Patch 2.4 tidbits

[Swiss Mercenary]

The mage changes look good... While I can only roll my eyes at the elemental and enhance shamans (41 point 3 minute CD talent... That is dispellable by an Arcane Shot :rolleyes:)

[Lissa]

This is the problem with discussing AV balance.

Everyone seems to have this idea that the other side is doing better than them.

At least in my battlegroup, most of these ideas are impractical, not only because you can't convince people to do anything in particular, but because half the time, the other side is playing their game better than you're playing yours. You can't win attrition when you're losing more people than they are.

-Jester

Trust me, once the Horde on your battlegroup figure out what the Alliance people here are telling you, you will win 100% of the AV matches, it really is that simple for the horde now with the new model. The IB choke makes it very easy for the Horde to win through attrition now.

[Lissa]

Some new tidbits dropped yesterday that are apparently from a leaked email or something. As such, take them with a large chunk of rock salt:

Priest
<blockquote>Mana Burn effect reduced roughly 50%.
Mana Burn cast time reduced by 1 second.
Improved Mana Burn: Now increases the amount of mana burned from your Mana Burn spell by 10/20%.
Focused Will now reduces damage by 2/3/4% down from 1/3/5%
Lightwell: Charges increased to 15, up from 5.</blockquote>

Wonder how this change to Mana Burn will effect things. This may really kill priests in PvP when dealing with mana wars if the amount of mana burned is significantly reduced.

Warlock
<blockquote>Life Tap: Spell coefficient reduced by $
Life Tap now consumes toughly 10% more health when used.
Demonic Knowledge now increases your spell damage by an amount equal to 4/7/10% down from 5/10/15%
Improved Shadowbolt: Now only works for the Warlock.
Improved Shadowbolt: Now increases Shadow damage by 3/6/9/12/15%, down from 4/8/10/14/20%
Incinerate spell coefficient increased by $</blockquote>

Looks like Blizzard is trying to break the Warlock to Shadow Priest synergy (but no vice versa) with the change to ISB. It also appears that Blizzard is trying to make Immolate-Incinerate viable, but I'm not sure they can do it because even with the change to ISB, unless the coefficient change to Incinerate is 15% higher (around the same as Shadow Bolt), Shadow Bolt will still be preferential.

Potential Shadow Bolt damage increases go like:

{SB base damage range + [Shadow Damage * (0.857 (3/3.5) + 0.2 (5/5 SnF)]} * 1.1 (Curse of Shadows) * 1.15 (Sac'd Ho) * 1.15 (Shadow Weaving from SP) * 1.15 (possible ISB being up)

or

[SB base damage range + (1.057 * Shadow Damage)] * 1.455 (1.673 with ISB, 2.91 with Crit-Ruin and no ISB, 3.346 with ISB and Crit-Ruin)

Potential Incinerate damage increases go like:

{Incinerate base damage range + (111 - 128 for immolate being up) + [Fire Damage * (coeffient, presently .714 + 0.2 (5/5 SnF)]} * 1.1 (Curse of the Elements) * 1.1 (Emberstorm 5/5) * 1.15 (Sac'd Imp) * 1.15 (Imp Scorch)

or

[Incinerate base damage range + (111-128) + (Fire damage * .914 presently)] * 1.6 (3.2 with Crit-Ruin)

Just a note as well, having immolate up brings Incinerate up to the same range as Shadow Bolt for damage range. Shadow Bolt 11 is 541 to 603 and Incinerate 2 (figuring in Immolate being on target) is 555 to 642. Average damage on each is then 572 for Shadow Bolt and 598.5. If we assume 1000 damage for each of calculations, the coefficient change to make Immolate equal to Shadow assuming 100% uptime of ISB would be: 0.905, up from 0.714, so around a 26% to 27% increase in the coefficent of Incinerate. So, unless Blizzard makes this drastic a change to Incinerate's coefficient, I don't see Raiding Warlocks switching away from Shadow Bolt to Incinerate. What I do see however, is Warlocks going with Incinerate if, and only if, there are mages rolling scorch in the raid and no shadow priests.

[Jester]

Trust me, once the Horde on your battlegroup figure out what the Alliance people here are telling you, you will win 100% of the AV matches, it really is that simple for the horde now with the new model. The IB choke makes it very easy for the Horde to win through attrition now.

I'm not convinced it's ever going to be that easy.

I may eat my words, I don't know. But ever since the beginning, the things I've been reading from the alliance folk on the lounge have been contrary to my experiences.

-Jester

[Skandranon]

I'm not convinced it's ever going to be that easy.

I may eat my words, I don't know. But ever since the beginning, the things I've been reading from the alliance folk on the lounge have been contrary to my experiences.

I had the same experience when reading Bloodlust battlegroup's reports of 600-0 Horde steamrolls. It wasn't happening at all on Ruin so I didn't know what they were talking about. You'll see when it happens; your battlegroup will eventually turn over and enough people will understand what to do, and you'll never lose again.

I have faith in its inevitability because Horde need ten or fifteen people in each game to understand what to do and how to do it, and the Alliance counter requires thirty to thirty-five people to understand what to do and how to do it. Presuming that everyone is equally incompetent, that makes the task of making the Alliance execute correctly exponentially more difficult.

[Artega]

RIP Elemental Shamans. I'm going to assume these are fake. If they aren't, I might just keep playing Sword of the New World and hang up my WoW account for good.

[Taelas]

Even if they are not fake, they are supposed to be abilities that are meant to be tested internally. Blizzard tests stuff internally all the time -- could be one of those lists leaked; it's happened before.

Everything about it screams "fake!" to me, though. The changes are far too massive.

[Jester]

Some new tidbits dropped yesterday that are apparently from a leaked email or something. As such, take them with a large chunk of rock salt:

Druid
<blockquote>Cyclone range reduced to 20 yards, down from 30.
Lifebloom healing coefficient reduced by $
Natural Perfection now reduces damage by 2/3/4% down from 1/3/5%
Tree of Life: You may now cast any Restoration spell in this form.
Improved Tranquility: Now also reduces the mana cost of Tranquility by 10/20%.
Moonkin Form no longer gains 150% attack power or mana returned from melee hits, but now refunds 2% of your total mana every time you critically hit with a spell.
Force of Nature: Treants now have a 15% chance to proc Entangling Roots on the target.
Nurturing Instinct: Increases your healing spells by up to 50/100% of your Agility, and increases healing done to you by 25/50% of your Attack Power.</blockquote>
Hunter
<blockquote>Improved Mend Pet now has a 50/100% chance to remove one Curse, Disease, Magic or Poison effect, up from 15/30%.</blockquote>
Mage
<blockquote>Blink mana cost reduced roughly 40%
Improved Blink now increases the distance you Blink by 15/30%, and you have a 15/30% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Fireball, Frostbolt, or Arcane Blast spell by 50% after you Blink. (Might just do one of these effects…)
Prismatic Cloak now reduces damage taken by 3/6%, up from 2/4%
Mana Cost of Slow reduced roughly 40%
Arcane Fortitude now increases your armor by an amount equal to 100% of your Intellect, up from 50%.
Mana Shield now scales with spell damage. (Max rank with full S3/best gear will absorb around 1Kish, added damage absorb doesn't cost/consume mana to the shield, it will always cost what the tooltip says)
Improved Fire Ward is now Molten Shield
New Talent: Molten Shield – Reduces all damage taken by 2/4% while using Molten Armor, and causes your Fire Ward to have a 25/50% chance to reflect Fire spells while active.
Frost Warding: Chance to reflect Frost spells while Frost ward is active by 25/50%, up from 10/20%.
Icy Veins no longer increases the chance your chilling effects Freeze the target, but now reduces pushback by 100% for 20 sec.
Icy Veins spell haste bonus no longer stacks with Bloodlust.
Ice Flows now gives you a 15/30% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting any Frost spell.</blockquote>
Priest
<blockquote>Mana Burn effect reduced roughly 50%.
Mana Burn cast time reduced by 1 second.
Improved Mana Burn: Now increases the amount of mana burned from your Mana Burn spell by 10/20%.
Focused Will now reduces damage by 2/3/4% down from 1/3/5%
Lightwell: Charges increased to 15, up from 5.</blockquote>
Paladin
<blockquote>Turn Undead no longer fears the target, and now incapacitates it.
Turn Undead now works on demons. (Prob will be renamed to a diff spell)
Turn Undead is now subject to diminishing returns.
Turn Undead now lasts 10 sec. in PvP.</blockquote>
Rogue
<blockquote>Envenom no longer consumes the Poison applications.</blockquote>
Shaman
<blockquote>Lightning Bolt: Spell coefficient reduced by $
Lightning Overload can no longer proc on instant cast spells. (aka NS+CL won't proc it)
Lightning Overload can no longer critically hit.
Tremor Totem and Poison Cleansing Totem now pulse every 3 seconds, down from 5.
Earth Shield mana cost reduced by 50%
Earth Shield now has 6 charges, down from 10.
Healing Grace: Now also reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%</blockquote>
Warlock
<blockquote>Life Tap: Spell coefficient reduced by $
Life Tap now consumes toughly 10% more health when used.
Demonic Knowledge now increases your spell damage by an amount equal to 4/7/10% down from 5/10/15%
Improved Shadowbolt: Now only works for the Warlock.
Improved Shadowbolt: Now increases Shadow damage by 3/6/9/12/15%, down from 4/8/10/14/20%
Incinerate spell coefficient increased by $</blockquote>
Warrior
<blockquote>Endless Rage now properly generates 25% more rage from damage dealt (previously only 12% cause of a bug)
Improved Hamstring: Now has a 10 second cooldown. </blockquote>
Items
<blockquote>Mystical Skyfire Diamond now reduces the next spell cast by 20%, down from 50%. (It also might just be changed to straight stats, still in debate. Don't be surprised if this metagem just gets added stats with the current effect in the initial 2.4 notes, it's still being worked on.)
Shaman Gladiator 4-set bonus now reduces pushback by 30%, down from 70%</blockquote>

I'm confident blizzard would be able to spell "floes".

I'm going to call fake.

And since when does Turn Undead work in PvP?

-Jester

[Klaus]

And since when does Turn Undead work in PvP?

-Jester

I had to think about that for a minute, too. It doesn't right now, but if they make it work on demons, then it could be used on warlock pets. So, they would reduce the effective time in PVP to match the others.

I still think they're fake.

[Taelas]

I'm confident blizzard would be able to spell "floes".

I'm going to call fake.

And since when does Turn Undead work in PvP?

While I fully agree that they're fake, you can't call it on the spelling -- it's supposedly an internal leak on possible changes; stands to reason they wouldn't be hard on spelling.

As for the Turn Undead thing, it's supposed to affect demons as well and there are demons in PvP.

[Artega]

Even if they are not fake, they are supposed to be abilities that are meant to be tested internally. Blizzard tests stuff internally all the time -- could be one of those lists leaked; it's happened before.

Everything about it screams "fake!" to me, though. The changes are far too massive.

Why would they nerf Elemental's only reliable form of DPS even more than they already have? Reducing the base cast time was a nerf to Elemental, but a small buff to Restoration, making casting Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning a little more practical for them. It doesn't really affect Enhancement since Enhancement's not going to stand there and pewpew.

If they decided to make it so that LO procs can't crit, then they'd damn well better increase the proc rate in compensation.

[Taelas]

Like I said, Blizzard tests stuff internally all the time (even outrageous stuff). Even if this is one of those leaked notes, I'm reasonably sure 95% won't make it to a PTR.

It's just testing. Most of it doesn't get implemented. Take a look here for a list of Paladin changes that showed up in a test build (not a PTR) pre-2.2.

[Lissa]

Some new tidbits dropped yesterday that are apparently from a leaked email or something. As such, take them with a large chunk of rock salt:

Druid
<blockquote>
Lifebloom healing coefficient reduced by $
</blockquote>

Mage
<blockquote>Blink mana cost reduced roughly 40%
Prismatic Cloak now reduces damage taken by 3/6%, up from 2/4%
Mana Cost of Slow reduced roughly 40%
Arcane Fortitude now increases your armor by an amount equal to 100% of your Intellect, up from 50%.
Mana Shield now scales with spell damage. (Max rank with full S3/best gear will absorb around 1Kish, added damage absorb doesn't cost/consume mana to the shield, it will always cost what the tooltip says)
Improved Fire Ward is now Molten Shield
New Talent: Molten Shield – Reduces all damage taken by 2/4% while using Molten Armor, and causes your Fire Ward to have a 25/50% chance to reflect Fire spells while active.
Icy Veins spell haste bonus no longer stacks with Bloodlust.
</blockquote>


Priest
<blockquote>
Focused Will now reduces damage by 2/3/4% down from 1/3/5%
</blockquote>

Paladin
<blockquote>Turn Undead now works on demons. (Prob will be renamed to a diff spell)
Turn Undead is now subject to diminishing returns.
Turn Undead now lasts 10 sec. in PvP.</blockquote>

Shaman
<blockquote>
Tremor Totem and Poison Cleansing Totem now pulse every 3 seconds, down from 5.
</blockquote>

Looks like there was some truth to the leak after all, the above have been confirmed:

List of Changes on MMO-Champion front page

It will be interesting to see if more of the leak info does come to light in 2.4.

[Bolty]

The change to mana burns being affected by resilience is a hefty nerf to Priests in arenas, sadly. Priests' heals are the most expensive of all the healing classes, and Mana Burn is the equalizer when fighting other healers. A resilience-capped player will reduce the effects of Mana Burn from ~1,000 mana lost per hit to ~750 mana lost per hit. When you consider that Rank 7 Mana Burn costs a Priest 355 mana, spending that much mana and spending 2 seconds to burn off 750 mana from an enemy may just not be worth it anymore, except against Hunters.

Still drives me nuts that Paladins can keep healing with like 100 mana. :)

-Bolty

[Tal]

The change to mana burns being affected by resilience is a hefty nerf to Priests in arenas, sadly. Priests' heals are the most expensive of all the healing classes, and Mana Burn is the equalizer when fighting other healers. A resilience-capped player will reduce the effects of Mana Burn from ~1,000 mana lost per hit to ~750 mana lost per hit. When you consider that Rank 7 Mana Burn costs a Priest 355 mana, spending that much mana and spending 2 seconds to burn off 750 mana from an enemy may just not be worth it anymore, except against Hunters.

Still drives me nuts that Paladins can keep healing with like 100 mana. :)

-Bolty

I won't argue that this is aimed at Paladins and Shamans in Arenas and I can say that I'm pretty happy about it. As a paladin healer in pvp my only instant heal is holy shock forcing me often to stand still to heal my teammates. I don't have the luxury of HoTs to help even it out while I try to LoS an enemy priest/warlock in order to protect my mana pool. This also feels like a grass is greener situation.;)