fireworks disaster

[eppie]

I'm not such an internet and computer expert as most of you, but (so, that's why) lately (a bit late) I stumbled on this youtube movie of the big disaster that occurred in spring 2000 in a dutch city I know very well.
So excuse me if it is a bit late, and I also have no idea if this footage has also been shown in the places where you lurkers live,but still.

A fireworks factory that, without most normal people knowing it was based in the middle of a residential area of Enschede, a city in the east of the Netherlands, exploded. When you click the link you will see the extend of the damage. 23 people were killed and a whole residential area was destroyed. Still today it remains unclear what caused it and what kind of fireworks were stored there (many people believe the army stored old explosives there).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARndUK0lre8

This (and other) videos still send shivers down my spine.


eppie

ps other videos about the disaster you can find on youtube, discovery channel also made a documentary

[Nystul]

2000 homes damaged... that is hard to even imagine. It seems like a building with that degree of explosive storage should be surrounded with green space.

[Occhidiangela]

Still today it remains unclear what caused it and what kind of fireworks were stored there (many people believe the army stored old explosives there).

Apparently, 1/3 of Americans thing 9-11 was an inside job, to include Rosie O'Donnel.

That does not make it true.

What evidence of the Dutch Army using a fireworks factory as a storage facility do you have, or have journalists/investigators, uncovered?

Occhi

[eppie]

Apparently, 1/3 of Americans thing 9-11 was an inside job, to include Rosie O'Donnel.

That does not make it true.

Like 95 % thought it was Saddam that did it...

What evidence of the Dutch Army using a fireworks factory as a storage facility do you have, or have journalists/investigators, uncovered?

Occhi

Well I don't believe this so I don't want to look for evidence.

Illegal fireworks is another more viable option. (so they were apparently allowed to store class a, but maybe they also had classB)

Fact is that the stuff that was stored there could cause this kind of explosion.....and it is not normal that such a company can have a factory in a city.

Now the report that investigators made will be made public in 70 years.....you can imagine that especially people that lived there find this not very nice. And speculations wont stop.


The fact can of course be that so much legal fireworks can cause this kind of explosion...which makes the government for a large part responsible.

[Lissa]

Illegal fireworks is another more viable option. (so they were apparently allowed to store class a, but maybe they also had classB)

Fact is that the stuff that was stored there could cause this kind of explosion.....and it is not normal that such a company can have a factory in a city.

The fact can of course be that so much legal fireworks can cause this kind of explosion...which makes the government for a large part responsible.

Something to consider, explosives have changed radically over the years. The dynamite of today is far more powerful than the dynamite made by Mr. Nobel in his day. Overall, Explosives have become far more condensed and, coincidently, more powerful for the same physical weight while burning more completely to maximize the power output. Mr. Nobel's explosive didn't burn nearly as completely nor quickly as today's explosives do and the energy/damage output, as can be seen in this tragedy, shows this.

[Occhidiangela]

Like 95 % thought it was Saddam that did it...

Please don't be an idiot.

What a lot of people were sold: that me might be the next to do it, not that he did it.

Occhi

[Lissa]

Please don't be an idiot.

What a lot of people were sold: that me might be the next to do it, not that he did it.

Occhi

Well, there is one person in that Administration that still thinks to this day that Saddam was involved... Hello Dick... :whistling:

[--Pete]

Hi,

The dynamite of today is far more powerful than the dynamite made by Mr. Nobel in his day.

Better binder, same old nitro. About the same bang per stick. The real improvement is that modern dynamite doesn't sweat, making it somewhat safer to use and a lot safer to store. Of course, the fact that nobody is making dynamite anymore (AFAIK) makes it still safer;)

Overall, Explosives have become far more condensed and, coincidently, more powerful for the same physical weight . . .

Yes and no. Black powder, nitro (and thus dynamite), TNT (trinitrotoluene), gun cotton, and a few other explosives that date back to the 1800's and earlier have really not changed much. With the exception of black powder (a mixture) they are all componds, thus the specific energy per molecule is constant for each type. In bulk, the specific energy is determied by the purity, but all these compounds are easy to purify and early on they got to .99 or better, so there was little room for improvement.

Advances in explosives in the twentieth century was mostly in stability, followed somewhat by specific energy. And, of course, the ammonium nitrate/fuel oil mixture so dearly loved by commercial users has cheapness (and relative safety) as its main drawing card.

Finally, if the explosion that is the topic of this thread was really of a fireworks factory, then pretty much the main explosive would have been either black powder or flash powder. Neither of these has changed much in over a century.

For more on explosives, see this which looked relatively correct and complete on a quick scan.

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

Well, there is one person in that Administration that still thinks to this day that Saddam was involved... Hello Dick... :whistling:

That does not equal 95% of America.

Occhi

[Thecla]

That does not equal 95% of America.

Occhi

Yes, 95% is an egregious and reprehensible exaggeration. It was merely 69%, or maybe 78%, (plus Dick Cheney);

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

[kandrathe]

Yes, 95% is an egregious and reprehensible exaggeration. It was merely 69%, or maybe 78%, (plus Dick Cheney);

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

I say we dig Saddam up, and water board him until he confesses to it. It might not work, but I know I would feel better.

Seriously, I would look for secondary explosions to come from other sources like natural gas containers, or some freak aerosol or particulate explosion. In order to get the scale of the secondary explosion I saw, you would need lots of compression and subsequently rapid gas expansion in the explosion. This might have been possible if the explosives were stored in somewhat sealed cargo containers, which when super heated acted like massive bombs. This is another reason why modern explosives are bigger. We understand now how to introduce substances, like water, into explosives to vastly increase the pressure wave.

[Occhidiangela]

Yes, 95% is an egregious and reprehensible exaggeration. It was merely 69%, or maybe 78%, (plus Dick Cheney);

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

That means there was roughly a 3 in four chance that you were one who bought that line of crap. Want me to roll a four sided die?

Occhi

[Thecla]

That means there was roughly a 3 in four chance that you were one who bought that line of crap. Want me to roll a four sided die?

Well, then, don't you wonder why it was that so many Americans did buy that line of crap? Or why, even before the invasion of Iraq, only 17% of Americans knew that none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqis, a fact available to any person who was even slightly informed?

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature...poll/index.html

[kandrathe]

Well, then, don't you wonder why it was that so many Americans did buy that line of crap? Or why, even before the invasion of Iraq, only 17% of Americans knew that none of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqis, a fact available to any person who was even slightly informed?

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature...poll/index.html

This is because our schools teach home room. recess, narcissism, lunch, more narcissism and study hall. If you don't like those courses you can opt out and still get passing grades. That is how low the bar is set.

Ask the average American anything pertinent and you will get the same result.

Here is a funny example from a recent movie; 5 Million Albums

Now, I might not agree with Jane Fonda's characters politics here, but I frequently also want to scream and leap at the Nicole, Paris, Brittany, Lindsey, etc., etc. ditzy, ditzy, ditzy. We are reaping the fruits of at least 20 years of dumbing it down. I shudder when any show goes to interview "the people on the street". I scream at my TV, "No, No, NO!!! Don't show the world how stupid they are!!!"

[eppie]

Please don't be an idiot.

What a lot of people were sold: that me might be the next to do it, not that he did it.

Occhi

Meeeeennn after 30 threads about this topic you still react....:P

[eppie]

Seriously, I would look for secondary explosions to come from other sources like natural gas containers, or some freak aerosol or particulate explosion. In order to get the scale of the secondary explosion I saw, you would need lots of compression and subsequently rapid gas expansion in the explosion. This might have been possible if the explosives were stored in somewhat sealed cargo containers, which when super heated acted like massive bombs. This is another reason why modern explosives are bigger. We understand now how to introduce substances, like water, into explosives to vastly increase the pressure wave.

I agree with you, this is also what I with my knowledge of explosives and detonations thought.

Gunpowder will only explode when it is in a sealed container. (there was much more then just gunpowder there by the way, so also explosive powders) But anyway, there were a lot of those (reasonably) sealed containers on that premesis. If one seacontainer containing a few tons of powder it might cause such an explosion (I would think).

[Occhidiangela]

Meeeeennn after 30 threads about this topic you still react....:P

After 30 threads, or more, on this topic, you still have no clue.

Occhi