Rites of Passage

[ShadowHM]

I have begun to notice a change in the way we, as a society, are observing that final rite of passage – the funeral.

When I was a child, a funeral had a rule-set that was fairly universally observed. The funeral was held within a week of the death, usually within three days. If lengthy travel was required by close family members to get there, it might be the full week.

People were not usually cremated. Often, there were open caskets. The ornateness of casket itself was a measure of the person’s wealth, community standing and/or the respect the family held for them.

The funeral was held in either a church (the one attended by the deceased or, at least, by the family members of the deceased) or in a funeral home.

There was always a speaker, either the priest/minister/rabbi/church leader or a family designate, who would deliver a beatified summary of the person’s life. (Sometimes, you could even wonder if you were attending the right funeral, so glowing were the terms always used.)

The gathering would be concluded with a trip to the cemetery to inter the coffin.

Lately, the only people I whose funerals have been like this have been the very elderly. The people from 70 on down have begun to request a very different send-off. They are requesting that the ceremony be described as a ‘Celebration of their Life’ and that it be a much less formal affair.

For starters, most people are now cremated. This allows considerable flexibility in the timing of the event. Most of the funerals I have been attending of late are held at a time convenient to the survivors and those who they would like to invite, sometimes many months after the death. They seldom take place in churches or funeral homes, and are more likely to take place in private homes. And they have no link to the interment (or other disposal method) of the ashes.

These private and informal events are usually characterized by a general mingling and story sharing, to pass on our memories of the individual to each other, so we can know the many facets they had and the ways in which they influenced each of us. I have come away from these events with more of a feeling of completion and peace of mind than any of those more formal events have ever generated.

So, I am wondering: Am I part of a small sub-culture of change, or is this a phenomenon that is growing everywhere? What are the funerals you attend like?

And, before anyone asks, yes, I am attending one of those events soon. Hence the subject is on my mind right now.

[Roland]

I'll stick with the old ways.

I honestly can't say one way or the other in terms of a trend. I can say that when my grandfather passed this winter, he was cremated, and a service will be held sometime this spring or summer (interesting story about that, actually). Part of this certainly was convenience, but more that of his wife, my grandmother, than the rest of the family. They had only gotten back to their home in Florida a few months prior, and so she was already financially and mentally drained. I think it was much more to do with energy and well-being than financial, to be sure. My grandfather was never an easy man to live with, and he was a great deal of work to handle in his later years, as his body slowly but surely gave out. She stuck by him to the end, though; no nursing home for him, except for a few brief visits for post-care.

On the other hand, I live right down the street from the town cemetery (where my sister is, as you put it, interned). I still see plenty of funerals being attended there, in the ways of old. Mind you, we're talking a handful a year that I actually witness, but there's at least that many more that I don't see, or that I only see the freshly turned earth. It's a small town, with a small cemetery, and people aren't dropping like flies, but even so, I still see funerals. It helps that the funeral home is just a couple hundred feet further away, and we have a whole slew of churches in town, with... 3 - 4 within walking distance of where I live.

As for me, personally, I'm not sure how I feel about rotting away in the ground. I'd like to romanticize it by thinking of it more as "returning to the earth from whence I came", but really, the grim truth is I'll be rotting away in a box. Not very "returning to earth" if I do say so myself. On the other hand, I kind of like the thought of lying in a bed of sorts, although the idea of being nailed shut in a box isn't all that thrilling, either. I certainly don't want to be cremated, though. If I am to turn to ash, let me turn to dust beforehand. Besides, I definitely don't want to be stuck in a metal pot, displayed like some trophy around the relatives' houses.

I've always found peace in cemeteries. I love them, for a variety of reasons. I've always been given solace and comfort by them, and because of that, I want my survivors to have the same. So in all likelihood, I will be buried in the earth, likely next to my sister (the difference in casket size would be morbidly amusing). The only other thing I can think of is a true Viking funeral, but again, I'm not sure if I can truly romanticize the idea of my death enough to actually want something like that. Besides, there is something to be said for going to the earth whole. Not to mention that, as much as I love being on the sea, sailing, what-have-you, I am not much of a sea-farer, at least in terms of being IN the water. Still... I could see myself going for a Viking funeral. I suppose part of that would be whether or not my father has one when he passes (which will no doubt be many years from now).

Since we're on such a morbid topic, here's a little humorous diddy to bright your day. I work for my father, in town, and we both have boxes at the local P.O., along with our service manager (automotive repair). Generally, either myself or my father will go and gather the mail each day, Monday through Friday. On one particular day, just like any other, my father suggests it's a good time to get the mail. I grab his key, along with our service manager's, and head out. I gather the mail from all three boxes, and find a card in my father's for a pick-up at the counter. I casually wait in the short line to deliver the notice, hand over the card and patiently wait for them to bring it to me. Out comes this good-sized (not huge, but not small, either) box. He places it on the scale as he does his little routine for the paperwork. As he's doing this, and I'm wandering around in my own thoughts, he looks up at me and says "Who died?" At this point, I'm rather perplexed. My grandfather has passed, very recently, but there's no way he could have known that, and yet here he was asking me. So I give him a querying look, to which he responds by pointing at the side of the box - where it stated, in large undeniable letters, "cremated remains", or something to that effect (somehow, I've managed to forget the exact words - I think I was too stunned at the time to truly commit them to memory). It was at this point I realized the horrific humor of it all. I swallowed my stunned silence, and told him my grandfather had died. He nodded, might have given me his condolences, I honestly don't remember, and then I carried my grandfather, tucked away neatly in a cardboard box, out to my car. I must admit, he was fairly heavy for such a box, although not unmanageable. I chatted with him amiably enough, still trying to get over the whole idea of "Oh my God I'm carrying my grandfather he's in a goddamn box oh Jesus what the #$%&". I placed him on the passenger seat, belted him in (oh yes, I sure as hell did - I was NOT about to have him spilling about my car; I'm damned enough in my life, no need to make it any worse), and apologized profusely for what I was about to do. Then, I started my car up, cranked up the stereo, and tried to forget it all, the whole long (even though it's less than 3 miles round trip, it felt much, much longer) trip back to the shop. I walk in carrying a box, and the guys start saying something about it. I walk upstairs, press onward into my father's office, and place the box on the table in front of the microwave. He turns around and gets up, thanking me for going (as usual), and then sees the box. He asks "What's that?" It was at this point that I simply had to smile to myself a little. Ah, how life works in such mysterious ways. All I could reply was "Grandpa." He looked at me sort of funny, and then looked at the box closer. It was then he realized I was being serious, and not just pulling his leg. We shared a few estranged silences, broken by some awkward "Well gee" sort of words, and then it was back to business as usual.

Yes indeed, life works in mysterious ways, and if ever I needed a reason NOT to get cremated when I pass, that day gave me more than I'll ever need. Even if it would be priceless to see the look on MY grandson's face when he comes to get the mail, and ends up taking me back with him.

'Cause, you know, that #$%& is funny. Even if it's a little morbid.

[Doc]

Buried in the ground. **Shudder**

I just can't go for that.

Personally, I want to be laid out in a Viking longboat, hauled out to international waters where there are no laws against this sort of thing, doused in oil, and the whole damn boat set ablaze. And I'd probably want a few minor things hauled out to sea with me. I know I can't take them with me, but I don't want a few treasured trinkets being in anybody elses hands but my own.

Being buried in the earth aint natural. Really... After you die, you're trash. Waste. Something that rots and gets all maggoty. I don't know about you folks, but I certainly don't want to be all wormy and maggoty. You burn trash. You dispose of it. Have you ever been present when they have to dig a body back out of the earth after it has been buried? Do the words "hot dog in a microwave" mean anything to anybody? Your eyeballs burst and the jelly oozes everywhere before it dries up. Your guts burst and your meaty remains stain and cling to the velvet or the satin lining the top of your coffin. All your juices come oozing out your ass and you stew in your own filth lying there in that little box.

Ugh.

Somebody give me some dignity when I die, make sure I am burned to cinders.

[ShadowHM]

For all of you who are feeling squeamish about what what happens after you die, you can arrange for some form of permanance. I think it would be a nasty thing to do to your descendents, but YMMV.

[Bun-Bun]

Buried in the ground. **Shudder**

Somebody give me some dignity when I die, make sure I am burned to cinders.

Seconded. Crisp me and scatter my ashes somewhere. I'd kinda like somewhere off the Outer Banks, but by the time that happens, I won't care if I'm dumped in a vacant lot.

As for the current trend in ceremonies, the ones I've attended have been a mixed bag. My uncle and grandmother were both traditional, viewing the body and all. I did not find those particularly comforting.

My Mom's was more like a wake, befitting her Irish ancestry. The funeral for a friend of mine was similarly upbeat in a grim sort of way, a time to come together and remember. The trip to the cemetary was reserved for family in that case.

I sympathize with Roland. Notoriously clumsy me had to pop Mom's ashes in her niche, at about head level. I moved veeeery slowly ...

[Doc]

Seconded. Crisp me and scatter my ashes somewhere. I'd kinda like somewhere off the Outer Banks, but by the time that happens, I won't care if I'm dumped in a vacant lot.

As for the current trend in ceremonies, the ones I've attended have been a mixed bag. My uncle and grandmother were both traditional, viewing the body and all. I did not find those particularly comforting.

My Mom's was more like a wake, befitting her Irish ancestry. The funeral for a friend of mine was similarly upbeat in a grim sort of way, a time to come together and remember. The trip to the cemetary was reserved for family in that case.

I sympathize with Roland. Notoriously clumsy me had to pop Mom's ashes in her niche, at about head level. I moved veeeery slowly ...

I attended an Irish wake a looooooong time ago. There was about 40 or so people there, most of the them Irish, and those that survived to see the sun rise had to be Irish by morning. An entire cask of extremely hard cider was gone... No clue how much was in a cask, but it was a small wooden barrel. Enough black oatmeal stout to float a battleship. Home made stuff. And home brewed single malt whisky. Over a gallon of that. All gone. When morning came, the casket was piled high with shot glasses to honour the dearly departed. There were people passed out piss drunk on the floor snoring away, some in puddles of their own vomit. There were two women completely passed out naked from the waist up, who had done a bit of a strip tease for the departed the night before. Several pairs of knickers from other ladies had been left in the casket, or hung off the casket. (The lid got closed some time in the night) There was even a boy of about 13 or so completely passed out piss drunk. And he had seen everything the night before. (Younger brother of the departed)

God bless the Irish. They put the fun back in to funeral.

[librarian]

Heiho,

speaking of trends I do indeed notice an increasing amount of crematorial funerals. Having seen actually one I didn't like that one. The coffin was on some rails, and after the funeral service some kind of door opened and the coffin on rails was by some automatism drawn behind that doors, doors closed, end of funeral. Despite of the usual funeral service with some speech, nice flowers and everything that last and least part of it gave the whole scenery a very mundane or even industrial approach. This might not disturb you, if you think of the mortal remains as garbage. It did upset me a lot for various reasons, YMMV.
I don't want to elaborate too much on what might or might not happen between that doors' closing and the moment when the close relatives get some tin can with what they should believe as being all what's left from their deceased. If you like you may spend some thoughts on physics and the actual heat needed to burn a corpse _completely_ to ashes. I don't know about other countries' regularities about crematories.
Surprisingly enough the amount of ashes always fits the tin can quite neatly.
My objections are focussed at something I'd call 'respect to the dead ones', in need of better wording.

Still there's an increasing amount of crematorials. Around here the reasons I see are quite economical. To understand this you must know that it is not allowed here to take burial ashes at home or bury them where you like. You must bury it at a cemetery. You have to pay for the occupying duration (usually about 25 years, depends from village to village), and you have to pay nearly twice as much for a common grave than for a urn grave. Of course a tombstone, if any, wouldn't be that expensive for a small urn grave. Also you're responsible for that place during that time. If you live quite at some distance to the cemetery or there're other reasons why you can't take care of it you may hire a nursery service.

I know People looking ahead for their _own_ funeral want to be burnt and buried in the grave of the 'Unknown' because they don't want to be a nuisance to their descendants or anyone else after deceasing. This is even worse than missing respect to the dead ones, since I see this as a reliable indicator of missing care to elder relatives in families. The 'Unknown' grave is usually the place to bury those who don't have anyone to take care after deceasing.

[ShadowHM]

Heiho,

speaking of trends I do indeed notice an increasing amount of crematorial funerals. Having seen actually one I didn't like that one. The coffin was on some rails, and after the funeral service some kind of door opened and the coffin on rails was by some automatism drawn behind that doors, doors closed, end of funeral. Despite of the usual funeral service with some speech, nice flowers and everything that last and least part of it gave the whole scenery a very mundane or even industrial approach.

That would have been disconcerting to me too. Here, the 'usual procedure' is that the crematory staff pick up the body, cremate it and the ashes are either picked up by the designated family member or delivered to them. The funeral or memorial service or whatever the gathering of those who mourn is called takes place after the cremation.

Still there's an increasing amount of crematorials. Around here the reasons I see are quite economical. To understand this you must know that it is not allowed here to take burial ashes at home or bury them where you like. You must bury it at a cemetery.

That is the law here too. However, it is ignored with impunity, as far as I can tell.

My own father's ashes are, in fact, buried in a corner of the family plot. But I am aware of quite a number of other locations that have been used for people I have known. They range from the mantlepiece of the family home, to being scattered a a place (or places) that were loved by that individual and, in one case, being buried at the base of a tree planted in his memory.

I know People looking ahead for their _own_ funeral want to be burnt and buried in the grave of the 'Unknown' because they don't want to be a nuisance to their descendants or anyone else after deceasing. This is even worse than missing respect to the dead ones, since I see this as a reliable indicator of missing care to elder relatives in families. The 'Unknown' grave is usually the place to bury those who don't have anyone to take care after deceasing.

And that is a distressing comment on the state of families nowadays. :(

[Yrrek]

Shadow,

I am only 19, but have been to funerals of both types which you speak of. I prefer to go to the newer funerals, as they are not focused on grieving, but remembering and growing. When I die, I want to be remembered as the fun loving nerd/musician/Army-guy that I am. I want there to be fun music, maybe a light show. Just some activity that people can get together to have a good time and remember all the good times I had with the guests. That, to me, is the perfect way to honor a deceased friend/loved one.

Yrrek

[LemmingofGlory]

On the other hand, I live right down the street from the town cemetery (where my sister is, as you put it, interned).

Your sister is an intern at the cemetery? Dude, morbid. Does she like "Six Feet Under"?

Besides, I definitely don't want to be stuck in a metal pot, displayed like some trophy around the relatives' houses.

I want to be mounted and stuffed. Yew know, like by one of them thar taxonomists.

I've always found peace in cemeteries.

You can also find pieces in cemeteries... :shuriken:

I've only been to one funeral, myself. It was the traditional kind. Honestly, I didn't like it. I hate to critique a funeral-- Wait, actually I have no compunctions against it, so if I may say so, his eulogy sucked! The first half of the speech was almost entirely religious in nature, and that's not out of the ordinary for the deep south. But what's really unimaginative is that first part of the eulogy was a gigantic platitude that could be said about anyone. People don't die every day, folks. The least you can do is curtail a send-off speech to the person who died. They're not gonna die again, y'know? It's time to muster up some memories.

I dunno. I guess my expectations were just too high. I mean, I didn't really know the guy, so I was hoping to learn a bit about the great and shiny Sir Urns-a-lot since he seemed to make most everyone's eyes leak. Prior to the guy dying, I hadn't heard one good thing about the man. I wanted a story. I wanted to hear what, besides DNA, endeared this guy to his (largely estranged) family, because they're some pretty awesome people.

The second half of the eulogy was a flowery, tidied up version of his life. It focused on his good qualities instead of his bad ones. But you know they're reaching when you hear stuff like "He always gave a penny, never took a penny." I guess they censor life because, at a funeral, it's too much to deal with the person in anything but idealized terms. You know it hurts when the family refers to the deceeased in present tense for up to a week afterwards.

So, where I'm going with all this is that I think I'd prefer funerals that are less stuffy and truer to the person's life. I fully expect my grandpa to die pretty soon, and I'd rather like to hear about his life. The good stuff, the bad stuff, the stuff that makes him human. Celebrate the man he was.

-Lem

[[wcip]Angel]

some form of permanance.

Aaaahahahahahahahaha!!!


*rolling on the floor*


edit:

*more laughter*

[Occhidiangela]

The wonderful discussion to date in this thread.

I am shocked, I tell you, shocked!

How can you people be so insensitive to the environment? Cremation? For pity's sake, folks, pumping more carbon dioxide into the air, rather than feeding the plants? If one does not want to be buried, then how about we at least allow our bodies to be chopped up and fed to pigs, and indirectly help feed the starving orphans in GotNoFoodLand some Spam™ or sausage like meat byproduct.

Won't anyone think of the children?

I had directions drafted some years ago for the harvesting of whatever is usable by the medicos. Where I once wished the rest to be burned and sacttered at sea, I can't bear the thought that I would be a contributor to Global Warming by simply passing away.

Off to the pig trough it is, folks, with the satisfaction that I will nourish no Muslim.

As to the wake, my younger brother has a rather extensive song list I drew up a few years back, to be played at the wake/celebration that I no longer use up good people's air. My older brother has instructions for a small burial ceremony for my liver, which is to be harvested separately, with full military honors.

If one cannot take my passing on and learning life's final joke as an opportunity for a load of laughs at my expense, then don''t come to the party. If I know my sibs and cousins, and friends, at all, there will be much making of merry. None of this maudlin moping and moaning.

Stand up
The Guinness foams with head
Sun is setting
I have come to my journey's end
Laugh out loud
And speak of times and joy before
The memories call you
From times we all have shared before

Why do you weep?
What are these tears upon your face?
Soon you will see
Laughter makes your grief pass away

Drink and be glad
I'm up here streaking

Raise up your glass
To the horizon
Hear the toastmas-ter's call

I'm off to see
New jokes and wonders
Punch lines will fly
The stars dim and groan

When you tip up
That crystal glass
The shot sends my mem'ry
On laughter's wings
Into the West.

(With apologies to Annie Lennox)

Occhi

[Nystul]

I am shocked, I tell you, shocked!

How can you people be so insensitive to the environment? Cremation? For pity's sake, folks, pumping more carbon dioxide into the air, rather than feeding the plants?

Last I knew, carbon dioxide does feed the plants.:P

I prefer the traditional burial methods though. The last time I get to enjoy a campfire, I'd like to be on the outside looking in.

[Occhidiangela]

Last I knew, carbon dioxide does feed the plants.:P

I prefer the traditional burial methods though. The last time I get to enjoy a campfire, I'd like to be on the outside looking in.

Fine, feeding the worms then.

Won't someone think of our children's CO2 level?????? :blink:

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

Angel' date='Apr 11 2007, 05:24 PM' post='127466']
Aaaahahahahahahahaha!!!
*rolling on the floor*
edit:

*more laughter*

I am having a vision of an Occhidiangela soulstone crafted in the fashion suggested at that link.

I wonder if my kids would ram the stone into their foreheads and head east, always east, after I die.

Doubtful.

Occhi

[ShadowHM]

I am having a vision of an Occhidiangela soulstone crafted in the fashion suggested at that link.

I wonder if my kids would ram the stone into their foreheads and head east, always east, after I die.

Doubtful.

Occhi

They could always have it made into an eyebrow ring and keep you on their minds forever... :whistling:

[Lissa]

My father has already explained to me and my Mother how he wants his send off to be, a traditional Irish wake. He'd rather be cremated, put on a mantle for everyone to see, and then have everyone get smashed.

And if you're Irish, you'll realize the relevance behind; what's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish funneral? One less drinker... :lol:

[librarian]

Heiho,

Aaaahahahahahahahaha!!!
*rolling on the floor*
edit:

*more laughter*

well, technically it _can_ be done. Two things about that:

1) look at those pics and the estimated size of the gems. Again refer to some Physics about compactness (density? ... not sure about wording, whatever) of a small heap of ashes which otherwise fits neatly into a tin can and the compactness of a gem.
Having said a lot of uncomfortable pieces of my mind into other's faces during my life I surely don't want all what people are supposed to think of my remains is really a lie.

2) if I'm wrong, or if size doesn't matter I still don't want that last remain of my physical existence worn as kind of jewelry (someone mentioned the term 'trophy' before). Lived a life with no debts to anyone I surely don't want to end in a pawnshop neither ...

Still prefer the worms and maggots. When all's said and done Life is about eating and getting eaten. Come to think of it, if (physic) Death is as well it seems to be a honest thing to me.

[Griselda]

I guess the first priority with the new kind of funerals is to stay away from Keith Richards :P

I honestly haven't been to many funerals. Mostly, that's because of my age, but also because my (small) family is scattered across the country, and I've generally been encouraged not to come when a relative dies. I expect that will be different when my mom's mom goes, because my mom depends so heavily upon her still, but that's how it's been so far.

So, the only funeral that I can remember going to was for my father in law's mother's second husband, or something like that. That was more of the traditional model that you mentioned above, but it struck me as very odd, because the minister of the church had this very casual style of delivery that seemed out of place when everything else was so formal.

But, I do think that things are changing. I personally couldn't imagine wanting to be filled with chemicals and surrounded by concrete and then even more lawn chemicals. There's no "dust to dust" there. Yuk.

I heard an interview on NPR recently about eco-cemeteries. They sound really nice and peaceful in a way that modern cemeteries just aren't.

I can also see that, realistically, cremation may be the only practical solution with our current level of population.

[Lissa]

I attended an Irish wake a looooooong time ago. There was about 40 or so people there, most of the them Irish, and those that survived to see the sun rise had to be Irish by morning. An entire cask of extremely hard cider was gone... No clue how much was in a cask, but it was a small wooden barrel. Enough black oatmeal stout to float a battleship. Home made stuff. And home brewed single malt whisky. Over a gallon of that. All gone. When morning came, the casket was piled high with shot glasses to honour the dearly departed. There were people passed out piss drunk on the floor snoring away, some in puddles of their own vomit. There were two women completely passed out naked from the waist up, who had done a bit of a strip tease for the departed the night before. Several pairs of knickers from other ladies had been left in the casket, or hung off the casket. (The lid got closed some time in the night) There was even a boy of about 13 or so completely passed out piss drunk. And he had seen everything the night before. (Younger brother of the departed)

God bless the Irish. They put the fun back in to funeral.

As I noted below, the difference between an Irish Wedding and an Irish Funeral is one less drinker... :P

Being that my father's side of the family is Irish with a smidgeon of French in there, we're still trying to figure that one out, you can see where the funerals end up on that side... :whistling: