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[Sheep]

Recently, I have been thinking more and more of resubscribing to WoW, and now that I've finished school, I'll actually have time to play. (Time to play that isn't at the expense of my grades, that is) I used to share an account with my brother, but as I'm moving away, I thought I might start fresh so that we could eventually play together.

It's been a while, and I have a few questions for you guys.

1) If I install using the same CDs as my brother, but get my own account, will we be able to play at the same time? (That's right, I don't even remember if there's a CD-key on this thing)

2) My favorite aspect of WoW were the battlegrounds. I was thinking of rolling, in descending order of interest, a Hunter, Druid, Mage or Warlock. Who has the most fun in the BGs? Or makes a better two-man team with a Rogue (Brother's first choice) or Priest (Bro's second choice)?

3) I'm not sure whether I want to shell out for the Burning Crusade, seeing as I never got to level 60 last time around. I suppose I could cross that bridge when I came to it. Anyways, what features won't I be able to access at lower levels running only vanilla WoW?

4) Where are Lurkers running around at low levels? :shuriken:

Thanks for the help, all.

[nobbie]

1.) The key that comes with WoW/TBC is for your subscription/bank account only, which you have to register separately on the WoW website. It has nothing to do with the client software itself.

2.) I personally would play a BM hunter in the battlegrounds, especially since the release of the overhauled WoW 2.x/TBC talent trees. But class choice is a matter of taste, and in PvP also a matter of which class you feel most comfortable with.

3.) The new races Blood Elf and Draenei, which have the best looking starting areas and quest lines in the game so far;)

4.) Ask a Lurker:)

[oldmandennis]

You have to purchase a retail version of WoW and TBC for every player. What CD's you install from is irrelevant.

Battlegrounds are a pretty stagnant part of the game right now. The one new BG is seen by most to be pretty unoriginal, and there is no indication or hints of anything else new. Flavor of the month for arena's is lock/priest, though that will probably change by the time you hit 70. That combo would play well in most BG's. Either that or rogue druid has some nice synergy as a double stealth.

The only thing you would miss would be the new starting area's, and jewel crafting.

[Monkey]

2) My favorite aspect of WoW were the battlegrounds. I was thinking of rolling, in descending order of interest, a Hunter, Druid, Mage or Warlock. Who has the most fun in the BGs? Or makes a better two-man team with a Rogue (Brother's first choice) or Priest (Bro's second choice)?

If you think you'll be spending the majority of your time in battlegrounds lower than 60 (AB and WSG), I'd recommend Druid/Rogue. That would let you have fun with stealing flags and nodes or defending flags and nodes.

And with just a tad of overleveling, you can stealth-duo sections of some instances. For example: I did the level 50 class quests in the sunken temple with another druid for company (we were 52 and 55, I think). It generally requires you to push your limits and really preplan your pulls, but it's a lot of fun. And since you'll have two feints, a vanish, and a taunt, you'd be able to put together some crazy combos to beat bosses.

Another great team for PvE leveling is feral druid and shadow priest (I leveled 60-70 in such a team). DPS, Tanking, and Healing all in one two-character package. Shiny! :w00t:

[Sheep]

Are vanilla characters unable to enter the starting areas, then? I remember hitting up all the starting areas as a Tauren. Is this different?

And since you'll have two feints, a vanish, and a taunt, you'd be able to put together some crazy combos to beat bosses.

I'm not sure I read you on this one. You mean bouncing aggro back and forth?

I've been reading up on Arenas, and they sound like a blast! Pity they only become available at level 70, though. Are Priest and Warlock teams in style because of fear kiting?

Aren't you a Lurker, nobbie?

I suppose my actual question pertaining to Battlegrounds was: "Which character class strikes fear into your heart when you see it coming your way?" ;)

[VoiceMan]

I suppose my actual question pertaining to Battlegrounds was: "Which character class strikes fear into your heart when you see it coming your way?" ;)

That all depends on which class you are. With my druid, the things that caused me the most problems were warlocks and hunters. With my rogue, it was hunters and warlocks. With my hunter, it was rogues. Now that I'm a warlock, the one class that gives me alot of trouble is warrior, and good rogues cause me grief as well. So I think that there's not a real clear cut answer to that question. Every class has things that are good. Right now Feral druids are almost more powerful in BG's than rogues are. Resto druids are really irritating as well. They can't hardly do anything to you, but they're almost impossible to kill, and they just outlast you til they get help to come smash you. :P

Having PvP'd quite extensively with a hunter, druid, rogue, and warlock, I say go with the class you enjoy the most. If you learn to play it well, you'll be effective in PvP.

[Taelas]

Are vanilla characters unable to enter the starting areas, then? I remember hitting up all the starting areas as a Tauren. Is this different?

Yes. You can't enter the starting areas without the expansion pack.

[Tal]

I suppose my actual question pertaining to Battlegrounds was: "Which character class strikes fear into your heart when you see it coming your way?" ;)

I don't pvp on my warrior anymore (respecc'd to prot) so on my holy paladin its a warlock followed by a rogue. MS warriors used to worry me but if I'm smart I can keep them tied up until a friendly dps'er can come along.

[Delc]

I suppose my actual question pertaining to Battlegrounds was: "Which character class strikes fear into your heart when you see it coming your way?" ;)

Good rogues, and deathwish warriors. But that is as a warlock. Everyone else would probably have warlock on that list. Affliction is great fun in the BGs, just run in a throw dots on everything. With a pocket healer you can really make a mess of a small group defending a spot.

[Kevin]

I don't pvp on my warrior anymore (respecc'd to prot) so on my holy paladin its a warlock followed by a rogue. MS warriors used to worry me but if I'm smart I can keep them tied up until a friendly dps'er can come along.

I guess you don't run into good hunters on the pally then. On average I can actually kill a holy paladin faster than a holy priest on my hunter (the renews and shields and the potential fear from the holy priest will buy them nearly as much time in a 1v1 as the 12s bubble and plate armor on the pally and the pally often doesn't have the bubble in BGs). Both of them take a long time to solo though if they are self healing and the pally will get heals on other folks while the priest won't if they have the bubble. The priest will die faster if I have any help though. But it was something interesting that I noticed the other day that my speed in killing heal spec healers seems to be shaman, pallies, priests, druids. This is odd because in arenas it seems to be druids, priests, shaman, pallies.

And in a "solo" situation in a battleground I mean I target the healer during some 5 v 5 or 3 v 8 or 12 v 9 or whatever type of skirmish on the field and no one else is doing damage so the priest/pally may be in the process of healing someone else or still trying to heal someone else and/or themselves. So it's not just me and the healer off in open space with just each other to worry about as mentioned that would change things again. But I'm finding the hunter is a good paladin killer. I hit them hard enough that FoL spam won't keep up and HL spam with a few stings will get them OOM faster even if they put up concentration aura and I can't stutter them. In BG's it's the HoTs and the ability to get in the deadzone that really make it hard for a hunter to kill a healer. Pallies and priests are easy to keep away, but the priest can still hurt me via DoTs the pally can't hurt me. The priest fear can also be a huge problem as I may have used my trinket already and since I'm beast I may have beastial wrath cooling as well. Druids can get in my dead zone via bear charge, rooting, and even cat sprint or they can get out of my range in the same ways they can also apply a decent amount of healing on the move, like a priest. They can also DoT me from range. Shaman have issues getting into range, but once they do have the best tools to keep me there. They can get a weak DoT on me as well. But paladins don't have a lot of options vs the hunter other than to run at me, try to heal through it, or bubble. If they bubble I just attack a DPS that isn't in the pallies healing range while I wait out the bubble (the pally will often charge at me while under the bubble as well but I don't fear holy pally DPS).



Back to the general question. On my undead warlock the only thing I worried about was a rogue that used their cooldowns well and fury warriors. Arms and prot warriors I could still generally keep away and melt via DoTs. 3 minute mages that outgeared me could be an issues as well. The warlock has not PvP'd in the expansion but I got her to rank 10 and a lot of rep rewards pre expansion. I've actually got more kills on her than any other toon. But generally I feared nothing. I would actually initiate combat vs 2 and sometimes 3 alliance and expect to win (I used the ho and made liberal use of seduce). If a rogue jumped me, I expected to win (this got a lot harder when cloak of shadows showed up). Seduction and fear are powerful in BG's. Chain seducing warriors even with my DoTs running helped a lot, though they could still get me at times and good ones would take the time to hit the ho once or twice to kill it. TBC may have changed up some of this.

My paladin only really worried about good hunters and warlocks. Rogues could kill me but they took so long to do it that I felt like it was a win because they could have killed 4 other folks in the time it took to kill me. And even then on the pally I didn't worry too much because even in PuGs I could generally live long enough, even under focus fire to get help from my teammates, unless my bubble was down and if that was the case I was probably low on or out of mana. Paladin was again all pre TBC and was alliance

On my alliance warrior who was prot for most of his PvP career it was mostly a case of I could only kill rogues and mages reliably (he was a gnome, escape artist messed with mages it threw off their rythm). When he was arms I could beat most anyone who wasn't very good at PvP and lose to folks that were good at PvP. Well and rogues. My fury warrior horde side is a good warlock killer, and I'm getting pretty good against hunters. The issue again is that I get focus fired a lot or take a lot of incidental damage from various AoEs.

My horde shaman did most of his PvP post TBC (a little bit pre TBC). He's a bit odd since I'm 40 enh / 21 resto. The NS heal can get me out of several jams. I tend to play him as a healer till I'm pretty much OOM then go DW and get some WF/Frostbrand procs and pwn people who don't expect it. I wear obvious healer/caster shoulders and an obvious healer shield/weapon in healer gear but the rest of the gear is melee. Folks don't seem to expect the types of burst the DW stormstrike windfury proc can put out and I've seen folks just stop after I do it since I do a lot of healing. The shaman seems that I can kill anything or be killed by anything in BGs. I've had full health/mana fights vs the same people in the same BG and been pwn and pwnd them. I think this is because for me the shaman damage is luck based. If I get WF procs and they crit I can see 4K damage on one swing (MH normal, MH 2xWF crits, OH hit). If nothing procs the MH + OH is more like 500 damage. That's a huge difference in what happens.

My hunter has the most issues with rogues and good warriors now. Warlock DoTs will sometimes kill me after I've killed the lock. Some mages can sometimes get some luck and burst me down before I kill them but it's not common. Very few other hunters will ever beat me in 1v1 situations. Part of this is because I'm not PvP spec. I'm beast/survival. It's not a bad build for PvP. But what I'm noticing is that I need my cooldowns. I don't have scatter shot which on the 30s cooldown makes it much more available. I have a 1 minute stun (if my pet is by me and not stuttering a healer) and 2 minute minute 18 second get out of jail free card and a 5 minute 10 seconds of melee isn't gonna hurt me in deterrance. I don't have improved wing clip but I do have entrapment. So again it's not an ideal build for PvP and it's why rogues and warriors are much harder for me than other hunters. And now that I can't trust a freezing trap as a get distance for free thanks to trinkets it's even harder. I'll still use them at times, but the frost trap and snakes (since they can proc entrapment now too) get a lot more use. Snakes with crippling poison are generally the preference in a 1v1, frost gets dropped in bigger skirmishes since it helps my team mates more. But if I have all of my cooldowns I fear nothing. If I don't have any I get worried about rogues and feral druids jumping me (and the cooldown on flare and bit of time it takes to cast it since you need to target it and it doesn't reveal till it lands means they can now). People say just scare beast on the druid but it's a 1.5s cast, they can trinket out of it and it only has a 10 yard range. So if the cat isn't stuttering it while hitting me with 2K mangles they can just out range it or do a quick shape change to break the channel. And the shifting to prevent my snares will hurt as well. But if I have my cooldowns I can get range easy and even with feral charges keep it or do enough damage in that time to kill them. Even with my cooldowns rogues can still cause me grief. But the thing with rogues is that I almost never run into them alone in a BG. If a rogue jumps me some invisible mage or another rogue or another druid or a shadowmelded NE hunter comes out and hurts me while the rogue keeps me stunlocked and helpless.


I didn't PvP much on my alliance druid, but a good shaman would be a real pain in the ass for me, I think that was because I wasn't good with entangling roots or I would end up meeting them while inside.


But in general I hate seeing rogues the most in BG's. They are simply the most annoying class to fight because they have the most ways to make you lose control of your toon and since many of them seem to run mind numbing + crippling they are hard to get away from. And most rogue players are better at movement than me which means some of it is a L2P situation.

Mostly what I fear in PvP is good focus fire from the other team though. :)

And I feel the most godlike when I'm on my warrior or hunter and getting healing support. A hunter getting healed in a battle grounds can be evil because the healing will let them live through the melee pounding on them and they can still wipe out the ranged folks that may be around then deal with the melee on them and if the melee moves to the healer I pwn them. Arena's this doesn't work as well because of the LoS issues that can develop a lot more readily than in BGs. But there is a reason I prefer to get the new graveyard arena on my hunter. It has the least options for LoS games, it's a lot easier for my hunter to just kill someone else while getting healed or kill the people beating on the healer than in the other BGs. The lock getting healed didn't raise the power level as much, same with the shaman and pally. It doesn't change a lot. It does help the shaman if I don't have to do any other healing and can be random burst damage monster. It helped the druid kill a bit faster because I didn't have to do shifting stuff. But healing a warrior or a hunter ups their power in PvP a ton. I know it helps everyone but those two classes are hard enough to burst down right now (hunters with FD to mess up spell casts and good skills to keep range don't burst down fast) that healing really ups what they can do. Even with healing you can burst many mages and locks fast enough to make it not matter. At least that is what it seems like to me.

[Tal]

I'm mostly coming from the viewpoint of a one on one. In a group situation I'm usually just worried about keeping my dps alive. If I SEE a hunter then I try to get within their kill zone which usually tips off the DPS that he's pounding on me.

[Kevin]

I'm mostly coming from the viewpoint of a one on one. In a group situation I'm usually just worried about keeping my dps alive. If I SEE a hunter then I try to get within their kill zone which usually tips off the DPS that he's pounding on me.

Yeah that is another huge advantage hunters have when killing healers in group situations (though as mentioned I see a pally riding somewhere and I'll pick them off solo as well). Staying on the fringes and pummeling folks. But if I'm picking off someone who ended up away from their group I still kill pallies easier than any other healer than the shaman. Of course this generally means I have the jump on the healer. But pallies have a much harder time getting any damage into me than other healers and my pet will put damage onto the pally even if I can't.

[Sheep]

Thanks for all the posts, guys!

I have another question, of course: Is it worth it to try and get PvP rewards while still leveling up, or is low-level PvP just for kicks?

Off topic, what are Heroics?

Please and thanks.

[vor_lord]

Off topic, what are Heroics?

For the new 5 man instances that came out with TBC, they come with two difficulty settings. Heroic difficulty is tuned for level 70 instances (whereas normal may be tuned anywhere from level 60 - 70 depending on the instance). Heroics are quite a bit more difficult than the normal difficulty, and there is better loot to be had.

[Legedi]

I have another question, of course: Is it worth it to try and get PvP rewards while still leveling up, or is low-level PvP just for kicks?

Only if you intend to stay at that level bracket for a long time (aka, twinks). If you are leveling and just happen to do PvP along the way I would not bother spending honor on items that will be junk in a few weeks.

I personally don't have any twink toons, but I know a lot of people that do that really enjoy it.

[oldmandennis]

Heroics are quite a bit more difficult than the normal difficulty, and there is better loot to be had.

It's a bit of an understatement. Heroics are like a 5 man raid. Most mobs will 1shot clothies, and 3-4 shot a dps warrior. You are guaranteed a primal nether drop off the last boss which is used in all high end crafting, and is only a 5% drop off a level 70 normal instance. There are a fair number of epics, and all the bosses drop badges of justice, which can be exchanged for more epics.

[Taelas]

They require more focus than an ordinary 5-man instance, but some Heroic instances are rather easy (I used to swipe-tank some Heroics before I stopped playing on Alliera). I haven't visited the harder Heroics (Arcatraz, Shattered Halls), so I can't comment on those.

[Kevin]

They require more focus than an ordinary 5-man instance, but some Heroic instances are rather easy (I used to swipe-tank some Heroics before I stopped playing on Alliera). I haven't visited the harder Heroics (Arcatraz, Shattered Halls), so I can't comment on those.

Yeah. My opinion on the heroics on average is they are no harder than normals if you do the normals level and gear appropriate. Steam Vaults with the whole group at L68 (tank can be 69 so only -3 on the end boss if you like) on normal is not really any different than a heroic SV after you have end game blues.

Very few people bother with normal instances in appropriate gear or level (and when you hit L70 I actually think you are overleveled for all the normal instances, -3 to the boss is what they do for raids. It's my standard for a normal as well you are only -2 at L70). And people that were decked out in AQ40/Naxx gear already had end game blues equivalents for many classes when the hit Outlands so they had pretty much no chance to do it. This is not true for all classes, but for many, even BWL gear was better than blues till you hit Sethekk and higher.


Now this is not true for all heroics. Blood Furnace on heroic is much less forgiving of group composition and mistakes. But for a tank in just a few quest blues and Outlands greens, you can get 2 shotted by the felguards on normal and can easily have issues with heal aggro as well since they likely don't have any +hit in tank gear, and can take a hit for 3K+ of their 6K life. The healer in a few quests blues and outlands greens at L61 or so can get one shot by a crit. It's not a garuntee though. But it takes crits or crushes generally it's not as easy to happen on normal as it is on heroic. And the 2nd boss is much much easier to deal with for a group that doesn't have a fear or sheep on normal becasue you can at least slow and kite the mobs on heroic you can't. Trying to do heroic BF without a priest or lock or mage is very likely not going to get past the waves on that boss even though getting there won't be hard at all.

There are other fights and mobs in some of the heroics that are also out of whack with how the rest of the instance feels on heroic (though a lot of that has been nerfed now as well).

But 90% of fights on heroics (many bosses included) don't really feel much different than they do on normal if you are gear and level appropriate (again that is -3 at best -2 to the end boss).

[Monkey]

I'm not sure I read you on this one. You mean bouncing aggro back and forth?

Yeah, trading aggro so the "tank" can heal himself. My main experience is running around with two druids, though. A rogue might need to evasion-tank, but it still seems possible to me.