Nether Vortices 15 badges on PTR

[Concillian]

Unknown if this will go live, but Nether Vortices on PTR are 15 badges + ~7gold each and are non-binding.

More easy gear up if you know people with belt patterns.

[Taelas]

Primal Nethers are not BoP either.

[Mavfin]

Primal Nethers are not BoP either.

Very good on both. I took the time to build my tank to 375 armorsmith, and now I won't have to make a 1000 gold deal with a raid guild so I can have a couple vortexes for the last upgrade to my BP. I like that.

(Yes, I know, you can tell me I wasted my time doing armorsmith, or whatever, but, I did it because I wanted to, not for some efficiency/money/min-max goal. Some of us do stuff in game for reasons other than that it's 'best')

[Swiss Mercenary]

Very good on both. I took the time to build my tank to 375 armorsmith, and now I won't have to make a 1000 gold deal with a raid guild so I can have a couple vortexes for the last upgrade to my BP. I like that.

(Yes, I know, you can tell me I wasted my time doing armorsmith, or whatever, but, I did it because I wanted to, not for some efficiency/money/min-max goal. Some of us do stuff in game for reasons other than that it's 'best')

I agree with them being purchaseable by badge loot. I don't agree with nethers becoming BoE.

I guess the crafters who sunk thousands of gold into their professions/rep grinds will now have to do with earning 8g tips off exhalted recipes. :rolleyes:

Oh, and not to mention, compete with everyone else at the end of a heroic for the nether.

This change does not help with the availability of loot. Prior to it, anyone could farm up the 50g/nether. All it does is take the rewards away from the crafters.

[Bob the Beholder]

I agree with them being purchaseable by badge loot. I don't agree with nethers becoming BoE.

I guess the crafters who sunk thousands of gold into their professions/rep grinds will now have to do with earning 8g tips off exhalted recipes. :rolleyes:

Oh, and not to mention, compete with everyone else at the end of a heroic for the nether.

This change does not help with the availability of loot. Prior to it, anyone could farm up the 50g/nether. All it does is take the rewards away from the crafters.

And take away the burden of the crafter having to farm all of his own nethers.

[Taelas]

I very seriously doubt they see it as a burden -- especially after they became purchaseable.

[Treesh]

All it does is take the rewards away from the crafters.

I think it's a good thing. Now I don't have to spend my own badges to get nethers for folks who need their new golden thread 5 minutes before the raid starts. I was one of the few tailors in the guild who did manage to get patterns that required nethers and there was always a wait list for folks before the badges to nethers change because it was difficult for me to be on at the same time as the rest of the guild to go get the nethers. I'd frequently have 5 people waiting for me to go get a nether. This way, they don't have to. There's less pressure on me to go on every damned heroic run just to get a chance at getting a nether. The fewer BOP mats there are, the happier I am.

[Taelas]

The problem is that people don't pay commission rates, and Primal Nethers made up for that. Now... I don't know.

[VinnieJones]

I think it's a good thing. Now I don't have to spend my own badges to get nethers for folks who need their new golden thread 5 minutes before the raid starts. I was one of the few tailors in the guild who did manage to get patterns that required nethers and there was always a wait list for folks before the badges to nethers change because it was difficult for me to be on at the same time as the rest of the guild to go get the nethers. I'd frequently have 5 people waiting for me to go get a nether. This way, they don't have to. There's less pressure on me to go on every damned heroic run just to get a chance at getting a nether. The fewer BOP mats there are, the happier I am.

Everything in this is present tense, does that mean you are back Treesh?:)

[Tal]

The problem is that people don't pay commission rates, and Primal Nethers made up for that. Now... I don't know.

Here is the thing - you don't have to accept no payment for combining something when you own a rare recipe. On my Tailoress I am able to make Golden Spell Thread. Outside my friends the price is nether + commission rate (usually 5 gold). Most folks are pretty good about paying the commission fee.

[Taelas]

Here is the thing - you don't have to accept no payment for combining something when you own a rare recipe. On my Tailoress I am able to make Golden Spell Thread. Outside my friends the price is nether + commission rate (usually 5 gold). Most folks are pretty good about paying the commission fee.

I wouldn't accept 5g either. Maybe I'm just greedy, but I want my primary crafting profession to actually pay.

[Tal]

I wouldn't accept 5g either. Maybe I'm just greedy, but I want my primary crafting profession to actually pay.

It would be more if it was a rarer recipe. You can get Aldor exalted pretty much by accident.

[Mordekhuul]

Caldin has been selling Nethercleft Armor Kits for something like 500-550 gold...a lot. He's a little sad about the BoE part as well, as going from that to a small commission may not be worth the time (except for guildies, which he already does for free, of course).

Great change for folks that need kits and enchants. Bad for crafters that try to fund their raiding/mounts through their professions.

[Taelas]

It would be more if it was a rarer recipe. You can get Aldor exalted pretty much by accident.

Good point.:lol:

[Treesh]

Everything in this is present tense, does that mean you are back Treesh?:)

No, but since GG has been wanting to play more lately, we'll see what happens on March 2.

Edit: I do know that since I'm tired of them screwing over shaman and I'm seeing more of it with the latest patch notes as well that I'm going to be making Taiza my main instead. She's been more of a hybrid character than Mogo has for a long time now. There have been some improvements to shaman (thank you current water shield), but it doesn't make up for everything else they've broken/made to feel broken by boosting other classes.

[Concillian]

Edit: I do know that since I'm tired of them screwing over shaman and I'm seeing more of it with the latest patch notes as well that I'm going to be making Taiza my main instead. She's been more of a hybrid character than Mogo has for a long time now. There have been some improvements to shaman (thank you current water shield), but it doesn't make up for everything else they've broken/made to feel broken by boosting other classes.

This is what I like least about the new regeneration model.

Basically paladins are pretty good because every heal oriented stat but + healing also adds to inside FSR longevity (MP5, Int, Crit)

With the change to mana regen, Priests and Druids get equal or better due to the spirit / int synergy.

Shaman get nothing from the change unless they are outside FSR due to no stat allowing regen in FSR. In the current patch, I think Shaman compare quite favorably, with water shield + mana trickle + mana tide + natural MP5 they have a comparable amount of regen to a priest. However, if the changes in 2.4 go live, shaman will need some talent somewhere to allow them some amount of regen inside FSR (either int related or % regen related).

The mechanics of chain heal still make Shaman very valuable in raids though. Similar to how you generally assign a pally + second healer to a tank so you have FoH spam for constant incoming HPS, then a cast / cancel healer for handling spikes. CoH can provide the spam HPS, while Chain works on the spikes. Since chain is "smart" it works extremely well. In the two VR kills I've been in on, I really learned how to do this properly with me + Jenjan. We finally figured out the right way to work together so we both last a while and can basically keep up ~1.5 groups fine with just the two of us.

[Mordekhuul]

I'll second Conc's remarks on chain heal.

We wouldn't remotely be where we are in progression without our chain healers and our enhancement shamen. Both are massive boons to 25 man raids. I don't see resto shaman usefulness falling off anytime soon either, considering the massive amounts of ffa damage floating around the raid in a lot of MH/BT fights that people on EJ boards refer to.

[Treesh]

I'll second Conc's remarks on chain heal.

We wouldn't remotely be where we are in progression without our chain healers and our enhancement shamen. Both are massive boons to 25 man raids. I don't see resto shaman usefulness falling off anytime soon either, considering the massive amounts of ffa damage floating around the raid in a lot of MH/BT fights that people on EJ boards refer to.

Yes, chain heal is nice. It's very handy in a lot of situations. There are more keys than just chain heal for a shaman to use. *gasp* I know, radical thinking. We used to be hybrids. Now, because of the inflation of damage and heal numbers, you must specialize. You can choose one tree and that's it if you want to be raid viable (although I did have a bit of fun with an elemental/enhancement spec but there was no way I could even pretend it would be raid viable if I want to do anything but be just a totem dropper). My priest is more of a hybrid than Mogo. She does more damage, has some bit of CC for undead, and can heal just as well. Why bother playing a gimped healer when I can go back to my first love of the hybrid role?

[Kevin]

Shaman get nothing from the change unless they are outside FSR due to no stat allowing regen in FSR. In the current patch, I think Shaman compare quite favorably, with water shield + mana trickle + mana tide + natural MP5 they have a comparable amount of regen to a priest. However, if the changes in 2.4 go live, shaman will need some talent somewhere to allow them some amount of regen inside FSR (either int related or % regen related).

EDIT: My conclusion is wrong because raid buffed she would gain a bit more since I didn't factor in kings, divine spirit, or MotW when I drew the conclusion, it will be a bit more helpful but still in comparison to what druids and priests get it's essentially nothing

From my experience playing Krash in Kara (when he was gear appropriate) and playing Mogo in SSC (where she is gear appropriate) you don't get much regen outside the 5 second rule. Since shaman are so good with FFA healing that is the job they generally do. The one fight where I've played Mogo where it could help is when I was pretty much solo healing the murloc pally tank (well he self heals on that fight as well) because after the murlocs are dead I'll get some regen time.

(0.001+SPI*0.009327*(INT^0.5))*5 = MP5 out of FSR is the formula at L70. Right now with how things work she is at 233 MP/5 while not casting, 126 MP/5 while casting, 471 int, 139 spirit completely unbuffed. So that means that she would have 107 MP/5 from spirit regen.

So that would work out to (0.001 + 139*0.009327*(471^0.5))*5 = 140 MP/5 when not casting from spirit so it would be 37 MP/5 bump outside the five second rule. I figure at best you are looking at 20% time so yeah it's going to be a whooping 7 - 8 MP/5 for her in practical application.

And I do agree that with the water shield changes as well as the changes to mana trickle totem that shaman regen right now seems pretty on par with the other healers at least in the SSC/TK level of content and in Kara content (though I guess appropriate geared Kara doesn't happen with new badge gear).

This change is another relative nerf to resto shaman. Treesh already covered in another post why she isn't happy with the class anymore, basically it's a case of this class doesn't play like it used to and that just ruins it for me. It's happened to folks with other classes, it happened to me with the pally back in 1.07 or whenever they got their big review. The playstyle that I enjoyed the most on my pally at the time was wiped away and while the class may have been made better for it, it wasn't made better for me. None of the warrior, hunter, or druid changes (or relative status changes because of other classes being changed) have really been big enough to make me not happy with the class. I also was alright with the shaman changes because I didn't play it nearly as hybrid as Treesh did and while I have a 70 shaman he was only L30 something when the TBC skill trees hit and I was planning on having him be enh pretty much the whole time so getting DW instead of just being a 2H user, while a pretty big change was a positive one for my play experience. I'm just pointing out that Treesh is mostly unhappy with the changes affecting personal play experience not necessarily class balance and viability.

[Xame]

Unknown if this will go live, but Nether Vortices on PTR are 15 badges + ~7gold each and are non-binding.

More easy gear up if you know people with belt patterns.

The price value point appears about right. 30 badges+primals for a T5 belt or 75 badges for gloves and boots and 100 badges for a chest. Thus for 280 badges + misc mats + some gold I can replace the spellfire set at a better then T5 level. 280 badges still is not a small amount of work and gets people geared up for BT. That way people can say they stepped into BT before the next expansion showed up and killed some trash (but without the skill they won't kill much more).