[Terenas] Karazhan - Tuesday April 10th

[Concillian]

Given Tuesday showed the second highest number of people on the availability thread, we’re going to give Karazhan a shot this coming Tuesday April 10th at 8pm.

This also works out well for progression in Karazhan, as we can use the raidlock the following Friday if needed. If we only have enough the following Friday for 1 raidlock, they can continue this lock or work on a new one. If we have enough for 2 locks and we shuffle people properly, then we have one group starting and one group continuing. This works MUCH better with a single lock group early in the week compared to late in the week.

People who come on Tuesday the 10th will not be given preference for continuing the lock on Friday the 13th. The way the invite queue works, Friday the 13th preference will be given to those who were not there Tuesday until we get around the list again. If there are enough people for 2 locks on Friday, then there will probably be a fair number of Tueday people also coming Friday. However, if there's only enough for a single raidlock, it is very likely that coming Tuesday shuts you out of Friday, as we want to include as many people as possible.

So please post if there is interest. Given this is the first ever Lurker or partial Lurker raid on a Tuesday on Terenas to my knowledge, this is very much an experiment. Lack of interest in this thread may mean cancellation of the run. I will post a roster or cancellation notice in this thread on Monday evening based on the responses in this thread and how people are positioned in the invite queue.

I’m setting this at 8pm, which is the earliest I can make it. A yet to be determined helper will help with getting the pre-raid stuff together, which should be simply invites and summoning.

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edit:
vor_lord's comments brought something to mind. There is a possibility that we have people who won't have rolled into the invite queue because they were never able to make a Friday raid but can make a Tuesday raid. If this is the case for you... that you are not rolled in to the queue because you cannot regularly attend on Friday, please mention it in your post so we can give you priority this raid.

[bonemage]

I will be there, and 8PM is my start time as well.

[vor_lord]

I'm very interested -- I'll check and see if I can commit. I'd say I have a good chance of being able to come. I really like the idea of being able to continue a lock on Friday, and optionally start another one. I hope this works.

8 start time on Tuesday works well for me.

I think we may have to consider Friday when making the possible roster. For example, we can't put too many of the critical role people on Tuesday without removing ability to run a second lock on Friday. I guess we'll see how many people have interest etc.

So I will be available on Friday the 13th if that is useful in assembling the Tuesday roster.

Thanks for setting this up Conc.

I'll post again here if I can make more of a commitment.

[Treesh]

Mogo's there and I can be online about a half hour before the start time so I can help with invites and whatnot.

[Kevin]

Marn can go and I can be on pretty much whenever on Tuesday.

[Xame]

Yuri can also make Tuesday 7pm.

[Concillian]

I think we may have to consider Friday when making the possible roster. For example, we can't put too many of the critical role people on Tuesday without removing ability to run a second lock on Friday. I guess we'll see how many people have interest etc.

We'll see what we end up with, but yes, we don't want to have 3 main tank healers on Tuesday leaving only one for a 2nd lock on Friday, for example. We also don't want to end up with all the people willing to lead raids locked into Tuesday so there aren't people available to lead a 2nd lock on Friday. I will post a tentative roster on Monday morning in the raid leader forum so we can discuss potential Friday 2nd lock issues before a more finalized roster is posted in this thread.

I realized that there is a possibility of a case that someone hasn't rolled into the invite queue because they can't make Fridays, and am adding a little to the initial post based on this.

[Frag]

Sounds good, multiple times a week would rock. Prefer 6 or 7pm start, but if 8 is it, I'll be there!

Cheers,
~Frag B)

Edit: Tiga is now keyed and available for runs. Up for running multiple times a week if there's a need/space.

[Klaus]

I'm not sure yet if I'd be able to come or not, but I have some concerns about doing this:

If I can come on Tuesday and we only run one on Friday, so I get left out, that is suboptimal for my game time. I can stay up much later on Friday than I can on Tuesday, so I would rather choose a Friday run over a Tuesday run if I can.

Second, if the Tuesday run kills Attumen and we only field one raid on Friday, then the Friday folks never get shots at that loot - they only get to attempt Moroes or Maiden, and possible not get either. This is currently a concern because Attumen seems like a sure thing, and the others are not. If you say the Tuesday group will not do Attumen and attempt one of the other two, then actually win, the Friday folks that end up in that raid lock have missed out. Basically, if you actually make any progress on Tuesday, some of the Friday-only people have been locked out of seeing that encounter. Since (in general) I can probably only raid Friday on a regular basis, this is of concern to me.

Finally, the group makeup of Tuesday (as already mentioned) has to be carefully considered so that a second raid can start on Friday if we have enough people. If (as Conc suggests) we have only one Friday raid and it's mostly new people (not from Tuesday), that group doesn't get a "fresh" instance.

So, I've mixed feelings about doing this. On the one hand, I know that people want to make faster progress and see more. On the other hand, I feel like this may either a. make me feel like I have to try really hard to be available Tuesday to avoid missing stuff or b. feel left out because I can't make it (or didn't get in because of group make-up). The group make-up thing could really be a problem for me (personally) because of the "only two priests" thing. To field two solid Friday raids, we'd like to put one priest in each. So, if Necrali and I are both available on Tuesday, only one of us can go - unless we know we're only having one raid on Friday.

Darn this "only 10 slots, 7 day lock" issue. :(

[PapaSmurf]

I'm available to go on tuesday. I can go at 8 ST.

D

[VoiceMan]

Fazuul should be available on time.

[Concillian]

I'm not sure yet if I'd be able to come or not, but I have some concerns about doing this:

If I can come on Tuesday and we only run one on Friday, so I get left out, that is suboptimal for my game time. I can stay up much later on Friday than I can on Tuesday, so I would rather choose a Friday run over a Tuesday run if I can.

1) it is up to the individual raiders to manage their queue positions. If you definitely want in Friday, you'll have to skip Tuesday. So far it's looking like a 2nd week in a row we will have at least 20 on Friday, so there is a good chance that Tuesday people can get in on Friday also. Giving Friday preference to people who went Tuesday is definitely unfair.

The good news is that we have something like 25 keyed and we have demonstrated potential for filling 2 locks. Given that we'll rarely have EVERYONE on a given night, the chances of 2 locks are good and we will likely have very few wanting to go that can't fit. The queue system that we have setup will tend to distribute things equally. So that if there are 22 people on Friday, 2 of the people who went Tuesday won't be able to go, but the following week if the same 10 go Tuesday, and the same 22 people show Friday... 2 different people that went Tuesday will sit out Friday. So going on Tuesday will not ALWAYS lock you out of Friday.

Eventually I think we can get the queues posted so people can see when it's likely that going Tuesday would force them out of Friday, and they can just not sign up on Tuesday if they'd prefer Friday as their singular day that week. Though it might not be easy to see this given the raid composition requirements.


2a) Assuming 2 raid locks Friday, some people end up with an option of whether to go in the fresh lock or the progressed lock. Some people would rather see loot and some don't care and some would rather see the new encounters. I think when possible we will give people higher in the queue their choice. Obviously the Tuesday people are forced into a particular lock.

2b) Assuming 1 raid lock on Friday, if the Tuesday group only got to attempts on Moroes, there's really no reason to continue the lock. As you note, Attumen is not difficult and can be handled in the first 20-30 minutes. All the trash after him will have respawned. The raid leader would probably choose to start a new lock. Someone from Tuesday would be available to let people into the old lock if they wanted, but it would be up to the leader to decide.

Early response is strong, so we will likely have to sideline people on Tuesday. This is going to be a necessary evil, we will generally give preference to people higher in the queue, but of course raid composition has to be considered, we need at least 2 main healers and a FFA healer / something else (DPS or tank), we need at least one MT capable and one OT capable person. We can't have a raid full of critical classes or we screw up a 2nd lock on Friday. Certainly the choice of who to take is not an easy one.

On the other hand, I feel like this may either a. make me feel like I have to try really hard to be available Tuesday to avoid missing stuff or b. feel left out because I can't make it (or didn't get in because of group make-up). The group make-up thing could really be a problem for me (personally) because of the "only two priests" thing. To field two solid Friday raids, we'd like to put one priest in each. So, if Necrali and I are both available on Tuesday, only one of us can go - unless we know we're only having one raid on Friday.

I think that this is a lesser concern. Your roles do not step on each other. Moors is functionally similar in that he can dispel, CC undead, and heal. You'd lose fort, but gain BoK. I think it's more of a 3 person rotation. We should also have at least one alt-priest (mine) available for subbing in for forts (if the raid is near the entrance or has a warlock) if it came to that.

If we don't have at least 2 days, though, progress will be quite slow. Hopefully this will allow people to rotate between seeing early stuff (and getting quick loots) and seeing the learning fights. There are some bosses that can be skipped and such so Tuesday might see later bosses and Friday can see earlier bosses. WE'll have to learn a bit more about the instance and throw some variety in.

I think all the raid leaders are sensitive to the issues of having people "locked into teams" being bad, and having people "locked into seeing only specific bosses on their night" being bad. It's not an easy thing to manage, but I think we're going to try to balance as best we can to have some progress and also be sensitive to the one raid day per week people.

[Torenia]

Torenia would be available if needed

[Sinomin]

This is too confusing for me :wacko:

Moors will be avalible, I dont have any real concerns, Im just interested in progressing. When we get to the 25 man stuff it will be awesome. This 10 man planning is rough.

[Shamago]

I'll go. I won't be able to stay much later than 11-12 PM server time, however.

[Concillian]

Here's to having some fun planning ahead of me:
- 4 out of 4 main healers signed up
- 4 out of 4 Druids signed up
- 4 tanks signed up if you count me as DPS.
- all the dispellers signed up

Yeah, roster planning is definitely going to need to be done carefully in order to not screw over a second raidlock on Friday the 13th.

Thanks goodness we have an invite queue available to make some of the decisions for me.

[Treesh]

Thanks goodness we have an invite queue available to make some of the decisions for me.

The invite queue was one of your best ideas Conc. :)

[mandydax]

I have a much better chance to get home early on a Tuesday than on a Friday. Work is set up so that I'm really the only one there Friday nights after 8:30ST and I can't leave until 10ST, getting home at 10:30ST. Tuesdays, there are two other people who stay later than I do.

I'll check with my boss about taking a couple hours of PTO so I can experience a full raid run from start to wherever we finish. ~_^ Also, is the start time 8ST or is that when we start sending out invites?

I was available for late replacement on 4/6, but wasn't needed. Shim's parked right outside Kara and is Frost DPS Mage.

[vor_lord]

Thanks goodness we have an invite queue available to make some of the decisions for me.

If this makes it any easier, I can pass on Tuesday. I wanted to make sure I was available to get a raid going but it appears I'm not needed so it might be better if I pass.

[Mavfin]

If this makes it any easier, I can pass on Tuesday. I wanted to make sure I was available to get a raid going but it appears I'm not needed so it might be better if I pass.

I'm *available* for Tuesday, but pass on me if I'm not needed.