How to return from a long slumber.

[Zingydex]

CE blows up a monster corpse and does a variable percentage of that monster's base life in damage (half physical and half fire) to other nearby monsters. I'd use it sparingly unless you can count on a steady stream of mana replenishment (either lots of potions or a Meditation aura from somewhere), as it can drain your mana in nothing flat until you reach high character levels.

I'd focus a bit more on skeleton warriors until they're maxed out, since they're what makes a summoner tick these days. Mages, revives, and golems all do supplemental damage, but it's the warriors (in tandem with the occasional CE blast) that get most of the kills - and for that matter keep most of the monsters off your pasty hide.

Pretty much every curse is worth one point; the only ones that get any real benefit from increased skill levels are Lower Resist and Dim Vision.

On the subject of revives ... well, it's not so much that the revives themselves have been nerfed as the monsters' abilities have been changed. Monsters have far more health relative to the damage they inflict than in 1.0x, and they also tend to be highly resistant or immune to their own damage type. This is also why Iron Maiden (along with other damage-reflectors) has lost most of its value.

[librarian]

Heiho,

Angel' date='Jul 26 2006, 09:04 PM' post='114561']
Seriously, do you Basiners do this professionally? I am in awe! :wub:

I'm in fact a Lurker far longer than a Basiner. IIRC there were some Server changes and I've at least one time reregistered here, maybe two times :-D

I will look through my skills-list and see if there's any skill fitting the abbreviation "CE". I'll max that along with skeleton/skel warrior/skel mastery.
...
edit: Ah!! "Corpse Explosion":P

I beg your pardon. Sometimes I still get carried away. You definitively wouldn't want to see some of my postings from the past, especially in the German Forum :-)

I'll just need to figure out which order to do them.

Like I said, first Raise Skeleton, then Mastery. Not only you get more Skeletons earlier this way, but they improve also better in early stage when Raise Skeleton itself is pushed instead of Mastery.
Of course goal is maxing out both, on the long run it doesn't matter anymore.

[Assur]

Like I said, first Raise Skeleton, then Mastery. Not only you get more Skeletons earlier this way, but they improve also better in early stage when Raise Skeleton itself is pushed instead of Mastery.
Of course goal is maxing out both, on the long run it doesn't matter anymore.

IIRC the people over at the Necro forum of the AB workrd out that the optimal setup for a Summoner is to put one point in Skeleton Mastery for every three points in Raise Skeleton.

[[wcip]Angel]

Hi!

Just finished normal diff with my lvl 31 Necro. I maxed skeleton and I've put 6-7 points in mage and 6-7 points in mastery.

I discovered that this is quite a fun character to play and quite different from what I'm used to. I found that my skeletons need some serious beefing up. It took a while to finish of the last wave of Baal's minions.

I have no idea what I'm going to do against the Nightmare Act bosses. I *really* struggled with Duriel, Diablo and Baal. Skeletons are too weak and don't survive long enough to do any damage. I found I had to buy a bow and fire 600-800 arrows into Diablo before he fell. Took forever.

What do necros do against act bosses? Sure, when I get my gear up and runnning and my merc becomes impervious to physical harm (thinking primarily of dmg red%), he'll probably toe to toe with them. But what me? Is there anything I can do?

As for gear, most of what I have is crap. I'm using the Isenhart set (without the shield)

Edit: Next character will probably be a barbarian. I'm thinking about making one regular fighter and one MF-barb. Any tips on skills allocation?

[Assur]

Angel' date='Jul 30 2006, 06:05 PM' post='114817']
Hi!

Just finished normal diff with my lvl 31 Necro. I maxed skeleton and I've put 6-7 points in mage and 6-7 points in mastery.

I discovered that this is quite a fun character to play and quite different from what I'm used to. I found that my skeletons need some serious beefing up. It took a while to finish of the last wave of Baal's minions.

I have no idea what I'm going to do against the Nightmare Act bosses. I *really* struggled with Duriel, Diablo and Baal. Skeletons are too weak and don't survive long enough to do any damage. I found I had to buy a bow and fire 600-800 arrows into Diablo before he fell. Took forever.

What do necros do against act bosses? Sure, when I get my gear up and runnning and my merc becomes impervious to physical harm (thinking primarily of dmg red%), he'll probably toe to toe with them. But what me? Is there anything I can do?

As for gear, most of what I have is crap. I'm using the Isenhart set (without the shield)

You're using Isenharts on a Necro:wacko:

That is certainly unusual! All I can say is that my Necros never had any problems. For dealing with Lister&Co: Hit them with Decrepify and when the first one is down spam CE. I usually hire an Act 2 Merc (Combat) for the prayer aura and switch him for an Act 2 Might Merc in Nightmare. As the Merc levels up his aura grows stronger and your Skellies do more damage. Always look if you can buy better wands, you can use a +3 all summoning skills wand at level 45.

Skellies and the right curse at the right time, plus CE, turn Necros into real killing machines, it's the reason that after a ladder reset half of all new chars are Necros.

[[wcip]Angel]

Thanks!:)

The thing is, by maxing skel+mastery and having spent a few on mages, I'll need to be lvl 50 before I can put my first point into CE.. That's late NM/early Hell if I remember correctly.. I suppose I'll need to boost my skels with +skill-gear and a might-merc. Even so, I don't see my babies doing a lot of dmg in NM... ah well, time will tell.:)First up is a barbarian. Last time I played one, I power-levelled him to 76 in 5 hours, equipped him and never played him again. I'll try to have a bit more fun with him this time around;)

edit: concerning my barbarian. I'm going with frenzy. (Always done WW in the past). Which weapon class is best suited? I know WW requires range (polearm/spear-class), but is there any reason I should avoid swords with frenzy? What about dual-wielding? Is it worth it? Which weapon class is best suited for frenzy? (The reason I'm asking you instead of reading the guides provided earlier in the thread is because the AB is down)

edit#2: When I make runewords with barb-helmets, will the +skills disappear orhttp://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/style_images/LLMain/loading.gif will they be on the runeword?

[Assur]

Angel' date='Jul 31 2006, 02:12 PM' post='114852']
Thanks!:)

The thing is, by maxing skel+mastery and having spent a few on mages, I'll need to be lvl 50 before I can put my first point into CE.. That's late NM/early Hell if I remember correctly.. I suppose I'll need to boost my skels with +skill-gear and a might-merc. Even so, I don't see my babies doing a lot of dmg in NM... ah well, time will tell.:)First up is a barbarian. Last time I played one, I power-levelled him to 76 in 5 hours, equipped him and never played him again. I'll try to have a bit more fun with him this time around;)

edit: concerning my barbarian. I'm going with frenzy. (Always done WW in the past). Which weapon class is best suited? I know WW requires range (polearm/spear-class), but is there any reason I should avoid swords with frenzy? What about dual-wielding? Is it worth it? Which weapon class is best suited for frenzy? (The reason I'm asking you instead of reading the guides provided earlier in the thread is because the AB is down)

edit#2: When I make runewords with barb-helmets, will the +skills disappear or will they be on the runeword?

Hi

Are you playing SP or online?SC or HC? You seem to be running through the game much faster than I do:oFrenzy barbs are usually sword or mace. There are so many good Swords/runewords, most maces have no Dex reqs so you can pump Vitality more. What you need for Frenzy builds is Warcry so that the monsters get stunned and cant slice you up. If you put a runeword in a nonmagical barbhelmet which already has +skills you will keep the skills in addition to what the runeword gives you.

P.S. Don't forget to put a few points in Berzerk for the PIs.

[[wcip]Angel]

Realm, Ladder, Softcore, Europe. I don't clear every area... might account for my speed.:)
Thanks for the tips!

[Zingydex]

Angel' date='Jul 31 2006, 03:49 PM' post='114863']
Realm, Ladder, Softcore, Europe. I don't clear every area... might account for my speed.:)
Thanks for the tips!

Well, you might want to slow down a little; taking on late NM/early Hell monsters around level 50 in 1.1x will get you massacred, no ifs, ands, or buts.

[[wcip]Angel]

I'll take that into consideration:)

I traversed the desert towards Lut Gholein with my barbarian today. I still haven't used any skill points. I think I've confused berserk with frenzy (or vice versa). Which is the better skill to use?

[Munkay]

Angel' date='Aug 2 2006, 03:10 PM' post='115001']
I'll take that into consideration:)

I traversed the desert towards Lut Gholein with my barbarian today. I still haven't used any skill points. I think I've confused berserk with frenzy (or vice versa). Which is the better skill to use?

It's been a while since I've played a high level barb - since blizzard apparently dislikes the idea of the melee heavy class actually being proficient at melee - but the determinant factor will be equipment and style of play.

Beserk is a slower more methodical kind of play, which is in essence just whacking everything in sight with a big stick. I had a beserker back in 1.10 that was incredibly strong, and could even do solo baal runs on Hell with little difficulty. 1.11 Ladder play tipped the scales against melee, so I'm rather certain this build doesn't fair as well as it used to.

Frenzy on the other hand is like playing with ADD. Your character moves incredibly fast, and you spend your time stringing one monster hit to the next, playing off the frenzy boosts that come after each successive hit. It appears that Frenzy barbs are just as popular, if not more popular than beserker barbs these days (I just started playing on USEast again in the last month, so my understanding of end game is still a bit limited).

Frenzy barbs dual wield high damage 1h weaps such as 1h axes. Beserker barbs have a bit more freedom, but at least in 1.10 they were mostly sword wielders due to their increased speed (and the ability to wield a stormshield when needed).

More than stylistic concerns, it's important to note some oddities about Beserk. Beserk converts melee damage to Magic Damage. This can be a big plus since there are almost no Magic Immune monsters in Hell (except for Achmel and his mummy summoning bretheren). On the downside, while attacking your barb is reduced to zero armor. Armor issues aside, the biggest disadvantage is Beserk can't leech.

A fellow lounger on USEast found a good way to counteract both of these problems, the warcry 'War Cry'. The skill stuns the surrounding monsters long enough to kill safely. By using War Cry he was able to pull off a hell baal solo run in 1.10 with only using 1 super healing potion and no leeching attacks. The alternative to using War Cry is to put concentrate on left click. Concentrate works as a 1 point wonder (and a pre-req for) beserker builds. The chance to be uninterupted helps when a mob has surrounded you. Whenever your orb gets low alternating a concentrate attack here and there keeps both orbs full. Other solutions I've seen involved using WW to leech.

As for the pro's and cons of frenzy, I'll leave that up to a more experienced lounger.

If your style of play is fast paced (as it seems to be from a few of your posts), it may be worth logging into a few barb channels/high level games and asking barbs what skills they use. Most people won't be very helpful, but a majority of them will at least grunt out some very helpful tidbits.

Cheers,

Munk

[[wcip]Angel]

Great tips, Munkay!:)Much appreciated!

Questions:

1. It seems Berserk is the way to go as many monsters are immune to physical attacks in Hell diff. All are 50% resistant if I remember correctly. How does Frenzy-people kill PIs if they only deal normal dmg?

2. If I decide to go with Berserk, should I use a polearm/spear/axe type weapon or something short and fast (like a mace/sword)? (You mentioned something about "a big stick".. Haven't found one of those yet:P)

3. I may play fast, but I don't like feeling constricted. If I see a monster 'over there', I'd like to have the choice myself whether to rest a bit or go over and kill it. What I *don't* want, is that constant nagging feeling that I have to go and kill something fast before my frenzy wears off. I need my freedom (, man)..

In the long run, I think berserk is the way to go, as it works so well against Hell-diff beasts. The fact that I have to wait 5 more levels (I'm about lvl 25 now) before I can spend a skill, is something I'll have to live with. I'm currently using cleglaw's sword and gloves (incremental dmg pr lvl + knockback from gloves). With 1 skill point in bash and 26 points saved up, I'm holding my own in act 4 normal. It seems the barbarian is more dependent on gear than on skills, at least in the first difficulty.

The reason I haven't picked a mastery and maxed it yet is because I don't know which weapon I'll be using. If I choose frenzy, I think I might go with maces (if those are dual-wieldable... - are they?) If I go with berserk, I think I'll need something a bit longer and pointier (spear/polearm?).

[librarian]

1.)
50% global PI is history. That was 1.09. In 1.1x there's still a lot of physical resistance around, varying from about 33% up to immunity.
Frenzy gets a synergy bonus granting some magical damage. OTOH there is nothing wrong with good oldschool 'one-point-in-Zerk-forPIs' skillpoint distribution, for every kind of Barbarian.

2.)
Most common is a big 2H Hammer. You'll want to spend lots of stat points in vitality, and swords as well as spears and to some extend axes and poles need quite some amount of dexterity.
You may say, well, big hammers need lots of strength instead of some strength and some dexterity, but lots of strength will also increase your damage. Plus hammers get a slightly better damage bonus from strength than any other weapon. This hasn't changed. There was also no change in 'the worst way to increase your attack rating is wasting points into dexterity' rule.
And, because your question sounds a bit like it, I don't see any reason for using 1H weapons with shield while Zerking.

It seems the barbarian is more dependent on gear than on skills, at least in the first difficulty.

Every melee class is, in every difficulty. Without a good weapon it's really boring and tedious. IMHO, YMMV etc.

[[wcip]Angel]

I had been leaning against maxing mace mastery because I've been using civerb's amulet+weapon, but decided to wait for replies before choosing the "wrong" mastery. I did manage to get through Normal with a lvl 2 berserk; no mastery. (Baal took forever though). I'm looking forward to returning to my barbarian in Nightmare diff. I suppose another bonus with mace mastery is that the IK set comes into play at later levels should I be so lucky as to find its parts. I know the IK set is supposed to "sUxx0rz teh b|g one one" compared to the better runewords and uniques, but there's something wonderously satisfying in completing a set:)

Thanks for all your help. I'm looking forward to playing this build further on:)

Next up is the amazon. Hmmm.. Freezing/Immo-arrow burizon or lightning javazon?

[[wcip]Angel]

Hmm... I decided to build a lightning javazon (Never played one before).

But I was wondering, which is the better skill of lightning fury and lightning strike?

[Munkay]

Angel' date='Aug 9 2006, 03:31 PM' post='115326']
Hmm... I decided to build a lightning javazon (Never played one before).

But I was wondering, which is the better skill of lightning fury and lightning strike?

Lightning Fury.

[Zingydex]

And, because your question sounds a bit like it, I don't see any reason for using 1H weapons with shield while Zerking.

How about actually having a chance of surviving Hell archer packs?

[Munkay]

How about actually having a chance of surviving Hell archer packs?

That's why there are faster run/walk boots? :whistling:

[librarian]

Heiho,

How about actually having a chance of surviving Hell archer packs?

happy feet, like Munkay suggested, or stand your place and begin to cry.
Archers are a good opportunity to train your Howl and Taunt skills.
Also you can jump into the pack and give 'em a solid War Cry.

Really, I think the Zerk is all about raw damage and a big life pool. Subtle things like shields don't fit that picture. Zerk mode is nothing you want to play with a weak heart and mind. Ancient Zerkers are known to have ripped of their clothes and fought naked, so that no piece of armour could disturb their agility in combat (blizz coders must have known this, since your defense goes down), and the more exaggerated stories tell us they've eaten their shields before combat just to get in the right mood.


Plus, of course, from the tech approach the Barbarian has abysimal blocking qualities. You'd rather want to go into HitRecovery - which is preventable via a huge lifepool - than into BlockMode. This would be the reason why I would suggest going 2H with a weaker minded Concentrating Barb, too. The constitution and a skill like natural resistance the Barbarian have even make the resistance bonus you commonly want a shield for neglectible.

[Munkay]

Actually, the truth of the matter is that the Barb class is desparingly broken. A shield with no block % could be worth the benefit, despite giving up damage.

If it takes you 5 minutes to kill 1 baddie, what's another 5? :P

/sarcasm <_<