The Nvidia GeForce 8800GT looks incredible

[DeeBye]

Nvidia launched a new 8800-series model this week, and it's getting some incredible reviews.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,16...204,00.asp
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/29/geforce_8800_gt/

Performance-wise, it trails the 8800GTX by about 10%. However, at a MSRP of $250 it's about half the price. Surprisingly, it vastly outperforms the ~$400 8800GTS by a good margin.

At this moment, there is no other video card on the market that can compete with the 8800GT. There are some that are a tiny bit faster, but the performance versus price of the 8800GT is absolutely unbelievable.

What's really exciting for me is that ever since the Canadian dollar overtook the US greenback, lots of Canadian online retailers have been slashing prices like crazy. I can finally buy computer hardware in Canada without suffering a 100% markup over American retailers:) I'm going to save my pennies over the next couple of weeks and replace my trusty old 7600GS.

[Quark]

At this moment, there is no other video card on the market that can compete with the 8800GT. There are some that are a tiny bit faster, but the performance versus price of the 8800GT is absolutely unbelievable.

It gets better. The $250 is a high estimate from Nvidia. They expect the card to reach $200 for the 512MB version shortly, with the 256MB version being even cheaper (though I'd stick with the 512MB). Ati is releasing a competing card w/in 2 weeks, and Nvidia has an ace up their sleeves ... a new 8800GTS (512MB/1G) that contains all the improvements of the 8800GT with 128 shaders (8800GT has 112, the old 8800GTS has 96, 8800GTX has 128), higher clock speeds, and supposedly more ROPs (the only part of the 8800GT that could be called lacking compared to the old 8800GTS).

So even with just how amazing of a price/performance improvement the 8800GT is, there will be faster cards coming out quickly. The 8800GT might still be the sweet spot, though, depending on what you need. No matter what, the card's amazing simply because its cost effectiveness will force down prices across the board.

[Thenryb]

Those of us without PCI express slots are less excited:( I got my motherboard shortly after WOW went retail. It is an Asus P4G800-E Deluxe. I thought it was really up to date too. If you have to replace the motherboard to use such a card, it is hard to consider it cheap.

[the Langolier]

Funny you should post this, I was just spec'ing out a new computer I want to build (my first time) and I thought I was reading things incorrectly when I compared it to the current 8800 GTS. This is the card I am going with. I'm also getting SLI compatible components so I can double the baby up cheaply in the future if I want some extra power.

[Hijack]

So far I have picked out:

GPU: EVGA GeForce 8800 GT SSC 512 MB (pre-over clocked for an extra 30 bucks).

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6750. Rated at 2.66 GHz with a 1333 MHz FSB, 4 MB shared L2 cache. This puppy is a steal at $200 plus all reviews rave about how well this overclocks - easily up to 3.0 GHz with stock cooling. Most people are pushing this to at least 3.4 GHz with more advanced cooling.

Motherboard: Undecided, but I will probably go with another piece from EVGA with an nVidia SLI ready chipset. Going for SATA drive capability, Dual PCIe x16 slots. EVGA boards also have a pretty decent 8 channel on-board sound chipset. I'm not a big audiophile so I probably wont even connect a surround system, but at least it is there when I want it. What does a rated FSB speed for a mother indicate? As far as I can tell, FSB is important between the CPU and RAM. Also I have read a lot about people overclocking beyond 1333 MHz, which is the "fastest" motherboard I have seen, so clearly this isn't a limiting FSB rating.

RAM: Undecided. This part I am most confused about. What the hell does "SLI ready" RAM mean, or is that just a marketing gimmick? I plan on overclocking the processor to 3 GHz from the get go. I've been trying to get my head around this overclocking business, and have learned that the multiplier for this processor is 2666 Mhz / 1333 GHz = 2. For some reason you gotta throw in another factor of 4 for modern processors. So, the actual FSB for this processor is 2666/8 = 332.5 MHz. To overclock it to 3.0 GHz, you set the FSB speed in the BIOS to 375 MHz (365 MHz * 8). No problems. What ram speed does this equate to in order to match the CPU? Most of what I found so far says you should have a 1:1 ratio between CPU and ram speed. A little help here would be good.

Hard Drive: Western Digital Raptor X 150 BG, 10,000 RPM, 16 MB cache (OEM). Two partitions, one for windows and the other for programs. I'll keep my data on this drive for awhile until I get a bigger, slower drive to dump it on. There is also a 74 GB model that I might use instead to save some money, but it hasn't gotten good reviews.

Case: Antec 900. Some 600 W powersupply. My first build, I didn't want to mess with a radiator. This thing has 120 mm fan slots coming out the ass, plus one 200 mm fan on the top. I am going to do a little bit of overclocking on stock cooling, so I think this should help until I upgrade on CPU cooling in the future. The blue LEDs are just a bonus so everyone can see how 1337 I am and how much of a gosu gamer I am, FTW!

Budget: ~$1,200. I estimated about 200 bucks per the 6 main components (CPU, MB, RAM, GPU, Case/PSU, Drives). I also need a monitor, though. I feel comfortable being able to keep the whole outfit under $1,500, which I am pleased about. I have never had a rig as beefy as this is looking to be, and I plan having it for a long time. I'm by no means a hardcore gamer, so most of the specs are meant to get me current then carry me for 5 years. I am happy to see that anything spec'd out similarly through dell or whoever comes to ~$2,500 or more (although alienware just looks beautiful).

Throw in a DVD drive and I'll be ready to get off the ground. Some extra goodies like a second hard drive, optical drive, media card reader, etc. can come later.

[/Hijack]

[Quark]

GPU: EVGA GeForce 8800 GT SSC 512 MB (pre-over clocked for an extra 30 bucks).

Always been a fan of eVGA, but you might wanna wait until the next set of cards is released before pulling the trigger, just in case. I'd say a month and a half at most before the new nVidia shows itself.

RAM: Undecided. This part I am most confused about. What the hell does "SLI ready" RAM mean, or is that just a marketing gimmick?

Gimmick! The spec on the MB says it supports 533/667/800/1200MHz memory. 1200MHz isn't an official spec for DDR2 that I'm seeing, 800MHz is the fastest I can find. So you want DDR2 800 memory for the official speed, and go for a higher rating to have a better chance of success at overclocking. To take full advantage of the speed (dual channel), you need to have 2 physical sticks of memory. I'd recommend 2x1GB at the minimum, and 2x2GB if possible at this point. Prices on DDR2 are dropping like a rock. My preferred brands are Corsair and Mushkin.

For the overclocking bit, more today you end up overclocking your entire system rather than just the CPU. Bump the FSB up and you bump the CPU and memory with it. Which one is your limit, you'll never know until you experiment.

Case: Antec 900. Some 600 W powersupply. My first build, I didn't want to mess with a radiator. This thing has 120 mm fan slots coming out the ass, plus one 200 mm fan on the top. I am going to do a little bit of overclocking on stock cooling, so I think this should help until I upgrade on CPU cooling in the future. The blue LEDs are just a bonus so everyone can see how 1337 I am and how much of a gosu gamer I am, FTW!

Warning bells just went off in my head. "Some 600 W powersupply" does not sound good. Seriously, more than any other component anymore, including CPU, your power supply needs to be good. Don't take it for granted. I'm not saying you need a 1kW beast, just pay extra attention to your model, how many amps your 12v rails can output (and leave room for SLI here), and the overall efficiency. Don't skimp on reading the reviews, dig deep to make sure your power supply is good now and will also be good later. A very good 550W will outlast an 800W.

Oh, and as a note, I don't bother overclocking anymore. Too much time spent getting it "just right" for too little gain.

[the Langolier]

I'd recommend 2x1GB at the minimum, and 2x2GB if possible at this point. Prices on DDR2 are dropping like a rock. My preferred brands are Corsair and Mushkin.

Yes, I forgot to mention I'll be going with 2x1GB. There's also this "low latency" business that has 4-4-4 timing as opposed to 5-5-5, but that doesn't seem like it is really important.

For the overclocking bit, more today you end up overclocking your entire system rather than just the CPU. Bump the FSB up and you bump the CPU and memory with it. Which one is your limit, you'll never know until you experiment.
Warning bells just went off in my head. "Some 600 W powersupply" does not sound good.

Heh, thanks for the tip. I have read that it needs to be qualty; mostly I meant that I haven't even gotten around to shopping a PSU yet except for knowing I will need at least 500 W.

[DeeBye]

It gets better. The $250 is a high estimate from Nvidia. They expect the card to reach $200 for the 512MB version shortly, with the 256MB version being even cheaper (though I'd stick with the 512MB).

Do you have a source for this?

[Wyrm]

Yeah, the GT kinda puts all other cards on the market to shame right now, either because of the performance, the price, or the power comsumption. In any case, I've had my GTS 320 for a little over half a year now and I don't think I'll be upgrading any time soon.

There's also this "low latency" business that has 4-4-4 timing as opposed to 5-5-5, but that doesn't seem like it is really important.

If you're into gaming, it is. THG and Anandtech have both noticed some pretty distinct differences between cas4 and cas5 memory.

Heh, thanks for the tip. I have read that it needs to be qualty; mostly I meant that I haven't even gotten around to shopping a PSU yet except for knowing I will need at least 500 W.

If you're looking for a good PSU, then this is a pretty good place to go for recommendations.

EVGA GeForce 8800 GT SSC 512 MB (pre-over clocked for an extra 30 bucks)

You do realize that you won't get anything from a factory overclocked card that you can't get by doing the overclocking yourself. Unless it comes with a custom cooler, anyways. In any case, if you're not afraid of overclocking the card yourself, you might as well get a non-oc card and save yourself some money.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750.

Imo, you should wait on that one. Quad core chips are dropping rapidly (there's one for ~266 right now) and all other chips will be going down soon as well since Penryn's launch is imminent.

[Quark]

Imo, you should wait on that one. Quad core chips are dropping rapidly (there's one for ~266 right now) and all other chips will be going down soon as well since Penryn's launch is imminent.

Going dual -> quad is a different beast from single -> dual, though. With dual, there's instant benefit. Any time you're using multiple programs (WinAmp in the background), you get to use your extra core. For a single program to take advantage of multiple cores it's gotta be coded in properly. Modern games are pretty good at passing off work to two cores. They're not so good about four cores, yet.

Of course, if you're doing any kind of graphical/audio processing, those programs use the extra cores pretty well already.

[TheDragoon]

Gimmick! The spec on the MB says it supports 533/667/800/1200MHz memory. 1200MHz isn't an official spec for DDR2 that I'm seeing, 800MHz is the fastest I can find. So you want DDR2 800 memory for the official speed, and go for a higher rating to have a better chance of success at overclocking. To take full advantage of the speed (dual channel), you need to have 2 physical sticks of memory. I'd recommend 2x1GB at the minimum, and 2x2GB if possible at this point. Prices on DDR2 are dropping like a rock. My preferred brands are Corsair and Mushkin.

I actually have some DDR2 that is spec'd for 1066MHz (and can supposedly go faster via overclock). I saw some 1200MHz sticks available, as well, but it was outrageously expensive so I didn't go for it.

As for brands, I use some Ballistix RAM. It is awesome. :)


I would also echo Quark's point that you should invest in a good-ish power supply. I opted for a good Thermaltake supply for my girlfriend's computer (it's nice and quiet) and I use a PC Power and Cooling supply for my computer. Both get rave reviews on a number of websites (like Tom's Hardware or Newegg) and I have had no problems so far.

[Wyrm]

Do you have a source for this?

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9474

[Quark]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9474

Wrong source, that's re: the new chip coming. As for the prices:

Anandtech:

For this launch, we have been given a $50 price range for 8800 GT. NVIDIA told us that there will be no $200 8800 GT parts available at launch, but they should come along after prices settle down a bit. Initially, we thought that the 256MB parts would be $200 and the 512MB parts $250. It turns out that we were mistaken.

Not only that, but we can expect the stock clocked 512MB 8800 GT to hit $200 at the low end. The 256MB part, which won't show up until the end of November, will hit prices below $200. Upon hearing Ujesh Desai, NVIDIA's General Manager of Desktop GPUs, explain this incredible projection, my internal monologue was somehow rerouted to my mouth and I happened to exclaim (with all too much enthusiasm) "you're crazy!" As an aside, we at AnandTech try very hard to maintain a high level of professionalism in all our dealings with industry players. Such a response is quite out of character for any of our editors. Regardless, I continued on to say that it seems NVIDIA has started taking notes from local commercials we all see about the deep discount auto dealers who are slashing prices on everything. Apparently I was the second person that day to react that way to the information.

[Wyrm]

Wrong source, that's re: the new chip coming.

Haha, whoops. For some strange reason I got mixed up there.

On a side note: evga is using Quake Wars as their bonus/bundle game now. I think it's a safe bet that a few companies will be using Crysis once that comes out, though.

On a further side note: It seems as though the 65nm process is great for overclocking. Core2 chips, the unlocked X2 5000 Black, and now the 8800GT. Evga has a factory overclocked option for 700MHz, 100 above stock, and still using what looks like the stock cooler. Can only wonder how high you'll be able to take it with a decent water cooling option (or even by sticking the dual slot 8800 cooler on it).

[Concillian]

Oh, and as a note, I don't bother overclocking anymore. Too much time spent getting it "just right" for too little gain.

Yeah, I used to overclock a lot. I don't now.

Used to be that overclocking got really significant gains. Now very few games are CPU dependent really at all. The video card is the only thing worth overclocking and many brands offer a mid-level overclock from the factory will full warranties.

Some CPUs are still very safe to OC, the low end C2Ds you essentially buy because you will overclock. These are also relatively safe overclocks, but for the most part un-necessary with games generally able to reasonably push to 60+ FPS without CPU overclocks.

Gain is one thing. Gain you can actually notice is quite another. I always roll my eyes when I see some noob on a forum all excited about how his CPU overclock made his game benchmarks go from 100 FPS to 120 FPS in whatever game he's talking about. How many people will even notice that difference? How many with a modern system even play at a res where their CPU is even limiting performance at all? Games, for the most part, don't demand much more from the CPU at high res than at low res. So the games must be programmed around the lowest common denominator CPU. Most any middle-low CPU provides adequate gaming performance to match up with a high end card that it doesn't make sense to spend more than about $150 on a CPU now.

[Concillian]

I read somewhere on one of the 8 different sites that had reviews of this thing up that the Nvidia rep was calling this the modern age Geforce Ti4200.

I am expecting to see 256 MB 8800GTs in the $150-180 range, probably after Christmas, which likely would make that statement true. It's been a long time since a sub-$200 card has completely invalidated previous gen cards at double the cost, but it looks like that's what the 256 MB 8800GT is set to do. Just as the Ti4200 did so many years ago.

Time will tell, but the card introduction is definitely a good sign for savvy consumers. It can only get better if whatever ATi has lined up is even semi-competitive (unlike the x2900 series).

[LavCat]

I actually have some DDR2 that is spec'd for 1066MHz (and can supposedly go faster via overclock). I saw some 1200MHz sticks available, as well, but it was outrageously expensive so I didn't go for it.

As for brands, I use some Ballistix RAM. It is awesome. :)
I would also echo Quark's point that you should invest in a good-ish power supply. I opted for a good Thermaltake supply for my girlfriend's computer (it's nice and quiet) and I use a PC Power and Cooling supply for my computer. Both get rave reviews on a number of websites (like Tom's Hardware or Newegg) and I have had no problems so far.

I have used Ballistix RAM for years and PC P&C supplies for decades. I had one bad supply from PC P&C. It was a custom version and the crimping on one of the motherboard connectors was such that the pins made intermittent contact. I still recommend their supplies, however.

My most recent Ballistix purchase was just a couple weeks ago, and once again my computer is not crashing every fifteen minutes while playing WoW. My complaint with the Ballistix is that it does not last very long. I have had the same problem with many sticks in multiple motherboards and systems. Fortunately Micron has always been willing to replace bad parts, but doing so is a pain and it is that time again. As long as Ballistix works it works very well indeed.