Priest T6 Bonuses

[Zarathustra]

Good point - do you get that from randoms or just people that know you? I've never had it, but I've had "you don't have to tank this time" from friends.

How does Moonkins 5% compare to how much a Shadow Priest helps Paladin healing? I know both are good but haven't done the math for just how good each is.

Shadow Priest definitely wins in terms of healing aid through the mana supply. I dare say a Moonkin brings more to the table in terms of healing power when shifted out, a combat rez, and crowd control. I get the requests to come dps in an instance from friends and anyone with whom I've pugged in the Moonkin role.

In a raid where roles are more defined and there is less (or no) need to switch and fill a need, a Moonkin loses ground. But a Druid who knows what he's doing can turn heads and change minds.

[Brista]

That 5% gets better the higher a Paladin's spell crit is to start with. If he has 15% crit then it changes his spellcasting by making only 80% of his heals cost mana instead of 85%.

The highest spell crit I've encountered in game was 41%. If you have that much on a healing pally then it means that adding a Moonkin aura means only 54% of his regular heals cost mana. When you bear in mind he can also make one mana free every 2 minutes that's getting pretty imba

Also he can play interesting mana regen games with the 5 second rule. If two crit in a row then he's probably into high regen so he can pause the next heal or Divine Favour it to keep his regen going

So we have a healer who is outside the five second rule for a much longer time than the average healer, who has 50% innate healing threat reduction, and has low cost heals plus they get Improved Improved Fade (bubble). Pretty tasty!

[Dynatos]

plus they get Improved Improved Fade (bubble). Pretty tasty!

I wouldn't compare it to fade since it's on a 5min cooldown and is typically cast on a target other than the Paladin since, with their innate heal threat reduction, they typically don't need it.

[Skandranon]

Also he can play interesting mana regen games with the 5 second rule. If two crit in a row then he's probably into high regen so he can pause the next heal or Divine Favour it to keep his regen going

Not true. Illumination doesn't actually make your spell free, it just refunds the full mana cost after it crits. Which is to say, you cast it, the cast completes, you lose mana, then you gain mana back if you crit. Paladins are inside the 5 second rule constantly.

[Brista]

Not true. Illumination doesn't actually make your spell free, it just refunds the full mana cost after it crits. Which is to say, you cast it, the cast completes, you lose mana, then you gain mana back if you crit. Paladins are inside the 5 second rule constantly.

Ah I see, what a shame, well it would be rather over-powered I suppose

[Brista]

I wouldn't compare it to fade since it's on a 5min cooldown and is typically cast on a target other than the Paladin since, with their innate heal threat reduction, they typically don't need it.

They have two bubble abilities one which is cast on other people and stops physical damage while zeroing threat and one which is cast on themselves and stops all damage while zeroing threat

In a raid context if a Paladin healer were to draw threat Divine Shield is comparable to Fade (instant threat reduction) but better

[Warlock]

They have two bubble abilities one which is cast on other people and stops physical damage while zeroing threat and one which is cast on themselves and stops all damage while zeroing threat

In a raid context if a Paladin healer were to draw threat Divine Shield is comparable to Fade (instant threat reduction) but better

I don't believe either bubble actually reduces threat, it's just that mobs ignore immune targets. Which doesn't change your point (after all, fade gives it's threat back when it's over). Just clarifying in case of "but I read that bubble reduces threat" posts down the track:)

[Taelas]

I wouldn't compare it to fade since it's on a 5min cooldown and is typically cast on a target other than the Paladin since, with their innate heal threat reduction, they typically don't need it.

Paladins do not have an innate healing threat reduction as far as I know.

As for pugs... I've been going mostly as a tank. Most of the time that I get to go kitty is with guild groups. I enjoy pretty much all aspects of being a druid, though--although my healing gear isn't good enough for me to main-heal instances--so I don't really mind either way.

[Delc]

They have two bubble abilities one which is cast on other people and stops physical damage while zeroing threat and one which is cast on themselves and stops all damage while zeroing threat

In a raid context if a Paladin healer were to draw threat Divine Shield is comparable to Fade (instant threat reduction) but better

Don't they have a third bubble? (divine protection) or is the 5min cooldown linked with divine shield?

As for healing threat. I'm pretty sure paladin heals only generate half the threat of other classes heals.

[Dynatos]

Paladins do not have an innate healing threat reduction as far as I know.

Paladin heals have a built in 50% threat reduction.

[Arnulf]

Don't they have a third bubble? (divine protection) or is the 5min cooldown linked with divine shield?

They are both on the same cooldown.

[Skandranon]

I don't believe either bubble actually reduces threat, it's just that mobs ignore immune targets. Which doesn't change your point (after all, fade gives it's threat back when it's over). Just clarifying in case of "but I read that bubble reduces threat" posts down the track:)

Correct, neither immunity has any effect on threat. This is important mostly for Blessing of Protection, which only blocks physical damage. If the mob has an activated non-physical attack (distinguished from passive attacks like immolation aura) it will stay on the Protected character. For example, Blessing of Protection doesn't change Hydross the Unstable's targeting in the least (he has no physical attacks).

[Taelas]

Paladin heals have a built in 50% threat reduction.

Any numbers to back up this claim?

I've seen it stated many times, but I've never actually seen any proof.

The main reason why I'm skeptic on this point is that just after 2.0, we used a Paladin tank on the Nefarian trash--and all he did was heal himself.

[Dynatos]

The main reason why I'm skeptic on this point is that just after 2.0, we used a Paladin tank on the Nefarian trash--and all he did was heal himself.

Righteous Fury gives +60% threat on all Paladin Holy spells. With 3/3 Improved Righteous Fury, the threat increase is 90%. He probably had Improved Righteous Fury active, making his threat higher than that of the other healers.

[Taelas]

Righteous Fury gives +60% threat on all Paladin Holy spells. With 3/3 Improved Righteous Fury, the threat increase is 90%. He probably had Improved Righteous Fury active, making his threat higher than that of the other healers.

Right, I had neglected to take that into account. However, all that proves is that the Nefarian trash-fight is possible even with a base low threat-modifier. It doesn't put any weight on the -50% threat arguments. I still haven't seen any evidence that it exists.

[Brista]

Correct, neither immunity has any effect on threat. This is important mostly for Blessing of Protection, which only blocks physical damage. If the mob has an activated non-physical attack (distinguished from passive attacks like immolation aura) it will stay on the Protected character. For example, Blessing of Protection doesn't change Hydross the Unstable's targeting in the least (he has no physical attacks).

That's interesting

Is it possible for a Paladin tank to tank a mob that uses both physical and magic attacks with BoP on?

[Brista]

Right, I had neglected to take that into account. However, all that proves is that the Nefarian trash-fight is possible even with a base low threat-modifier. It doesn't put any weight on the -50% threat arguments. I still haven't seen any evidence that it exists.

http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=9258 is a good summary of how threat is believed to work

Regarding heal tanking with Improved Righteous Fury I believe that threat is 0.5 per point healed (base) * 0.5 (innate paladin healing threat modifier) * 1.9 (Improved Righteous Fury modifier) which puts it just a tad behind non-talented heal threat from the other classes

[Skandranon]

That's interesting

Is it possible for a Paladin tank to tank a mob that uses both physical and magic attacks with BoP on?

Well, sure. But BoP lasts for ten seconds on a five-minute cooldown (you can talent it down to 3 min), and during that time you can't make physical attacks (for Alliance, that means your Holy Vengeance is likely going to fall off). On appropriate mobs, you can give yourself a ten-second breather at the cost of pretty much all your threat generation (you can judge one seal).

Frankly, there's no need for the Paladin to be tanking. You can BoP anyone, after all. Of course, for warriors and druids, it really does cut off all your threat generation, which is not a good thing.

[Taelas]

Much smarter to do the ol' Divine Shield + Righteous Defense. Just cancel the bubble when the taunt debuff wears off.;)

Thanks, Brista. If the author of KTM says the same, that's good enough for me.

[lemekim]

That's interesting

Is it possible for a Paladin tank to tank a mob that uses both physical and magic attacks with BoP on?

That probably depends on what the primary attack of the mob is. If it's a melee mob with occasional spells, it will turn to someone else. If it's a spellcaster who only melees if his spells are locked out, then you should be able to.