduced in Nightmare or Hell (from what I've read). I made sure of that before I built this character.

Take care,
-MonTy

[Hammerskjold]

>A number of folks talk about "the gap" between decent weapons and truly devastating weapons. What he needs is an ethereal Phase Blade (not a common drop) with at the least five sockets, with which to make Honor.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, or if the latest patch has changed things. But iirc a normal\socketed Phase Blade can never spawn as an ethereal. Unless you meant ugprading an ethereal rare crystal sword\dimensional blade (Or a Ginthers Rift unique dimensional) into a Phase Blade.

[Occhidiangela]

>A number of folks talk about "the gap" between decent weapons and truly devastating weapons. What he needs is an ethereal Phase Blade (not a common drop) with at the least five sockets, with which to make Honor.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, or if the latest patch has changed things. But iirc a normal\socketed Phase Blade can never spawn as an ethereal. Unless you meant ugprading an ethereal rare crystal sword\dimensional blade (Or a Ginthers Rift unique dimensional) into a Phase Blade.

Good point, I thought ethereal Phase Blades could spawn, however, I am more than happy to stand corrected. My brain had considered "ethereal phase blade drops" and "socket quest" but I did not specify, so my error, possibly twice. :unsure:

Occhi

[Ashock]

Hail Ashock,

It's good to know what will be required in order to tackle hell, and thanks to everyones comments atleast I know what will be in store for me. Like I've said in my other post, I do not doubt your information, only that you say the game will get "boring". Fortunately whether or not the game gets boring is a matter of opinion.

Cheers,
MonTy

I think you misunderstood me. This is not "what's required". This is "what might give you a chance in hell".

I suppose if you go s/s and Concentrate all the way, you might get somewhere, sometime this year. I find that painfully tedious and boring, because frankly, how shall I put this..... it *is*. If you like that sort of action, then you're in luck.

BTW, if you like going s/s, try a Zealot. He is the only other type of character in D2 that I've had decent experience with (I had 2 low 90's Zealots), and he is viable in Hell, even pure. Not strong, but viable.


I have played 4 character classes through Hell in D2. I have no experience with Assasins, Druids or Necros. Out of all of them, a pure Barb is by far the weakest of the group. When 1.11 rolled out, the character that I saw the least of by far was a Barb. Later on, as some people got decent Barb items, some Barbs were seen here and there. See, most on Bnet just want to crush things. The fact that the Barb is one of the least common characters, should tell you something. You could say that these are just kids playing who want god mode. In some cases, you'd be right. However, there are some very skilled people out there, whatever their age is. If a Barb was weak but viable pure, it'd be fine. Anyway, you'll find out for yourself.

In any case, if you don't have high expectations, you won't be dissapointed.


-A

[MonTy]

Hail Ashock,

Yea, I've stated before I don't mind the drawn out gameplay. I like to pick a build and play it, no matter the difficulties. My posts are aimed to be a documentary of my character, not the effectiveness of his play through Hell. I enjoy reading all comments and thoughts, and yours have been very informative, thanks.

-MonTy

[MonTy]

Hail Occhi and Hammerskjold,

I've recently just picked up a might merc to help out my damage output. I felt like I had enough control with my war cry that I didn't need my ice mercenary from act 3. Do you think this is a mistake? Will my one handed swords have enough damage to be efficient with might, or should I stick with more control for hell. Also, is the cold aura from the merc in Act 2 better than the Act 3 Ice Mercenary for control?

Thanks,
MonTy

[Occhidiangela]

Hail Occhi and Hammerskjold,

I've recently just picked up a might merc to help out my damage output. I felt like I had enough control with my war cry that I didn't need my ice mercenary from act 3. Do you think this is a mistake? Will my one handed swords have enough damage to be efficient with might, or should I stick with more control for hell. Also, is the cold aura from the merc in Act 2 better than the Act 3 Ice Mercenary for control?

Thanks,
MonTy

Well, since you are using the Warcry for crowd control, the Might aura will give both you, and your merc, a much needed damage boost. If you can find Crushing Blow equipment for your Merc, good! Your problems with Physical Immunes won't be trivial to solve, which situation would make me tip toward the Act 3 Cold Merc being a decent choice. My Conc merc, built 1.08, does badly in Hell, except when he can Berserk.

Occhi

[Hammerskjold]

>I've recently just picked up a might merc to help out my damage output. I felt like I had enough control with my war cry that I didn't need my ice mercenary from act 3. Do you think this is a mistake? Will my one handed swords have enough damage to be efficient with might, or should I stick with more control for hell. Also, is the cold aura from the merc in Act 2 better than the Act 3 Ice Mercenary for control?


Iirc, the desert merc holy freeze aura won't have any effect on certain monsters, some of the minotaur class if my memory isn't completely shot. Frenzytaurs I think. But the slow effect is pretty good, as long as you're ok with the risk of the pulse activating more monsters. The Ice mage can chill\freeze most things, but cold immunes will be a problem. Overall the act 2 Cold merc is usually more efficient imo, considering he can also jab things to death with a decent polearm\spear, vs the cold mage who is purely elemental. (I've heard he can swing the sword occasionally, but it's so rare and I've yet to see it for myself that it might as well not exist for most practical purposes.) It doesn't mean act 2 mercs are the absolute best bar none, it just means he's versatile and can be a good fit for a lot of characters and builds. But since you're playing the latest patch, switching mercs if you don't like your current one shouldn't be a big problem.

My 2 cents on 1.10+ Barbarians, while it's still possible to do some insane physical\magical damage, raw damage dealing is no longer his strongest skill. Melee combat in general is more dangerous. To me in 1.10+ the Barb is less the typical head crushing-melee enforcer, but more of a riot police officer, what with his crowd control\dispersal skills. The reason I brought it up is I was curious when I read this:

>(1) - Howl (Not Using)

Unless you're under a self imposed restriction\rule, I recommend trying it out. Howl, along with Taunt and Battle Cry 1 point wonders you listed are the most useful crowd skills for almost all the 1.10+ Barbarians I've played. Even with a high damage, high defense setup getting mobbed (especially in Hell mode) or plinked with ranged elemental attacks is usually deadly. War Cry is very useful for stunning, but at high skill level the mana cost can be fairly high for a Barbarian (especially a barb whose not an exclusive Singer) to keep up for long. You can and most likely have done the War cry, leach some mana back and whack stunned critters with Conc, WCry again, etc. Or having an Echoing or +Mana weapons on the switch, then switch back to Conc\Berserk, but there are times where a lower mana Howl or Taunt will be needed instead.

In any case, good luck and bring on the updates and experiences of your Concentrator.

[librarian]

Heiho,

...
I have played 4 character classes through Hell in D2. I have no experience with Assasins, Druids or Necros. Out of all of them, a pure Barb is by far the weakest of the group. When 1.11 rolled out, the character that I saw the least of by far was a Barb. Later on, as some people got decent Barb items, some Barbs were seen here and there. See, most on Bnet just want to crush things. The fact that the Barb is one of the least common characters, should tell you something. You could say that these are just kids playing who want god mode. In some cases, you'd be right. However, there are some very skilled people out there, whatever their age is.

you're right, at least in parts regarding party play. Where blizz nerfed the Necro along with 1.09 and all that 'cast very useful curse on strike' business and made that class nearly obsolete they didn't learn from this mistake but repeated it to make the classes of Paladin and Barb a bad joke, what with giving their most party friendly skills out to anyone virtually rich enough or unscrupulous enough not to mind thei sorces of items.
We're talking SP here.

I think with Patch 1.10 blizz people already had too much WoW gameplay in mind, so they restricted the melee classes, especially the Barb, to a simple blocking function ('pull Aggro' or whatever they call it in WoW). Giving their most party valuable skills out of that classes' hands (CtA anyone? Aura when equipped?) made them unattractive. IMHO _that_ is the reason why you don't see many Barbs around anymore.

You mentioned a BotD weapon one of your Barbs got finally and that being 'just ok, but not Uber'. IMHO this _is_ a typical kiddie weapon, regardless of player's age. Does high figures of raw damage, a lot of funky graphical lagging, and renders the uttermost important Cry a Barb can use for offensive purposes - Battle Cry - helpless due to NHD issues with the casted PN and its very special setting of NHD. I've seen Barbs with that weapon cutting through everything in their way not due to their player skill but due to raw damage and the favorized tactic of running at the next enemy and slashing him while ignoring all other enemies. This is hireling's behaviour, not player's.
In SP for designated melee classes a Honor elite weapon marks the low end of a hell viable melee weapon, at least if you're accompaigned by a Mighty Merc.

And I tell you that based on a physical DaggerNec wearing a low cruel Mithril Point, who was buid during 1.09 and reactivated several times in 1.1x just to see how it works.

I've recently just picked up a might merc to help out my damage output. I felt like I had enough control with my war cry that I didn't need my ice mercenary from act 3. Do you think this is a mistake? Will my one handed swords have enough damage to be efficient with might, or should I stick with more control for hell. Also, is the cold aura from the merc in Act 2 better than the Act 3 Ice Mercenary for control?

The Ice Wolf is just ok to keep single opponents or very small groups under control. The area control of a Holy Freezing guy is much better. Still I think the Mighty guy is your best choice, because you definitively lack damage. The Barb has crowd control of his own, War Cry, Howl, Taunt, and maybe Leap as well, not to mention seldom used ones like Grim Ward.

I'd also second Hammer's opinion on Howl. Against ranged attackers you'll need Howl and Taunt, because especially in mixed enemy groupings you can't WC them at your ease. Unless you Leap at them, but this brings problems of undefeated melee warriors on your backside.

[Ashock]

You mentioned a BotD weapon one of your Barbs got finally and that being 'just ok, but not Uber'. IMHO this _is_ a typical kiddie weapon, regardless of player's age. Does high figures of raw damage, a lot of funky graphical lagging, and renders the uttermost important Cry a Barb can use for offensive purposes - Battle Cry - helpless due to NHD issues with the casted PN and its very special setting of NHD. I've seen Barbs with that weapon cutting through everything in their way not due to their player skill but due to raw damage and the favorized tactic of running at the next enemy and slashing him while ignoring all other enemies. This is hireling's behaviour, not player's.

The reason that I stress the "just ok" factor is that a BOTD is *the* weapon. It is *supposed* to make you "uber", since it is extremely difficult to get, and in SP pretty much impossible. With this weapon, my Barbs were basically on par with my Zealots who were using things like Nord's Tenderizer to start with and Heaven's Light later on which are much easier to get. Hell, you could probably even get them in SP. That makes no sense to me. The most powerful weapon in the game allows Barbs to be on par with Zealots that use mediocre weapons? One of my Pallys had Schaffer's and he was more powerful than a BOTD Barb.... Barbs are supposed to be kings of melee, aren't they? I guess between the time the original manuals for the game came out and 1.10-1.11, Blizz employees forgot what the manual said.

As far as BOTD being a kiddie weapon.... In Bnet play, you can't play a Barb like you would in solo, scattering mobs all over the place. Sorcs and others get pissed off. Try doing a Baal run with that. It's like a difference between a warrior who telekills and one who corners ranged attackers in D1. Only one is really efficient when playing with others. Besides, where is the fun factor? By the time you kill one monster with Conc, the rest are already dead. I suppose you could paint your house and watch the paint dry for a similar experience and you would be doing something useful... hmm. Maybe it's worth a shot after all....



-A

[librarian]

Heiho,

yes, as I wrote, I'm with you when it comes to comparing Barbs with other classes and especially comparing them in a party. This is a very sad issue, and I ranted already a lot about it.
1.1x _the_ party patch? Pull another one it's got bells on it :-P

If one of the favorized mainstream caster builds is at your back you're just another blocker. Further there is no such threat to casters like to melees (IM anyone? Don't mention Blood Mana, since it is far too easy to neglect). Also the already in 1.09 Uber hirelings from Act2 were made even more caster friendly due to their possible equip. If you say BotD you'll also have to face Infinity.

If you want the taste of the RPG part in this game, you'll have to go solo. With a strong build you can manage it in big games (or using /players xx command), with a weak build you'll have to restrict to pure single play.

[Hammerskjold]

>As far as BOTD being a kiddie weapon.... In Bnet play, you can't play a Barb like you would in solo, scattering mobs all over the place. Sorcs and others get pissed off.


Well yeah. I agree with you if you mean there are builds and skills that loses or gains their strength depending on the type of setting, solo or multi. But in the context of the original topic and poster (he sounds like he's playing mostly solo offline SP), what's the beef exactly?