GOT season 7 thread

[kandrathe]

I started watching ep.4 with some dread for Dany's position. I actually just told myself, "the story is the story". It will be one I like, or not.

I'm anticipating the Little Finger, Arya encounter. I believe he should be on her list for betraying Eddard.

[Occhidiangela]

Taem, that was a fun link, thank you.
Ep 4.
Dragons, well done!

[Taem]

Taem, that was a fun link, thank you.
Ep 4.
Dragons, well done!

Yes, I thought it was a fun little commentary. Glad you enjoyed it!

[kandrathe]

It's all over. Reflection? I think the "Command Dead" spell needs to be nerfed.

[Taem]

I was falling asleep after watching the finale last night and something incredible dawned on me. I remembered how the white walkers take babies, alive. I remember how Cerci is pregnant, and her betrayal of the alliance. Now I'm thinking Cerci is going to become..... Duh duh duh... The ice queen! Just let that sink in for a moment and realize the reality of that statement! I honestly believe this will happen! Thoughts?

[Bolty]

[Taem]

I just heard an interesting theory from one of my coworkers I thought I'd share. She believes that the Ice King is actually Brandon Stark. Apparently, there is a whole internet conspiracy group based around this concept, quoting such details as their similar appearance and dress, mannerisms, and of course, Brandon's ability to not only worg, but visit the past. They cite how the Ice King is intimately aware of Bran's presence, whereas no one else seems to be, that we know. As part of this theory, they postulate that near the middle of the series next season, Winterfell will be overrun by the undead and White Walkers (presumably, I suppose, after disposing of Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen), and Bran will be forced to Worg back in time to when the Ice King was first created, then worg into him to stop him from becoming the Ice King which will in fact not be stopped and will result in Bran becoming the Ice King in the past. Assuming this is true, I fail to see why Bran would continue his rampage South, unless there was in fact a bigger threat South he was trying to save mankind from... highly unlikely, but interesting theory nonetheless.

Interesting short video here supporting this theory, along with more facts I did't know or forgot, such as Bran being the name of several very important people throughout time. Fairly convincing.
https://youtu.be/S1mFoDK4sUQ

But this one is the icing on the cake after you watch both videos. It seems White Walkers are made of the Ice Kings magic, but the Ice King was made with Dragon Glass. Different species, so to speak.
https://youtu.be/EjxVf0w-RKc

Thoughts?

[kandrathe]

I try not to speculate too much. My understanding is that the children of the forest created the first white walkers(s) to drive men out of their land, but evidently the army got away from them and turned on them. Then, it seems they were forced to ally with humans to contain the white walker army which seems to become dormant in the summer, but gains strength in winter.

Bran, I believe, not only sees the past, present, and future, but actually spiritually projects himself into the places he's viewing, and he hasn't exhibited this power yet, but his super worg ability would allow him to take over and possess a persons body during these projection events. So, I think Bran is quite possibly more powerful than anybody we've seen so far. Much more powerful than Dany, Jon, Cerce, or the Ice King. He cannot control the dead, but could possess a person to manipulate the events of any time, allowing any story line to play out many different ways.

If you remember the tower scene where Bran called out to his father, who reacted to hearing it... so, yes, the Ice King senses him, but it means to me that Bran is incorporeally manifested in the place and time of his visions. Is the Ice King Bran? No, I think not. They are two sentient beings occupying the same time frame, so it really doesn't make sense to me that the hypothesis is true. If the Ice King is to be stopped, it will need to be by a magic stronger than being able to command a 100k plus army of undead. Dragons seem to be a way, or well armed army with dragon glass weapons, or maybe something Samwell hasn't discovered yet. Knowing, or getting to know, G.R.R. Martin, I don't think his story arcs moral will be that might makes right, or overwhelming force is the solution. More likely, it will be a more cunning, or intellectual solution.


I think it is the perfect writers vehicle to allow for the HBO version of the tales, to then also be consistent with future book versions.

[Taem]

I try not to speculate too much. My understanding is that the children of the forest created the first white walkers(s) to drive men out of their land, but evidently the army got away from them and turned on them. Then, it seems they were forced to ally with humans to contain the white walker army which seems to become dormant in the summer, but gains strength in winter.

Bran, I believe, not only sees the past, present, and future, but actually spiritually projects himself into the places he's viewing, and he hasn't exhibited this power yet, but his super worg ability would allow him to take over and possess a persons body during these projection events. So, I think Bran is quite possibly more powerful than anybody we've seen so far. Much more powerful than Dany, Jon, Cerce, or the Ice King. He cannot control the dead, but could possess a person to manipulate the events of any time, allowing any story line to play out many different ways.

If you remember the tower scene where Bran called out to his father, who reacted to hearing it... so, yes, the Ice King senses him, but it means to me that Bran is incorporeally manifested in the place and time of his visions. Is the Ice King Bran? No, I think not. They are two sentient beings occupying the same time frame, so it really doesn't make sense to me that the hypothesis is true. If the Ice King is to be stopped, it will need to be by a magic stronger than being able to command a 100k plus army of undead. Dragons seem to be a way, or well armed army with dragon glass weapons, or maybe something Samwell hasn't discovered yet. Knowing, or getting to know, G.R.R. Martin, I don't think his story arcs moral will be that might makes right, or overwhelming force is the solution. More likely, it will be a more cunning, or intellectual solution.


I think it is the perfect writers vehicle to allow for the HBO version of the tales, to then also be consistent with future book versions.

You clearly didn't watch the two video links, lol. Please, just give them a quick once over. Combined, they are less than 10-minutes, I implore you! There are talking points in there straight out of the TV series that were overlooked.

1. SUB-SPECIES
a. WHITE WALKERS: The Children created the first White Walkers via magic. The Ice King creates the White Walkers from Crasters children via magic.
b. ICE KING: The Ice King was created via Dragonglass in the heart. He is NOT a White Walker!
c. WIGHTS: The Wights (undead) are created by White Walkers. So, these are three distinct sub-species here.

2. BRAN IN TIME
a. BRAN THE BUILDER: He who built the wall. In depictions of him in the books, Bran the Builder is a cripple whom cannot walk and is carried about on a hoist or carriage, wise beyond his years with a knowledge to build the wall no one had ever seen or conceived of at the time.
b. ICE KING: Nan told Bran a story back in season 1 of the Ice King, who was said to be a Stark, brother to the King in the North, and whose name was Bran!

3. ICE KINGS ACTIONS
a. JON SNOW: The Ice King has encountered Jon Snow twice, and both times, did not personally engage him or let his White Walkers engage him, only his wights. Why does the Ice King have such an interest in Jon Snow. The Ice King could have easily walked over the frozen lake to refreeze the broken areas and let the wights finish Jon, but he did not.
b. DRAGON: And to that specific point, how and why did the Ice King know to bring giant chains with him for dragging out the Dragons corpse from the waters? What advanced knowledge did the Ice King possess that allowed him this foresight?
b. BRAN STARK: The Ice King seems pretty hell-bent on killing Bran Stark. I'd wager that if Bran indeed worged back into him and couldn't get out, that to break the cycle, the Ice King would try to end himself also. Think Hordor here. Once you watch the video about the warnings from the original three-eyed raven about going back too far, it'll all make sense!

4. SPECULATIONS
a. WINTERFELL DESTROYED: Those who survive flee South and regroup in Kings Landing.
b. KINGS LANDING: Besieged; at this time, to protect and save humanity, Bran worgs into the past to tell the Mad King to create MORE wild fire, which in turn makes him mad hearing Bran's whispers.
c. THE WALL: Bran tries worging further into the past to stop the White Walkers at the first war, but ends up helping create the Wall during this period.
d. ICE KING: Finally, Bran worgs to the creation of the Ice King against the three-eyed ravens prophecy of going back too far and ends up unable to prevent the Ice King from being created, so worgs directly into the Ice King to intervene, but again is unable to prevent it from happening, then is unable to return to his time due to the prophecy of the three-eyed raven coming true.

Watch the short video links and we can discuss. It's actually really exciting and intriguing.

[kandrathe]

I try not to speculate too much. My understanding is that the children of the forest created the first white walkers(s) to drive men out of their land, but evidently the army got away from them and turned on them. Then, it seems they were forced to ally with humans to contain the white walker army which seems to become dormant in the summer, but gains strength in winter.

Bran, I believe, not only sees the past, present, and future, but actually spiritually projects himself into the places he's viewing, and he hasn't exhibited this power yet, but his super worg ability would allow him to take over and possess a persons body during these projection events. So, I think Bran is quite possibly more powerful than anybody we've seen so far. Much more powerful than Dany, Jon, Cerce, or the Ice King. He cannot control the dead, but could possess a person to manipulate the events of any time, allowing any story line to play out many different ways.

If you remember the tower scene where Bran called out to his father, who reacted to hearing it... so, yes, the Ice King senses him, but it means to me that Bran is incorporeally manifested in the place and time of his visions. Is the Ice King Bran? No, I think not. They are two sentient beings occupying the same time frame, so it really doesn't make sense to me that the hypothesis is true. If the Ice King is to be stopped, it will need to be by a magic stronger than being able to command a 100k plus army of undead. Dragons seem to be a way, or well armed army with dragon glass weapons, or maybe something Samwell hasn't discovered yet. Knowing, or getting to know, G.R.R. Martin, I don't think his story arcs moral will be that might makes right, or overwhelming force is the solution. More likely, it will be a more cunning, or intellectual solution.


I think it is the perfect writers vehicle to allow for the HBO version of the tales, to then also be consistent with future book versions.

You clearly didn't watch the two video links, lol. Please, just give them a quick once over. Combined, they are less than 10-minutes, I implore you! There are talking points in there straight out of the TV series that were overlooked.

1. SUB-SPECIES
a. WHITE WALKERS: The Children created the first White Walkers via magic. The Ice King creates the White Walkers from Crasters children via magic.
b. ICE KING: The Ice King was created via Dragonglass in the heart. He is NOT a White Walker!
c. WIGHTS: The Wights (undead) are created by White Walkers. So, these are three distinct sub-species here.

2. BRAN IN TIME
a. BRAN THE BUILDER: He who built the wall. In depictions of him in the books, Bran the Builder is a cripple whom cannot walk and is carried about on a hoist or carriage, wise beyond his years with a knowledge to build the wall no one had ever seen or conceived of at the time.
b. ICE KING: Nan told Bran a story back in season 1 of the Ice King, who was said to be a Stark, brother to the King in the North, and whose name was Bran!

3. ICE KINGS ACTIONS
a. JON SNOW: The Ice King has encountered Jon Snow twice, and both times, did not personally engage him or let his White Walkers engage him, only his wights. Why does the Ice King have such an interest in Jon Snow. The Ice King could have easily walked over the frozen lake to refreeze the broken areas and let the wights finish Jon, but he did not.
b. DRAGON: And to that specific point, how and why did the Ice King know to bring giant chains with him for dragging out the Dragons corpse from the waters? What advanced knowledge did the Ice King possess that allowed him this foresight?
b. BRAN STARK: The Ice King seems pretty hell-bent on killing Bran Stark. I'd wager that if Bran indeed worged back into him and couldn't get out, that to break the cycle, the Ice King would try to end himself also. Think Hordor here. Once you watch the video about the warnings from the original three-eyed raven about going back too far, it'll all make sense!

4. SPECULATIONS
a. WINTERFELL DESTROYED: Those who survive flee South and regroup in Kings Landing.
b. KINGS LANDING: Besieged; at this time, to protect and save humanity, Bran worgs into the past to tell the Mad King to create MORE wild fire, which in turn makes him mad hearing Bran's whispers.
c. THE WALL: Bran tries worging further into the past to stop the White Walkers at the first war, but ends up helping create the Wall during this period.
d. ICE KING: Finally, Bran worgs to the creation of the Ice King against the three-eyed ravens prophecy of going back too far and ends up unable to prevent the Ice King from being created, so worgs directly into the Ice King to intervene, but again is unable to prevent it from happening, then is unable to return to his time due to the prophecy of the three-eyed raven coming true.

Watch the short video links and we can discuss. It's actually really exciting and intriguing.

No, I did. I just don't interpret the outcome this way... There may have been those past Brandon's. Not just possessions, but Ned's brother Bran, Bran the builder, Bran Stark from some other ancient time. If you look at the making of the Night King scene, the person bespelled by the Children of the Forest looks more like Bron of the black water.

[Jester]

a. BRAN THE BUILDER: He who built the wall. In depictions of him in the books, Bran the Builder is a cripple whom cannot walk and is carried about on a hoist or carriage, wise beyond his years with a knowledge to build the wall no one had ever seen or conceived of at the time.

Is there a description of Bran the Builder like this in the books? I can't find any reference to it.

-Jester

[Taem]

a. BRAN THE BUILDER: He who built the wall. In depictions of him in the books, Bran the Builder is a cripple whom cannot walk and is carried about on a hoist or carriage, wise beyond his years with a knowledge to build the wall no one had ever seen or conceived of at the time.

Is there a description of Bran the Builder like this in the books? I can't find any reference to it.

-Jester

My apologies, misquote on my end. The video said the depiction of Bran the Builder was included in the Season 2 DVD on the history of Westeros. Here's another interesting link: http://wikiofthrones.com/1763/heres-proo...er-person/

They quote an interesting passage from A Clash of Kings which seems to affirm the theory that Bran is most likely Bran the Builder.

[Jester]

They quote an interesting passage from A Clash of Kings which seems to affirm the theory that Bran is most likely Bran the Builder.

How does a myth about a young Bran the Builder advising Durran on the construction of Storm's End imply that he is Bran Stark-the-Three-Eyed-Raven?

-Jester

[Taem]

They quote an interesting passage from A Clash of Kings which seems to affirm the theory that Bran is most likely Bran the Builder.

How does a myth about a young Bran the Builder advising Durran on the construction of Storm's End imply that he is Bran Stark-the-Three-Eyed-Raven?

-Jester

I couldn't say. I'm only paraphrasing what the fan-theory website claims, as I myself haven't read past the first book. It's all fun and speculation at this point, but it seems a great deal of viewers hated season 7, including several outspoken critics. The fact is, even if Bran were supposed to be whoever he's supposed to be, the writers are doing so bad, it really doesn't matter because they're clearly doing whatever they want. Here are three viewpoints on season 7, each with different gripes on why it sucked, and their arguments are legitimately painful to read because they are all too true:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20...9f9c93206c

http://www.nme.com/blogs/tv-blogs/game-o...ch-2124791

https://geeks.media/why-game-of-thrones-sucks-now

[kandrathe]

They quote an interesting passage from A Clash of Kings which seems to affirm the theory that Bran is most likely Bran the Builder.

How does a myth about a young Bran the Builder advising Durran on the construction of Storm's End imply that he is Bran Stark-the-Three-Eyed-Raven?

-Jester

I couldn't say. I'm only paraphrasing what the fan-theory website claims, as I myself haven't read past the first book. It's all fun and speculation at this point, but it seems a great deal of viewers hated season 7, including several outspoken critics. The fact is, even if Bran were supposed to be whoever he's supposed to be, the writers are doing so bad, it really doesn't matter because they're clearly doing whatever they want. Here are three viewpoints on season 7, each with different gripes on why it sucked, and their arguments are legitimately painful to read because they are all too true:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20...9f9c93206c

http://www.nme.com/blogs/tv-blogs/game-o...ch-2124791

https://geeks.media/why-game-of-thrones-sucks-now

I would have to believe it is quite different for the writers once they got past the written plot. Before, they could choose the parts to keep from a rich story tapestry, now they have GRR's threads, and are attempting to weave something decent. But, you can tell the difference. It's a hard choice to stop the juggernaut because of the serendipity mood of the main creator. Or, to just plow on ahead into the void, keep the cast and crew, production company, and try to wrap it up... cleanly, with creative direction from Mr. Martin.

It's like... do you want LOTR all done together with the same cast. Or, do you want the hack job that was Star Wars. I'd vote for the LOTR plan, even if the story suffers... hopefully GRR will get the time and muse to fill in the blanks a bit better.