Hearthstone

[DilenSey]

Blizzard has a new game coming out, Hearthstone. It's a bit like the card games that used to be found in games like Final Fantasy 8, where it is a riff off of the base game (in this case, World of Warcraft) and a dumb-downed Magic: The Gathering.

I love this game!
Yes it is a dumbed down MG... but then Magic has always been wayyy too complicated for me. This game is the perfect combination of depth and accessibility.

This will definitively be one of the most successful OCGs in he next few years.

[DeeBye]

Great minds think alike?

[kandrathe]

I just got a tweet inviting me to join the open beta --

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/

[DeeBye]

I just got a tweet inviting me to join the open beta --

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/

It's been in open beta for a couple of weeks now.

[kandrathe]

I just got a tweet inviting me to join the open beta --

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/

It's been in open beta for a couple of weeks now.

There is no news like old news. But, it's one reason I love the Lounge. I hear about stuff months before its available, so if I'm inclined I can go stand in some queue.

It's more of a comment on how Blizzard finally got around to inviting their customers to try their new product, being that I own everything they've ever made.

[DeeBye]

It's more of a comment on how Blizzard finally got around to inviting their customers to try their new product, being that I own everything they've ever made.

It's been plastered all over the Battle.net website and the Battle.net app since Jan. 21. They probably could have sent out some emails though.

[DeeBye]

Is anyone still playing this? I am, and I'm learning a lot. I've never played card games like this in a competitive setting, so early on I was getting trounced. I'd win a couple of matches and feel good about myself, then lose like 5 in a row and feel shame. I'd retool my deck and do a little bit better, and feel less shame. I still lose a lot, but I am learning.

Here is what I have learned. Pro card players are free to mercilessly critique me.

Cards on the board in your control + cards in your hand are key. The absolute worst mistake you can make while playing Hearthstone is to run out of cards to play. If you rely on getting a new card to play on your next turn, you're gonna have a bad time. Don't blow all your mana gems to play every card in your hand, just because you can. Any card that allows you to draw another card is worth itself.

When a card does damage to multiple targets, don't use it on a single target unless you REALLY have to.

Your health is usually irrelevant, until you get low enough that your opponent can kill you in the next turn with the minions he has on his/her side.

Trade cards at less than a 1:1 ratio. If it costs you 1 card to kill multiple minions, go for it. If it costs you more than 1 card to kill a single minion, think about it some more.

[shoju]

From what I understand about the game, and being a former "high caliber" CCG player in other games, that is a pretty sound strategy. For me, Hearthstone isn't very attractive. It's.... and I do not mean offense to anyone who plays the game with the next comment, just too simplistic of a game for my tastes.

A brief history
I was weaned on Old School Magic the Gathering. I started playing MTG when 4th edition hit shelves, and moved on to games like Legend of the Five Rings (where I found moderate success), and then culminating in Deadlands: Doomtown, where I found quite a bit of success. Even with Doomtown being "dead" (not being printed any longer) for a decade, the game still has a pretty solid following, and there are still people who seek me out in dark corners of the internet to get my opinion on the faction I played heavily.
end brief history.

The lack of in turn interaction between players was really the biggest killer of the game in terms of my interest. Each game that I played, I was very interested in the interactions that happened on turn between players. Counters, reactions, etc... That hidden element, where you were keeping an eye on, and calculating what they could possibly have in their hand that would matter on your turn, was a strategic element of games that I found incredibly enjoyable.

Well, that and I'm a card flopper. I want to feel the cards in my hand.

[DeeBye]

I just had the most satisfying Arena win today. I was a Mage, playing against a Priest. We were trading minions without doing much direct damage to each other. We were both very near 30 health fairly late into the game (we both had 10 mana gems per turn to play). We both had a sizable stack of cards in hand. He had a 4/7 Archmage down, so I put down Sylvanas Windrunner (Deathrattle: Take control of a random enemy minion) and an Archmage of my own, and ended my turn.

My opponent put down a 2/7 Gurubashi Berserker, then put 2x Divine Spirit (doubles a minion's health) on it to bring its health to 28. Then he put Inner Fire on it (Change a minion's Attack to be equal to its Health), to make it a 28/28 dude. I was basically screwed when he attacked next.

I guess he overlooked my Sylvanas Windrunner, and so did I. I was about to give up when my son noticed something I did not. He pointed out that I could attack his 4/7 Archmage with my own Archmage to bring it down to 4/3, then attack with my 5/5 Sylvanas Windrunner to kill it. My Sylvanas Windrunner was left with 1 Health, but I still had 2 mana gems to use my hero power to kill her and activate her deathrattle, and the only enemy minion left on the board to steal was the 28/28 dude.

It became mine to control, my opponent was left with no minions and he conceded immediately.

---

For me, Hearthstone isn't very attractive. It's.... and I do not mean offense to anyone who plays the game with the next comment, just too simplistic of a game for my tastes.

That comment isn't offensive at all. Simple games can be fun games. Complex games can be fun games. To each his own.

[Frag]

It's more than simplistic though, to those of us that played card games at a high level it's actively missing things that we loved about that experience. In addition to that, at least for me, the card pool is simply pathetic and I believe that's where a lot of the issues with the game come from. I'm truly glad people are enjoying it, but I simply get bored far too easily with it, mostly because its non-interactive with your opponent and it's so transparent what is going to be played.

[swirly]

In addition to that, at least for me, the card pool is simply pathetic and I believe that's where a lot of the issues with the game come from.

I agree with that. It also gives me hope though. As a very simple starter base the current cards work, but are over limiting and simple. There are a certain number of deck types you see that the card pool and hero system pushes upon you and then it is minor tweaks within those decks. I enjoy the minor tweaking personally. I'm still not sure what is the best version of a Shaman deck and the fact that I haven't settled on a deck list and kept with it is a good thing I think. I'm constantly tweaking and trying to decide which card to take out and which card to add. Often I feel like there isn't a really good card to add though. Which is a problem. It feels like finding the best generic card instead of really finding the perfect card.

The way I look at it all though is that expansions are basically the solution to all the complaints. Is the current version overly simple and have a limited card pool? Sure. It is enough to get people used to things and get people who have never played these kinds of games to learn some of the tricks. I've been playing what I feel is a good amount and I still don't have all the cards that I feel I need. I'm constantly going "man I wish I had that card for X deck." So I feel like there is enough for a start. I think the beta hurts them some though. People are going to be worn out of it before it is even officially released. I envision them releasing it and then a full year passing before they release an expansion and that feels like too long. If none of us had played it yet then it would be fine, but we have. So we are all going to be burned out way before they add to it.

Eventually they will release an expansion though. Then the card pool will expand. That will solve a lot of issues itself. I can see them gradually adding more complicated mechanics too. First expansion is probably more cards and mechanics that work within the current timing. So maybe regen or first strike or such like that. All things that are easy to add right now. Then the second expansion they add in instants. I feel like it really is only a matter of time. I can't see them keeping the game as basic in it's timing as it is right now forever. Blizzard has always been about progression. When you start a level 1 character you don't have all your skills. The game teaches you as you play and gives you more over time. Same is true here except expansions are character levels basically. So the first one doesn't give you everything so you have time to learn what they do give you. Then the next one adds more on top of that. Then onwards and onwards.

So my choice is to look at the game in those terms. More of a "is this something they can build off of to eventually have something really good" than a "is this something really good right now". It definitely needs some growing, but I can see the potential. I just hope Blizzard figures out how to reach it before time runs out. I'm not sure if people will give them time to grow it or not.


Non-related to most of that, I feel like an issue annoying me is the ranked system. I really enjoy playing that. I'm finding that I'm not even playing Arena much anymore cause when I bother to log in I want to play my Shaman deck and try to advance in ranks. Yet I would also like to play other deck types too. I'd like to play them in ranked, but then I'd potentially ruin the ranking my Shaman deck has earned me. I wish rank was tied to class. So I could play a Shaman and see how high I can climb and then play a Warlock and start off at rank 25 with it and see how high I can climb with that too. Instead I feel like I have to stick with whatever deck I feel is my current best. Which leaves the others to never even compete with it since they don't get played competitively. I'm worried about this more than the other issues cause it isn't something that expansions will solve. It is something Blizzard has to see as a problem and decide to fix and I'm just not sure they will do that.

[Frag]

Hey, at least you're playing Shaman, one of the few heroes that truly has choices in card selection. Overall it's still going to be a control deck, but you have more flexibility and variety than any other class. It's what I mained when I was playing, simply because predicting and taking advantage of your totem system took some modicum of skill. They have said (somewhere...) that the ranked system is still in testing, so there is a chance that it will break out hero classes.

I must disagree about instants, I simply don't think they game is set up for them at all. Here is to hoping I'm wrong.

[Chesspiece_face]

I must disagree about instants, I simply don't think they game is set up for them at all. Here is to hoping I'm wrong.

I don't believe you will ever see active interactions between players on turns in Hearthstone. The closest you will come to Instants (as they exist in MTG) is if they expand further on the Secret class of cards. Which I am sure they will do.

For me that is where a lot of the present limitation with Hearthstone lies. 90% of the lifting duty is tied to creatures and that means for a creature to be viable it has to have the possibility to give card advantage. It's generally not good enough to just be mana efficient. Then you look at the ways in which a card can offer card advantage in Hearthstone and you are so slim in viable options.

I guess it all comes down to how hard they are willing to break open the conventions of the game. How many types of combos are they willing to allow? Would they be willing to create Secret cards that would be the equivalent of say a Draining Whelk?