3.0.2 Tankadin Gear

[Taelas]

Yeah, SoV is awesome now.:D

[Tuftears]

On trash that dies too fast for SoV to tick and as the DPS seal for Holy paladins.

Sadly, holy paladins will actually get more DPS from SoV too. They overnerfed Seal of Righteousness, looks like. Comparison:

905 dps SoR
930 dps SoV
720 dps SoMartyr

This was with spellpower gear. With attack power gear, the numbers change to:

982 dps SoR
1280 dps SoV
1140 dps SoMartyr

All DPS comparisons performed with melee, Holy Shock, and Shield of Righteousness, as well as judging wisdom.

[Taelas]

When Holy paladins DPS, they will be soloing; I honestly doubt you'll be able to stack SoV high enough before the mobs die with SoV.

Regardless, soloing as a Holy paladin should be much less painful with ShoR, the new Holy Shock, and the Spellpower change.:)

[Mordekhuul]

Latest, greatest summary of how various stats apply to threat generation for us, according to analysis on the EJ forum

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t28560-paladin...145/#post899118

Threat scaling values for prot threat stats:

From a spreadsheet that i believe is mostly correct, given a spec with Seals of the Pure but not reckoning: (something like this)
Note that the first stat (TPS) is before buffs, and the 2nd stat (TPS per iPoint) = after kings/divine strength and shows the threat per relative value of the stat.
(This doesn't include crit or resist rates as i assumed they would be the same for both sor/sov)

Both Seals:
1 Weapon DPS = 2.1 TPS
1 BV = 1.41 TPS = 2.56 TPS per iPoint
Using SOR:
1 AP = 0.45 TPS = 0.9 TPS per iPoint
1 SP = 0.4 TPS = 0.47 TPS per iPoint
1 Str = 1.49 TPS = 1.88 TPS per iPoint.
1 Sta = 0.133 TPS = 0.225 TPS per iPoint
1 Sec weapon speed = 44 TPS (slower = more threat, due to SOR procs on HotR and SotR)

Using SOV:
1 AP = 0.5 TPS = 1 TPS per iPoint
1 SP = .38 TPS = 0.44 TPS per iPoint
1 Str = 1.66 TPS = 2.1 TPS per iPoint
1 Sta = 0.114 TPS = 0.21 TPS per iPoint
1 Sec weapon speed = 3 TPS

Using SOV and an epic spellpower weapon:
1 DPS = 2.1 TPS as melee weapon
1 Sac DPS = (7*0.38 ) = 2.66 TPS as a spellpower weapon.
Which puts spellpower on a weapon as the best scaling stat, followed by block value and strength from other sources.

And as a starting point, for a paladin with stats (after buffs) of 2500 AP, 600 SP, 700 BV:
with the Titansteel Guardian: =3113 TPS with Vengeance
with Titansteel Bonecrusher: = 3128 TPS with Vengeance
-- the Bonecrusher comes out ahead due to the 140 AP on the weapon - without this AP, bonecrusher is at 3062 TPS.

Cool to see the Bonecrusher come out ahead now. I fancy the idea of sticking to non-SP weapons by and large, for a change.

[Mordekhuul]

As hinted in blue posts, looks like salvation has truly been baked into Righteous Fury. Here are some beta tests confirming, thanks to uber-EJ-poster Cathela:

But testing with Avenger's Shield without RF gives:

1642 damage -> 1674.84 threat
1451 damage -> 1480.02 threat

From that I'm going to assume that AS has no "high threat" modifier anymore, and that the snare effect causes roughly 30 threat.

Now, testing Avenger's Shield with RF gives:

1560 damage -> 4323.29 threat

If we take away 30 threat to account for the snare, that's 4293 threat from the damage, which is almost exactly what you'd expect if you had the standard RF effect (190% threat from Holy damage), plus an extra bonus for "baked-in salv" (multiply by 142.8%).

It's only one test (I'll do some more to confirm) but it looks like we're getting baked in salv in addition to a couple of new high-threat moves. Seems excessive to me, but I guess at least it means 3.0 won't be a huge worry.

Link to the Post

[Mordekhuul]

Originally Posted by Mordekhuul

Thanks for posting this, but what does "1 Sac DPS" mean? I'm just missing some obvious word that "Sac" abbreviates, I believe.

Thanks.

You've probably noticed that weapons with high +Spell Damage, such as the Continuum Blade for example, have a lower DPS than other weapons of a similar ilvl. This is because a certain amount of weapon DPS is sacrificed (hence 'Sac') for Spell Power, at a rate of 1 DPS = 7 Spellpower.

Hence his value for Threat per second: 1 Sacrificed DPS = (7 Spell damage * 0.38 Threat per Spell Damage for SoV) = 2.66 Threat Per Second.

Hope that explains it.

Posted originally here

[Mordekhuul]

Advise me Lurker tanks.

I have a choice to make before 3.0.2 hits, unless Illidan only drops non-pally tokens this week.

I can either take the Lightbringer Chestguard, as I am top priority in our raids at the moment, or I can buy Chestplate of Stoicism with some of the 360+ badges sitting in my bank.

Lets assume I put strictly 15 Stamina gems in all slots, as is my want (except rare cases where socket bonuses mitigate the stamina loss significantly).

Stoicism Has:
+3 Defense Rating
+34 Dodge Rating (1.8% Dodge)

Lightbringer Has:
+21 stamina (two extra sockets, minus the extra stam Stoicism has on it innately).
+9 Strength
+60 Armor
+8 BV (+12 if you count BV given from the extra strength).
+23 Block Rating

Now, I am thinking that I should discount the 23 BR Lightbringer gives me, as I am usually a good 5% over the 102.4 avoidance cap as it is, when holy shield is up, and even after losing 20 defense from talents in 3.0.2 I'll be over 102.4 with current gear, so extra block rating is lost.

The extra 9 Strength on Lightbringer is an extra 16 (or so, counting Kings) AP, which is a threat/DPS boost, but minor, and is an extra 4.5 BV.

The extra 12.5 BV from lightbringer is a nice, but minor boost, as is the 60 armor, to mitigation.

It seems to me, and correct me if I am undervaluing some of these stats, that what it really boils down to is 21 stamina (lightbringer) versus 1.8% dodge (stoicism).

21 stamina, for me, translates into about 21*(1.1 kings)*(1.06 sacred duty)*(1.06 combat expertise)*10 = around 260 HP.

So for a tier 6 geared tank....260 HP with a few more minor boosts thrown in or 1.8% dodge?

[Taelas]

9 STR = 18 AP prior to Divine Strength and Kings. With them, it's 9 x 1.15 x 1.1 x 2 = 22 AP.

Remember that avoidance will have diminishing returns after 3.0.2, which will lower your overall avoidance. That can have an effect.

I'd choose Lightbringer, but I prefer Effective Health to avoidance. Then again, if you socket health in all your gem slots, you might be well covered in that area already, in which case Stoicism might be the better choice.

Socketing stamina gems is all well and good, but a more balanced approach is often better. This is not something I'm particularly good at myself; I usually socket stamina, but my gear also sucks royally -- I need it to get the EH minimums I'm trying to meet in the content I usually do.

[Frag]

What are your post-3.0 raid plans, Morde? Content dictates gearing, imo. Are you heading to Brutallus or chilling with T6? Would determine the importance of avoidance vs. EH.

~FragB)

[Mordekhuul]

What are your post-3.0 raid plans, Morde? Content dictates gearing, imo. Are you heading to Brutallus or chilling with T6? Would determine the importance of avoidance vs. EH.

~FragB)

We are mostly playing with Illidan and Archimonde, with perhaps a couple of nights in Sunwell or so, a ZA speed run just to see how amusingly easy it is compared to our pre-patch bear runs (even though the 4th chest will be empty).

Our tanks have pretty much always believed in gemming for stamina over avoidance, except cases where things like +6 stam socket bonuses meant you only lose a few stamina to put a non-blue gem in place.

[Taelas]

I believe they're actually putting a ring in the fourth chest.

Gemming for stamina is sort of like adhering to the lowest common denominator: It works on almost everything, but it isn't the optimal solution. It is by far the easiest (and simplest) choice, which is why so many favor it (including myself).

[Mordekhuul]

I believe they're actually putting a ring in the fourth chest.

Gemming for stamina is sort of like adhering to the lowest common denominator: It works on almost everything, but it isn't the optimal solution. It is by far the easiest (and simplest) choice, which is why so many favor it (including myself).

I'm right there with you. To make an honest assessment of optimal gem choice would mean first deciding which fights you are choosing to gem for (heavy hitters with fast attack speed? slow, heavy hitters? dual wielding fast hitters? AOE tanking?), and then require analysis of things like relative mitigation, time to live assuming no heals and such.

Compared to that, a simple rule of gem for stamina unless socket bonuses provide enough stamina that the loss is minimal...

[Frag]

In that case, and this is simply personal opinion based on observation and not having been there myself, I'd go with the heavier avoidance with a dodge gem in the red socket. Avoidance makes for easier farming runs, and (at least now) is at a premium for most tanks in SWP.

YMMV,
~FragB)

[shoju]

Remember as well, Post 3.0 Sunwell Radiance is GONE. So, if you want to do SWP nights, it will be a little easier.

I'm not sure how that would way into the gem fight, but I'm excited at the prospect of being able to poke around in there.