Official Season 4 Gear Requirements

[Bolty]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...4678222&sid=1#0

While Season 3 is still going strong, we wanted to announce ahead of time the rating requirements that will be present for arena items once Season 4 begins. We also wanted to give everyone a heads up to some changes that will be in an upcoming patch, altering how points are gained and players are matched in the arena system. The patch with these changes is scheduled to release before the start of Season 4.

First though, the rating requirement changes:

When Season 4 begins, Season 3 items will be reduced in personal and team arena rating requirement to:

Shoulders: 1950
Weapon: 1800

The new Season 4 items will have the below personal and team arena rating requirements:

Shoulders: 2200
Weapon: 2050
Head: 1700
Chest: 1600
Legs: 1550
Gloves: none
Off-hand: none

In addition, some of the Season 4 quality items that will be purchasable with honor will also carry a personal and team arena rating requirement:

Boots: 1700
Ring: 1650
Bracers: 1575
Belt: none
Necklace: none
Trinket: none

The Season 2 items, which will move to the honor system when Season 4 begins, will continue to have no rating requirement.

The changes to the rating requirements for these items reflect the nature of the items, their power, and the relative difficulty that should be had when attempting to obtain them. These items are comparable to those found in the newest 25 person raid zone, Sunwell Plateau, and should therefore also feel very challenging to obtain.


To help ensure that the challenge in obtaining these items stays true to those achieving these ratings, we'll also be implementing new rules with an upcoming patch to curb practices that undermine the core concepts of the arena system.

These rules are as follows:

"If a character’s personal rating is more than 150 points below the team rating, they will earn points based on their personal rating instead of the team rating."

This means that a player cannot join a highly rated team and begin earning points based purely on the pre-established rating of the team before they joined it. They'll need to compete, improve, and gain a personal rating worthy of the points they would receive.


"If the average personal rating of the players queuing for a game is more than 150 points below the team’s rating, the team will be queued against an opponent matching or similar to the average personal rating."

This means that players cannot join a highly rated team and immediately face highly rated opponents, easily and quickly bringing their personal rating up. Instead they'll need to again compete, improve, and earn their rating.


We're excited to see these changes implemented, which will continue to emphasize the strong competitive nature of the arenas, and the challenge in obtaining the highest end rewards available for PvP.

This change may kill arenas completely in terms of casual play; getting to 2000 rating in Season 3 is clearly harder than it was in Season 2, and with more players dropping out of the pool due to the ratings requirements, it will be harder yet in Season 4.

Last season, ratings of around 2300 would either get you a Gladiator title or get you very close to it; a requirement of 2200 in Season 4 for the shoulders would limit those items to Gladiators only, in essence. Also, the weapon requirement (the only one that *really* matters, in my opinion) of 2050 will lock out a whole lot more people than the 1850 requirement in place now.

The effect is obvious; more people will just stop playing arenas, leading to a deflation in point values, making it even harder to get the ratings, possibly leading to even more people quitting.

Ought to be interesting. :)

-Bolty

[Mavfin]

Ought to be interesting. :)

-Bolty

Considering that a lot of people, including me, considers 90% of the arena system a cesspool of point-buying e-peen-wanting a-holes, maybe some people need to leave the arena system. From where I'm sitting, the blatant marketing/selling of teams looks pretty disgusting, along with the calls in LFG for 'losing BG teams'.

Now, I know you're not one of those people, Bolty, and I also know there are people who try to win every time, and don't buy points. Maybe the people who are left will be people who want to PvP, not just get their rating for free epics, or just lose their 10 games as quickly as possible for free points.

At least in PvE, you can't just wipe 10 times and get loot, or go into an instance and wipe repeatedly for badges:shuriken:

I realize that true PvP takes skill and dedication, but, there's not a lot of it going on these days. Maybe these rules will help.

[Concillian]

The effect is obvious; more people will just stop playing arenas, leading to a deflation in point values, making it even harder to get the ratings, possibly leading to even more people quitting.

Ought to be interesting. :)

I don't think that's the only effect that will make the ratings more difficult to attain...

"If a character’s personal rating is more than 150 points below the team rating, they will earn points based on their personal rating instead of the team rating."

This means that a player cannot join a highly rated team and begin earning points based purely on the pre-established rating of the team before they joined it. They'll need to compete, improve, and gain a personal rating worthy of the points they would receive.

This is going to cycle an even larger number of inappropriate matchups through the lower ranks, making then 1500-1700 range even more impacted than it is and even more difficult to surpass than it is.

[Xame]

I don't think that's the only effect that will make the ratings more difficult to attain...
This is going to cycle an even larger number of inappropriate matchups through the lower ranks, making then 1500-1700 range even more impacted than it is and even more difficult to surpass than it is.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends how blizzard spreads the points after the matchup. If there goal was to punish a high rated team that cycled in a bunch of noobs because they were "paid" this would be pretty good. Image you faced a 2500 "rated" team at 1500 because they cycled in players that rated at 1500. Thus the match is 2500 verse 1500. If the 1500 team wins, you will score 40-100 points and the 2500 team would lose that many. Great for the low end team and horrible for the high end team (losing 100pts in a single match for a high end team would require just crazy amounts of gold or real world money). If you lose to the 2500 team at the 1500 bracket, well you give them 1 point. From a "pot odds" (using a poker term), I like it. It almost completely eliminates team selling/points farming since the team rating will be worth about 3-4 games to under rated players.

What will most likely happen for the sellers is that they will sell the 5th slot on a 5v5 team to get some of the lower rated S4 gear in the hands of those who don't deserve them. But this is a far cry from what is currently happening.

Arenas will always be what they are. High end teams will strive to be the best and the competition at the highest levels will always be very good. It will hopefully stop the stupid selling of teams when people feel that they are not going to make a "title" and would rather exchange that for cash. Low end players (PvE) will farm points for pretty decent gear with a low level of time commitment given the WONDERFUL speedup of the queues (S4 pt free/S3 gear is still very good and the S2 weapons are still decent while waiting for your BT weapons). 6-7/hr played per epic at a crappy rating is still a pretty decent rate.

[NotSoDarklord]

Image you faced a 2500 "rated" team at 1500 because they cycled in players that rated at 1500. Thus the match is 2500 verse 1500. If the 1500 team wins, you will score 40-100 points and the 2500 team would lose that many. Great for the low end team and horrible for the high end team (losing 100pts in a single match for a high end team would require just crazy amounts of gold or real world money). If you lose to the 2500 team at the 1500 bracket, well you give them 1 point.

Unfortunately (or fortunately if you enjoy queueing from high ratings late at night) the amount of points you can win from a team is capped at 32. At the other end of the spectrum you can have 0 point losses if the difference is great enough.

[Bolty]

It will hopefully stop the stupid selling of teams when people feel that they are not going to make a "title" and would rather exchange that for cash.

Just a nitpick - teams that sell points do so in two methods:

1) They swap in a player for 3 games a week, take 3 losses, and then spend the other 7 games making up the rating they lost.

2) They build up a team in an afternoon and then sell it wholesale.

Currently, team ratings just don't mean much. There are plenty of players who build teams and sell them for cash, or sell spots. The only ratings that *really* count are the ones at the end of the season; namely, the last two or three weeks. That is when the point selling stops and serious teams are formed to make runs at a title. And of course, all the shenanigans start with win trading and other dirty techniques. :)

Serious arena players got their full set of S3 gear a long time ago, plus additional gear for offspec use. There's nothing for them to do BUT sell points or else just screw around until the final stretch approaches. The seasons are too long, and that's a problem that leads to these other problems.

-Bolty

[oldmandennis]

Serious arena players got their full set of S3 gear a long time ago, plus additional gear for offspec use. There's nothing for them to do BUT sell points or else just screw around until the final stretch approaches. The seasons are too long, and that's a problem that leads to these other problems.

Yeah, the seasons outlasting the rewards is a big part of the problem. I play 5's around 1750, and I've got 4/5, a ton of points in the bank, and I even bought a S2 1h weapon for the rare (at this level) times I'm focused.

There needs to be a reward for week in, week out having a very high personal rating. That will give most of the point sellers something better to do then ruin the lower brackets.

My choice would be a season "+.5" set - so currently available would be 3.5. Splitting the difference between s3 and s4 would be about 15sta, 10int, and 20heals on the priest set, for example. That's not going to break the game. These items would be available for an absurd price, maybe 10x the current season. That way even the very best teams would be unable to get more then a couple of items.

The only problem would be people selling off brackets....

[Jester]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...4678222&sid=1#0
This change may kill arenas completely in terms of casual play; getting to 2000 rating in Season 3 is clearly harder than it was in Season 2, and with more players dropping out of the pool due to the ratings requirements, it will be harder yet in Season 4.

Last season, ratings of around 2300 would either get you a Gladiator title or get you very close to it; a requirement of 2200 in Season 4 for the shoulders would limit those items to Gladiators only, in essence. Also, the weapon requirement (the only one that *really* matters, in my opinion) of 2050 will lock out a whole lot more people than the 1850 requirement in place now.

The effect is obvious; more people will just stop playing arenas, leading to a deflation in point values, making it even harder to get the ratings, possibly leading to even more people quitting.

Ought to be interesting. :)

-Bolty

Won't stop me from playing, and I've never been even close to 1850, let alone 2000 or (heavens) 2200. Is it really a dealbreaker for casual arena players that they won't be able to get each and every arena piece in the season it comes out? After all, they are casual, they're not trying to be the ultimate.

-Jester

[Mirajj]

Won't stop me from playing, and I've never been even close to 1850, let alone 2000 or (heavens) 2200. Is it really a dealbreaker for casual arena players that they won't be able to get each and every arena piece in the season it comes out? After all, they are casual, they're not trying to be the ultimate.

-Jester

People place a lot in the illusion that they may be able to obtain something. Especially something like arena armor, which previously was 100% attainable as long as you put in the time each week to pick up your arena points. The ratings of Season 3 put some fractures in this illusion, and the proposed ratings of S4 have shattered it.

Since, in my experience, no matter what the majority of the people actually say, gear matters and is important to them. That carrot has to be dangled. I "could" get T6 gear, if I could just get a raiding group together. I 'could' get arena gear, if I just played 10 games a week.

With Arena, imo, it's even easier than that. The major draw is the gear and only the gear. At least with PvE, you can claim to be interested in the content, story and lore of a place in addition to the gear. With PvP...what's the point, if not to get better gear to stomp people more quickly? Look at how all the sudden interest "took off" in PvP, with the addition of easy to acquire gear, for instance. Pretty much since it's inception, arena was seen as the easiest path to great gear. Now Blizz is changing that. This move will, imo, have huge ramifications in the PvP circuit.

[TheDragoon]

With Arena, imo, it's even easier than that. The major draw is the gear and only the gear. At least with PvE, you can claim to be interested in the content, story and lore of a place in addition to the gear. With PvP...what's the point, if not to get better gear to stomp people more quickly? Look at how all the sudden interest "took off" in PvP, with the addition of easy to acquire gear, for instance. Pretty much since it's inception, arena was seen as the easiest path to great gear. Now Blizz is changing that. This move will, imo, have huge ramifications in the PvP circuit.

Not necessarily. A lot of people like the challenge of PvP and they do it for the fun of it. That's not really any different than the people who raid specifically to see content. But there is probably an equal amount of people in both groups who are interested in advancing their character and PvP or raiding are basically the only way to do that if you've already maxed out on solo and 5-man content. :)

[Jester]

People place a lot in the illusion that they may be able to obtain something. Especially something like arena armor, which previously was 100% attainable as long as you put in the time each week to pick up your arena points. The ratings of Season 3 put some fractures in this illusion, and the proposed ratings of S4 have shattered it.

Since, in my experience, no matter what the majority of the people actually say, gear matters and is important to them. That carrot has to be dangled. I "could" get T6 gear, if I could just get a raiding group together. I 'could' get arena gear, if I just played 10 games a week.

With Arena, imo, it's even easier than that. The major draw is the gear and only the gear. At least with PvE, you can claim to be interested in the content, story and lore of a place in addition to the gear. With PvP...what's the point, if not to get better gear to stomp people more quickly? Look at how all the sudden interest "took off" in PvP, with the addition of easy to acquire gear, for instance. Pretty much since it's inception, arena was seen as the easiest path to great gear. Now Blizz is changing that. This move will, imo, have huge ramifications in the PvP circuit.

Well, okay, but you can still buy free awesome epics with the points. All the S3 gear is still out there, now with lower needed ratings, and that's still BT quality gear. S4 gear is also obtainable. Anyone can still do 3-4 weeks and get some killer gloves, and with a little luck and skill, start moving up to the next couple of pieces.

Is that not enough of a carrot? It's still free gear for 10 games a week. Why would you stop just because a larger share of the rewards are getting out of reach? Are people *that* sensitive to the change in potential rewards, that they'll completely abandon a whole mode of play just on the basis that it's slightly harder to get S4 weapons and some armours?

-Jester

[Kevin]

Well, okay, but you can still buy free awesome epics with the points. All the S3 gear is still out there, now with lower needed ratings, and that's still BT quality gear. S4 gear is also obtainable. Anyone can still do 3-4 weeks and get some killer gloves, and with a little luck and skill, start moving up to the next couple of pieces.

Is that not enough of a carrot? It's still free gear for 10 games a week. Why would you stop just because a larger share of the rewards are getting out of reach? Are people *that* sensitive to the change in potential rewards, that they'll completely abandon a whole mode of play just on the basis that it's slightly harder to get S4 weapons and some armours?

-Jester

I think I'm with you on this.

Assuming that getting a rating in the new system is no more difficult than it is now (which I'm not sure will be a safe assumption). I figure anything that takes 1600 rating or less to get will be in reach of anyone that is doing PvP for PvP and not just doing it for points and items. But folks who actually are playing for the fun that you can have in arenas and trying to win. This group would include you and myself. Neither of us is a super PvP player and neither of us is really heavily into it but since we do try I figure we can get to at least 1600. So that means

Chest: 1600
Legs: 1550
Gloves: none
Off-hand: none

and the honor point stuff of

Bracers: 1575
Belt: none
Necklace: none
Trinket: none

Should all be available. That actually seems reasonable to me.


You lose out on the Boots, ring, helm, weaon and shoulders, though the ring is probably doable if you get a lucky streak one day but if you play PvP for PvP 1550-1650 isn't that horrible to hold. Probably still lose out on the S3 weapon as well, can't remember what those drop to.

When I consider that I have S3 PvP gear on an alt who doesn't actually wear that S3 gear in PvE because Kara and badge gear is better for PvE I'm not worried about it. Of course I do still wear an S1 piece on a toon in PvE but that will get destroyed by badge gear if I do one more Kara.

Dumping so much itemization into resilience, extra armor and stamina actually looks to keep most of the PvP gear a full tier behind for PvE purposes. Though since the PvE gear is guaranteed and PvE gear is not the PvP stuff is still used by PvE folks as stopgap gear. My shaman wears the S3 helm but not the S3 gloves in healing gear and I wouldn't wear the S3 helm if I got the T4 helm. Of course some of this is because my PvP gear is gemmed for PvP not for PvE. The value does change the equation.

And you'll add all the S2 gear as honor purchase without arena ratings on it. Since most of MH seems to be easier than SSC (not sure how nerfed Hyjal is now) that door should still be very open.

The folks who lost 10 games a week would take a long time to get the gear anyway. So now you have to be 4-6 to 6-4 (yes you can go 4-6 in the 1500-1600 range and gain rating) and by the time you have the points stored up you should have the rating. Oh noes. You can't lose all the time to get gear. Just like you can't go and wipe to the bosses in MH and get gear. All this means is that you generally have to win more than you lose to get gear.

And again since all the S2 gear will be out there for honor and you have blue rep stuff you can buy to help you in BG's the barriers to entry aren't as big as they used to be.


This will drive people out of arenas and PvP. As a casual PvP player that actually plays for the PvP I don't care. I don't like to lose in arena, and I grumble but I still have fun as long as I know that I played as well as I could. If I lost to someone better oh well. If I lost because I made a stupid mistake I get grumbly for a minute or two then it's done. I try to learn and move on.

[Mirajj]

This will drive people out of arenas and PvP. As a casual PvP player that actually plays for the PvP I don't care. I don't like to lose in arena, and I grumble but I still have fun as long as I know that I played as well as I could. If I lost to someone better oh well. If I lost because I made a stupid mistake I get grumbly for a minute or two then it's done. I try to learn and move on.

Yes, but in this case you are the exception, not the rule.

I don't think it'll drive folks out of arena/pvp right away. It'll take some time, but I do think it'll drive a decent portion away.

[Gregorius]

I don't think it's anything to worry about. If the change is really as disruptive as some people expect, I'm sure it'll be tweaked. If Arena participation goes way down, I can't imagine that they won't try and recoup it. And if it's not that bad, then it's not that bad, problem solved. I know that I personally hope to do more PvP in the future, regardless of "stuff." I'm certainly trying to build up my Arena gear, but it's because I want to enjoy arena more, not so I can dress in more fancy suits. The mostly CA team I play 5's with right now doesn't care that I'm in the blue stuff mostly, so it's not like I "need" it, the same way I had to hit Kara, Gruul and Mag a few times at least, before I could start healing in T5. Besides, it really is sufficient when you're playing in the 1300s.;)

If I just wanted to dress up in pretty clothes, I'd...petiton a GM for that dress I got rid of when I needed space... <.<

[oldmandennis]

Won't stop me from playing, and I've never been even close to 1850, let alone 2000 or (heavens) 2200. Is it really a dealbreaker for casual arena players that they won't be able to get each and every arena piece in the season it comes out? After all, they are casual, they're not trying to be the ultimate.

-Jester

Here's the problem with that... Assuming you can hold onto 1600, you can go from scratch to all the gear available in ~4 months. 3 pieces of S4, the ranged/idol slot, and the S3 head.

In my particular situation, which is probably representative of many, I play in the high 1700's to low 1800's. I've had all the gear for a while, and like I said I've started purchasing stuff of marginal value because I'm up against the cap. If I hit S4 with 5k in the bank, and achieve 1800 for the S3 weapons, it will take me 2 months to cap out. Maybe I'll get a couple of S3 1h weapons for leveling, which will take less then 2 months. That will leave me with months of no incentive for queuing, other then getting blown up by point sellers.

The problem is that the system was setup to reward performance with points. If you can't buy anything with the points, they have little value to you, so if you can you sell them and if you can't you probably drop out.

[Jester]

Here's the problem with that... Assuming you can hold onto 1600, you can go from scratch to all the gear available in ~4 months. 3 pieces of S4, the ranged/idol slot, and the S3 head.

In my particular situation, which is probably representative of many, I play in the high 1700's to low 1800's. I've had all the gear for a while, and like I said I've started purchasing stuff of marginal value because I'm up against the cap. If I hit S4 with 5k in the bank, and achieve 1800 for the S3 weapons, it will take me 2 months to cap out. Maybe I'll get a couple of S3 1h weapons for leveling, which will take less then 2 months. That will leave me with months of no incentive for queuing, other then getting blown up by point sellers.

The problem is that the system was setup to reward performance with points. If you can't buy anything with the points, they have little value to you, so if you can you sell them and if you can't you probably drop out.

Question: why are you playing Arenas at all, if all you're going to do is stop playing Arenas once you have the gear? Are you just playing a higher-skill version of the "PvP to PvE" gear grind? Because, if not, why would you not keep playing?

Also, an answer: 4 months takes us nearly to WotLK. If I have all the PvP gear I can get by then, well, that sounds just about hunky dory. Is it really so incredibly crucial that I have more and more gear to purchase right up until the final instant when it becomes obsolete?

I dunno. Maybe I just don't care about gear quite that much. Again, this is an entire interesting mode of play we're talking about, not some badge-or-rep-grinding sideshow that you only tolerate because it pays off.

-Jester

[Mirajj]

not some badge-or-rep-grinding sideshow that you only tolerate because it pays off.

-Jester

This is, actually, how the majority of people I know feel about arenas. They set aside one day to put in their 10 matches so they can work towards the assured gear, and after that, happily go back to PvE.

[Concillian]

This is, actually, how the majority of people I know feel about arenas. They set aside one day to put in their 10 matches so they can work towards the assured gear, and after that, happily go back to PvE.

Personally I feel they should allow you to make an "arena gear" set that you use in arena and everyone has access to Arena gear and Arena gear only. This way the ladder really is a skill ladder. I think it's a little ludicrous that people are expected to "grind" out gear they only use in arena.

To me I would like to see Arena as something like how you treat an FPS type game. Something to do for fun when you have 30 minutes or an hour, not enough time for an instance, but just killing time. This would also eliminate any incentive for people playing outside their skill level (point selling). It might dramatically reduce incentive for some, but if they don't want to be playing arena, they should be happier for it.

It's clear, however, that Blizzard feels the need to introduce grinds in order to keep the goal oriented players playing.

[Bolty]

This is, actually, how the majority of people I know feel about the entire game. They set aside time to get their gear that they want, and after that, happily go back to ignoring everyone else.

Corrected to fit my own personal experiences. :)

-Bolty

[Jester]

This is, actually, how the majority of people I know feel about arenas. They set aside one day to put in their 10 matches so they can work towards the assured gear, and after that, happily go back to PvE.

How strange and how sad.

-Jester