Strafe

[Taem]

I'm a bit confused on how strafe works;

1st, it says it does 3/4 weapon damage, but it adds +5% damage per skill level... so at say skill level 20, it adds 100% damage of your bow at a 3/4 capacity?

2nd, at skill level 20, it says it will attack up to 10-monsters, however what if you are only attacking one monster, such as a boss; will you shoot 10-strafing arrows at it, or only 1?

3rd, is the damage bonus, the +100% at skill level 20, added to each and every strafed arrow, or is it divided evenly among all 10-arrows you fire?

I think that about covers it. I'm starting up D again with my son and started with one of my favorites, the amazon. Can't decided to go typical multi/guided, multi/strafe, or freezing arrow +all synergies.

After thought; if the answer to question #3 is yes, the damage is applied to each and every arrow, then why would anyone bother taking Guided Arrow when strafe does about 950% more damage for only 8-mana more?

> Another thought, but totally different: With Sacrifice for the Paladin class, does the 8% damage to self happen after life steal, before life steal, or concurrently with life steal? If you pumped Redemption, Fanaticism, and Sacrifice all to 20, Sacrifice would be doing +865% damage before adding in the Fanaticism aura or other damage modifiers. If you had a good weapon, you could easily be causing yourself way more damage than you have life, and if life steal and the penalty for using Sacrifice don't occur concurrently, that skill is completely useless.

[librarian]

Heiho,

I'm a bit confused on how strafe works;

1st, it says it does 3/4 weapon damage, but it adds +5% damage per skill level... so at say skill level 20, it adds 100% damage of your bow at a 3/4 capacity?

the damage per skill level is physical offweapon damage only, that is, it'll equal to 100 points in dexterity. The 3/4 penalty is global and reduces your overall damage output (including elemental damage from equip).

2nd, at skill level 20, it says it will attack up to 10-monsters, however what if you are only attacking one monster, such as a boss; will you shoot 10-strafing arrows at it, or only 1?

You will fire ten arrows at a single enemy, but due to the Next Hit / Next Delay mechanism not all of them may get a collision detection granted. Without collision detection they simply fly through your enemy (there's even no Chance to Hit check).
Usually you aim for a 2fpa Strafe. Versus a single enemy only a third of your salve will get a collision detection, since Strafe missiles have a Next Delay timer of four frames. You could aim for a slow Starfe cycle with 5fpa, so every arrow gets a collision check. But then you're in permanent danger, since you're immobile for two seconds during the salve.

3rd, is the damage bonus, the +100% at skill level 20, added to each and every strafed arrow, or is it divided evenly among all 10-arrows you fire?

It's added to each arrow.

I think that about covers it. I'm starting up D again with my son and started with one of my favorites, the amazon. Can't decided to go typical multi/guided, multi/strafe, or freezing arrow +all synergies.

For a start, focus on FA with CA syns (IcA syns are pointless), and use Multi at around sLvl12-15 for the physical part. For playing a bowie from scratch this is the most item-independent build.

After thought; if the answer to question #3 is yes, the damage is applied to each and every arrow, then why would anyone bother taking Guided Arrow when strafe does about 950% more damage for only 8-mana more?

Because GA hast autotarget and autohit. Strafe has just autoaim, which is in addition to the mentioned Delay stuff still subject to Chance to Hit check, Block check, and will anyway go poof quite often if your enemy moves sidewards.

> Another thought, but totally different: With Sacrifice for the Paladin class, does the 8% damage to self happen after life steal, before life steal, or concurrently with life steal? If you pumped Redemption, Fanaticism, and Sacrifice all to 20, Sacrifice would be doing +865% damage before adding in the Fanaticism aura or other damage modifiers. If you had a good weapon, you could easily be causing yourself way more damage than you have life, and if life steal and the penalty for using Sacrifice don't occur concurrently, that skill is completely useless.

Self-Damage is inflicted before Leech steps in. Yes, this is dangerous, especially against enemies with comparably low life.
Sacrifice gets its fascination from that. Does a lot of damage, but requires always attention. There's lots of monsters from which you can't leech, as an example.

[Taem]

May I ask, what is the difference of playing with FA as opposed to just using a perfect blue gem in your bow and a Holy Freeze merc? What is the benefit of taking FA as opposed to saving those skill points for Valk?

Also, in PvM, is penetrate even neccessary with the amount of Dex I'll be investing into my amazon? I only play hardcore so 1/2 my points will be going into Vit instead of Dex, however I can't imagine putting more than 5-10 points into penetrate at the most.

EDIT - sorry thought I was replying to you dirrectly librarian, not just the thread; my appologies.

[librarian]

Heiho,

no worries, I always use Standard View :-)

FA is mostly skill-based damage, independent from your weapon damage, so it doesn't require a particularly good bow/xbow. Going Strafe/Multi will need a decent bow, more so if you want to spend some amount of stats into vita. Mileages vary, but I think you don't stand a chance later on with a worse bow than, say, Lycander's, if you rely on physical damage.
FA freezes your enemies (Holy Freeze and/or cold damage will just slow them down).

You want to invest points in Pierce, since in a bulk of enemies the FA splash will add with the next splash, thus, against tight packs, each individual will suffer damage from multiple splashes. This adds up to some very decent damage. It needs some herding of enemies sometimes, but it is Bowie's best damage booster with no equip.

Don't boost Penetrate too early on. Always check your CtH with Standard Attack in char screen.

FA splash doesn't do a CtH check, but for piercing (remember, multiple splashes) it's essential.

A blueprint I've always considered as viable without equipment fancies would be

CA/IcA/FA -> 20/1/20
MagA -> 1
Multi -> about 12-15 (or 1 if focus on Strafe)
GA -> 1
Strafe -> to your taste, I've always enjoyed using the skill, but it is really inferior to Multi in many aspects

IS/SlM/Decoy -> 1/1/1 (if you spend that much points into vit Decoy is sturdy enough at base)
Valk -> to reach 8 with adders
D/A/E -> 1/1/1
CS -> 16 (doesn't improve significantly further on)
Pene -> depends on actual CtH
Pierce -> 16 (see CS)

If spare points available, push Pene

You see this one needs about 94 points, which will need cLvl82 and all quest rewards. My chars met their destiny (defeating Ball/Hell) in 1.1x usually at ca. cLvl90, so this would be ok.

As a side note to the order of allocation, don't push Multi hard early on, you won't be able to keep the blue mana bubble. If focussing on cold early on it's quite manageable to use FA base while improving the CA synergy first, this also keeps mana cost low.

[Taem]

CA/IcA/FA -> 20/1/20
MagA -> 1
Multi -> about 12-15 (or 1 if focus on Strafe)
GA -> 1
Strafe -> to your taste, I've always enjoyed using the skill, but it is really inferior to Multi in many aspects

IS/SlM/Decoy -> 1/1/1 (if you spend that much points into vit Decoy is sturdy enough at base)
Valk -> to reach 8 with adders
D/A/E -> 1/1/1
CS -> 16 (doesn't improve significantly further on)
Pene -> depends on actual CtH
Pierce -> 16 (see CS)

If spare points available, push Pene

Your build and my build around 1.09 look very similar (that's about when I stopped playing D2). I always found a freeze merc was more than adaquate to to keep the baddies at bay so long as I had knock-back in my bow, and I never bothered pumping mana, and if I remember correctly FA dosent leech which is why I never liked it much. With a poor bow, it did take awhile to kill baddies, but that didn't matter much with Knockback and Holy Freeze, because they could never reach me anyways. This was my build:

5-8 Multi (I figured at least 3+ in amazon bow skills)
20 Guided Arrow
7 Critical Strike (past skill level 7, your gains are 2 or lower and not worth the investment IMO)
1+ Penetrate (as you say, as needed)
9 Pierce (after this, diminishing returns kick in greatly)
6 D/A/E (after this, diminishing returns kick in greatly)
1+ Decoy
1+ Valk

All in all, this will use up 66 skill points to complete, with the rest ready to be put into Penetrate as needed, Decoy for the extra time if neccessary at all, and mostly Valk.

I would always put at least 134 into Strength for the dream of finding a Windforce, and the rest would split evenly into Dex and Vit.

[librarian]

Heiho,

Your build and my build around 1.09 look very similar (that's about when I stopped playing D2).

... apart from FA, which you disliked, and GA, which I wouldn't max out in PvM ...

I always found a freeze merc was more than adaquate to to keep the baddies at bay so long as I had knock-back in my bow, and I never bothered pumping mana, and if I remember correctly FA dosent leech which is why I never liked it much. With a poor bow, it did take awhile to kill baddies, but that didn't matter much with Knockback and Holy Freeze, because they could never reach me anyways.

With FA and Pierce it won't need so much time. Against non-immune, that is ;-)
Oh, and FA (the main arrow) does leech in 1.1x. Also Mana after each Kill is a property much underrated for for part-time-Magezons.

GA doesn't pierce anymore in 1.1x, so don't be surprised when old cheesemonger playing style won't suffice as good as back in 1.09. Also the targetting ability is nerfed greatly compared to 1.09.

And one comment about D/A/E:
Dodge and especially Avoid will be a great nuisance while Strafing, since they interrupt your shooting serverside (game engine) despite showing your shooting client side (graphics). Well, you need them to get a proper Valk. Evade is great. especially while herding.

I would always put at least 134 into Strength for the dream of finding a Windforce, and the rest would split evenly into Dex and Vit.

I would spare some points. For any decent bow besides WF and upped Buriza you need about 100 points strength, give and take some. A Hydra Bow must be either WF or a godly rare to be worth the strength. Believe me, I've played a 1.09 Bowie with a cruel Hydra, and she ended using a (unupped) Buriza in 1.11, since the Hydra Bow has such a big min-max damage span. And I never was a speed freak. In the time you've needed to find a sufficient Hydra bow you also have stumbled over some +5 str charms, which you may keep. 20 stats spared until cLvl70 won't kill you, IMHO, even in HC. I'd rather spare some points than pushing str to 134 'just in case'.

[Taem]

I decided to try out my old build, but I did keep your FA build close to my heart. As a matter of fact, it's the very next build I will attempt. Currently, my zon is level 62 and is able to clear Chaos Sanctuary in Nightmare by herself very quickly; most enemies die in 2-hits or less with 2ppl in the game. I was lucky enough to get my hands on a Lycanders Aim, but before then I was using a Skystrike and while I could kill, it did take awhile.

Oh, and FA (the main arrow) does leech in 1.1x. Also Mana after each Kill is a property much underrated for for part-time-Magezons.

Humm, this is very interesting. Just the physical damage of the arrow itself, or all the damage caused by FA?

GA doesn't pierce anymore in 1.1x, so don't be surprised when old cheesemonger playing style won't suffice as good as back in 1.09. Also the targetting ability is nerfed greatly compared to 1.09.

Doesn't really bother me. I always throw up a Decoy towards the very edge of the screen and if a pack of monsters ran at it, multi-multi-multi until they were all dead, re-casting decoy as needed, but usually my Valk and Merc are adequate tanks. Stragglers (and bosses) get a nice little GA aimed at them to finish them off.

And one comment about D/A/E:
Dodge and especially Avoid will be a great nuisance while Strafing, since they interrupt your shooting serverside (game engine) despite showing your shooting client side (graphics). Well, you need them to get a proper Valk. Evade is great.

I don't care much for Strafe. I'm going Multi/GA. I've found the whole D/A/E to be extremely effective at saving me if baddies somehow get past my decoy, Valk, Merc, and hail of multi-arrows.

I would spare some points. For any decent bow besides WF and upped Buriza you need about 100 points strength, give and take some. A Hydra Bow must be either WF or a godly rare to be worth the strength. Believe me, I've played a 1.09 Bowie with a cruel Hydra, and she ended using a (unupped) Buriza in 1.11, since the Hydra Bow has such a big min-max damage span. And I never was a speed freak. In the time you've needed to find a sufficient Hydra bow you also have stumbled over some +5 str charms, which you may keep. 20 stats spared until cLvl70 won't kill you, IMHO, even in HC. I'd rather spare some points than pushing str to 134 'just in case'.

Yes, I agree to a point, however I have always loved speed over high damage. Back in 1.04 I used a rare double-bow and achieved (if memory serves me) a 6-FPS attack. The damage per shot was minimal, but the attack speed was so quick that the overall damage was equal to, if not more than a high damage bow. My perfect setup will have me at 9-FPS with a good damage bow. In 1.09, shooting FA at that speed would completely drain your mana in less than 1-2 seconds.

[librarian]

Heiho,

Just the physical damage of the arrow itself, or all the damage caused by FA?

physical damage of arrow only :-)
Otherwise it'd be slightly out of balance.

[Archon_Wing]

May I ask, what is the difference of playing with FA as opposed to just using a perfect blue gem in your bow and a Holy Freeze merc? What is the benefit of taking FA as opposed to saving those skill points for Valk?

Instead of chilling and slowing foes down, Frozen Arrow stops enemies solid, which give you a lot of leisure time and is very useful in party play with melee characters since it's much easier to take out enemies that can't attack you at all.;)With some good pierce, you can freeze the whole screen, and sometimes beyond with a few shots.

Also Meat, if you like speed, you should try aiming your stats for a matriarchal bow and make the harmony runeword. This is much less out of your way as matriarchal bows really only require dex that you are getting anyways. The runes and a 4 socket matri bow aren't exactly the easiest things to find, but it should be easier than a windforce. You might even find a good rare (they are better than in 1.09) but I feel there is very little reason to aim for a hydra bow unless you already have a Windforce. Crusader bows are better than hydra bows in every other case, as Crusaders have slightly lower average damage but much less requirements which means more points in dex or vitality.

Also, an upgraded lycander's aim can't be ignored either.

[Taem]

Instead of chilling and slowing foes down, Frozen Arrow stops enemies solid, which give you a lot of leisure time and is very useful in party play with melee characters since it's much easier to take out enemies that can't attack you at all.;)With some good pierce, you can freeze the whole screen, and sometimes beyond with a few shots.

Also Meat, if you like speed, you should try aiming your stats for a matriarchal bow and make the harmony runeword. This is much less out of your way as matriarchal bows really only require dex that you are getting anyways. The runes and a 4 socket matri bow aren't exactly the easiest things to find, but it should be easier than a windforce. You might even find a good rare (they are better than in 1.09) but I feel there is very little reason to aim for a hydra bow unless you already have a Windforce. Crusader bows are better than hydra bows in every other case, as Crusaders have slightly lower average damage but much less requirements which means more points in dex or vitality.

Also, an upgraded lycander's aim can't be ignored either.

Alright, I got a Lycanders Aim but I can't get my attack speed over 11 FPS. Anyways, I had 34 extra points to spend and no idea where I wanted to place them, so I did some comparisons between Guided Arrow, Strafe, and Frozen-Arrow. Sorry my table is a bit messy, but I'm not sure how to make tables in HTML (I know this isn't a valid excuse with the internet and all, but I don't have the time to research it right now).

________________GA_St_FA

• Skill Points__20_20_41<>
  
• #Enemies___1__10_Mob
  <span style="color:#666666">Note: GA and FA attack at normal FPS, whereas St attacks at almost double your FPS<>
  
• +DMG___115%_120%_+1300<>
  
• Special__Auto targets_Fast Attack_Freezes<>
  
• Drawbacks_1-enemy @a time__Strafe Lock/Next Hit Delay__2x Skill points/Only physical arrow leeches<>
  [st]So the verdict? After careful comparison, I've decided that GA is a great skill to have, but with 1-point only! Strafe has too many drawbacks, and strafe-lock in hell is downright deadly in hardcore. So I'm trying Freezing Arrow for the first time ever and I'll see how it goes. I invested the points last night and set FA and GA to the left mouse button and hotkeyed them, then did some trial runs in Nightmare in Frigid and was pleasantly surprised; I have on a Tal's Mask and ring with 4% mana steal and I hardly ever saw my mana deplete, and when it did, I simply switched over to GA or spammed multi at a crowd. I'm getting used to the 3-attack sequence and it will undoubtedly take some time, but from what I saw, I liked it. Thanks for the suggestion.
  
  
  EDIT: I may make a Strafe only Amazon someday to compare apples to oranges, but I think I will very much enjoy using FA this season. I think Strafe (if it worked correctly past 4FPS) would be the most damaging attack to use against bosses. As it stands now, I can get FA down to a 8 or 9 FPS attack with some good gear and a good bow and do ultimately about the same amount of damage to a boss, but no freeze. The defining factor that makes FA ultimately better than the rest is it's piercing ability to destroy a mob. Also Strafe hits 10 enemies, sure, but the entire Strafe takes much longer - even at 2 FPS - than shooting FA at 9 FPS at a mob does. The damage from attacking 10 enemies at once as opposed to an entire mob rapidly with FA does not even begin to compare; no, FA is superior in every way on paper.

[Archon_Wing]

I messed up on my hc frost madien, and tried to spend points in the fire tree, which failed miserably. If I had a chance to remake her, which I probaly won't in hc, I'd probaly spend those dozen pts in penetrate.

Something like Max FA/CA, Max valk, 5 strafe, 5-10 pierce, 1 in other passives, and rest go into penetrate. I found that my attack rating was a bit lacking, though this was more due to me keeping my dex low (putting it in vitality instead) and was playing her more of a caster.

She was using a 2 shaeled upgraded witchwild string, treachery armor, razortail for the great pierce, and 20 ias blood gloves with bow skills. That got her shooting FA at 8 frames with amp occasionaly going off and valk doing decent damage as well. Venom from treachery adds some extra oomph although that sorta makes your poison charms pretty useless (they all get scaled to venom's .4 second duration) The fade going off can help with resists.

Overall I didn't really see strafe lock as an huge issue as I'd really just use it to leech some mana or slowly whittle down a cold immune. Decoy, valks, and mercs handle it fine. The best advantage to strafe is probably that you don't need to aim. It is one mana draining build though and mana leech can't cope with it. Needed an insight and a healthy amount of +mana items to compensate. Yea, play it like a mage.:P