Aspects of America

[ShadowHM]

I honestly don't really care who runs the country or care much about what the government does because it ultimately doesn't affect me a great deal. I don't have enough money that taxes (whether an increase or decrease in them) really matter much to me, and what someone's views on abortion or whatever are... why does that matter? Why is it the government's job to regulate that? Let the churches and other religious fanatics argue it till they're black in the face - it's not a big deal.

That said, I do believe that America is the best country to live in and be part of in the world (no offense to you Norwegians, of course:)) and that all these people running around and crying about tyranny and unfairness and whatever... just freaking leave and go to wherever you think the grass is greener. Once you're there for a few years, we'll talk again and see if you still feel the same way you did back then:P

Angel, it might be worth showing your students this - the result when people don't actually study history.

It brings to mind two quotes worth of study, one American and one German.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

And, Artega, it is handy to be able to ride on the coat-tails of those who do give a damn and spend the energy to protect your freedoms at the same time as they protect their own. ;)

[Tris]

That case is somewhat annoying yes. But, no more annoying than the "Patriot Act," the A&S Acts, and a whole host of other issues.

To me, the commerce clause is bad in a different way... the dormant commerce clause... a.k.a. the Sup. Crt.'s wonderful interpretation that even if there's nothing directly said about something, states can't work in certain areas. Some of the decisions were good, and supported the concepts of unity accross the U.S. Some of the decisions were also good because they standardized things accross the U.S. (Consider for a moment that a train starting in California and going to South Carolina had, at one point, been subject to a number of different restrictions including size, etc.) Also, truck drivers ran into problems because many states had different regulations on weight distribution, location of axles, etc. The downside to many decisions in these areas is that even where the federal government has not acted, the commerce clause sill blocks state action.

[kandrathe]

That case is somewhat annoying yes.

I would say more than annoying. What the interpretation does is classify any citizen's activity that might produce a good or service is under the control of the federal government. If you wanted to hold free swing dancing lessons for seniors, that could be sold, and therefore commerce. The interpretation means that you cannot do what you want on your own land. It seems to be one huge blow to freedom in America, and it paved the way for other similar rulings that denied citizens the rights to do what they want with their property. Now, granted, some cases like "Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States" are examples of where the commerce clause was again severely bent to try to prevent discrimination, but these days, the fourteenth amendment ("equal protection") and civil rights laws are a better basis.

Whether or not you like McCain, here is a good speech he gave last year in Iowa concerning Kelo v. City of New London. It also draws the distinct contrast between the basic natural law freedoms I seek to protect (the right to life, liberty, and property), which are threatened by forces of socialism that seek to drive the people into a dependence upon and subservience to the government.

[kandrathe]

I honestly don't really care who runs the country or care much about what the government does because it ultimately doesn't affect me a great deal. I don't have enough money that taxes (whether an increase or decrease in them) really matter much to me, and what someone's views on abortion or whatever are... why does that matter? Why is it the government's job to regulate that? Let the churches and other religious fanatics argue it till they're black in the face - it's not a big deal.

That said, I do believe that America is the best country to live in and be part of in the world (no offense to you Norwegians, of course:)) and that all these people running around and crying about tyranny and unfairness and whatever... just freaking leave and go to wherever you think the grass is greener. Once you're there for a few years, we'll talk again and see if you still feel the same way you did back then:P

British Documentary -- Five steps to Tyranny;

Step One - Us vs Them
Step Two - Follow Orders (Authority)
Step Three - Do "Them" Harm
Step Four - Stand By (Apathy)
Step Five - Exterminate "Them"

Why should you care? You don't live in Kosovo, or Rwanda, or Somalia... Yet. Hundreds of thousands of Americans, have died to preserve this notion of freedom as outlined in the Constitution. I am alarmed by how far down the road toward Tyranny we have progressed. In the "Us vs Them" model, just look at how much hatred there is in just this election. The outright hatred of Bush, of Republicans, or anyone religious. And, vice versa. There is no respect for alternative opinions, but rather a polarization and a willingness to humiliate and crush anyone who is not like minded.

[Artega]

My family, both father's side and mother's side, has a long history in the armed forces, particularly the Army. I am very much aware of the men and women that put their lives on the line to defend our freedoms, and I respect them for that. I'm also equally aware of the civil side of things, like police officers, firemen, and paramedics. I don't take these people for granted. I don't have much difficulty in envisioning what life (hah, what life?) would be like without these people.

I'm talking about the morons that are continually making a big deal out of nothing, particularly where legislation and religion meet - I don't think that religion has any business deciding how laws are made. But that's a discussion that usually results in aggressive talk on both sides, so I doubt the Lounge wants that. I'll keep those kind of discussions to the other gamer communities I'm a member of:P

[--Pete]

Hi,

. . . all these people running around and crying about tyranny and unfairness and whatever... just freaking leave and go to wherever you think the grass is greener.

"Love it or leave it", right? How about, "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that the good do nothing."?

If everyone thought (I use that term loosely) like you do, we'd still be living under the tyranny of god-kings. It is the people who love this country enough that they want it to be better that are the true patriots. Those that think like you are just short sighted, apathetic, chauvinists.

BTW, one of the best doctors I know got so fed up with the apathy, ignorance, and selfishness of this country that he emigrated to New Zealand (at a cost of about 1 million, I understand). He is far from being a unique case. So, yeah, it makes a difference at the personal level.

--Pete

[Artega]

Then it's an issue of what you consider right and wrong, because I personally don't think there's much wrong with America compared to some other countries in the world, particularly those in the middle east.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Then it's an issue of what you consider right and wrong, because I personally don't think there's much wrong with America compared to some other countries in the world, particularly those in the middle east.

Sure, compare us to the worst and then be happy that we beat them. You don't just set the bar low, you've set it underground. If you had as much pride in the USA as a Pacific Northwest slugs does, you'd be comparing us to the best, which we *used* to beat, and wondering what the eff happened. I do.

If you are happy with bridges that collapse, with paved roads that are returning to gravel, with a power distribution system that gives us annual brownouts, with a health care system that leaves millions out, with government agencies that flout the Constitution, with politicians that are under indictment (or even in jail) for crimes, with an educational system that ranks just about last in the *civilized* world, with government by bureaucracy and lobby, etc. (and those are just the issues that came to mind without thinking, there are many others) , then you are too easy to please. Maybe you need to look around. Maybe you need to develop a critical sense. Maybe you need to start caring.

--Pete

[Artega]

Maybe I do, but until I see a good enough reason to care, why should I? Because of some outdated concept of "the greater good"? I could bust my balls learning all the nuances and variations of our political system, learn as much as any college-level economist knows about our economic system, and all that stuff... but why bother? It has very little bearing on my life, and it wouldn't benefit me in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it'd just make life worse.

Let the heroes and martyrs work their magic and write history. I'd rather just be a nameless nobody far in the background.

[Chesspiece_face]

I'm a little late to this party but i'm a bit disappointed that what has been mentioned is mostly phrases which are culturaly maleable.

Manifest Destiny is a great term for this idea, it has a specific meaning and carries all sorts of implications for the time period as well as the development America took.

Were you to do this project again I would offer these to add: Carpetbaggers, Uncle Tom, Scopes Monkey Trial, Alien and Sedition Acts, Transcendentalism, Temperance, Jim Crow, Gospel of Wealth, Social Darwinism, Knights of Labor, The Gilded Age, Dollar Diplomacy, Muckrakers, Red Scare, Harlem Renaissance, McCarthyism, New Federalism...

These are just off the top of my head. some are more defining than others.

[Chesspiece_face]

and wondering what the eff happened. I do.

Maybe I do, but until I see a good enough reason to care, why should I? Because of some outdated concept of "the greater good"? I could bust my balls learning all the nuances and variations of our political system, learn as much as any college-level economist knows about our economic system, and all that stuff... but why bother? It has very little bearing on my life, and it wouldn't benefit me in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it'd just make life worse.

Let the heroes and martyrs work their magic and write history. I'd rather just be a nameless nobody far in the background.

There's your answer Pete.

[kandrathe]

I'm a little late to this party but i'm a bit disappointed that what has been mentioned is mostly phrases which are culturaly maleable.

Manifest Destiny is a great term for this idea, it has a specific meaning and carries all sorts of implications for the time period as well as the development America took.

Were you to do this project again I would offer these to add: Carpetbaggers, Uncle Tom, Scopes Monkey Trial, Alien and Sedition Acts, Transcendentalism, Temperance, Jim Crow, Gospel of Wealth, Social Darwinism, Knights of Labor, The Gilded Age, Dollar Diplomacy, Muckrakers, Red Scare, Harlem Renaissance, McCarthyism, New Federalism...

These are just off the top of my head. some are more defining than others.

Yeah, I chose particular quotes that represent various important times in US history. If you research who said it, then it opens to a broader context for discussion. For example, the quote "I'm glad I'm not Brezhnev. Being the Russian leader in the Kremlin. You never know if someone's tape recording what you say." was said by Nixon.

[eppie]

That said, I do believe that America is the best country to live in and be part of in the world (no offense to you Norwegians, of course:)) and that all these people running around and crying about tyranny and unfairness and whatever... just freaking leave and go to wherever you think the grass is greener. Once you're there for a few years, we'll talk again and see if you still feel the same way you did back then:P

Not because of me agreeing or disagreeing with you but just for my information so that I can see what you exactly mean, with which countries do you compare the US now?

[Artega]

Not because of me agreeing or disagreeing with you but just for my information so that I can see what you exactly mean, with which countries do you compare the US now?

The members of the European Union.

[kandrathe]

The members of the European Union.

That is still very broad. Do you like Napoleonic Law? How do you feel about Turkish prisons? There is a huge cultural variation from say Britain to Romania.

[Jester]

Yeah, I chose particular quotes that represent various important times in US history. If you research who said it, then it opens to a broader context for discussion. For example, the quote "I'm glad I'm not Brezhnev. Being the Russian leader in the Kremlin. You never know if someone's tape recording what you say." was said by Nixon.

That was what I was going for. Not necessarily things that have a completely unambiguous meaning, but phrases that are emblematic of a single, politically relevant "thing" that would then become, in some sense, the real topic of the research.

-Jester

[Kylearan]

Hi,

The members of the European Union.

[...]How do you feel about Turkish prisons? There is a huge cultural variation[...]

Nit: Turkey isn't a member of the EU. They try to become one (sometimes harder, sometimes not), but that's still decades away - actually because the cultural variation is just too huge in that case.;)

-Kylearan

[eppie]

The members of the European Union.

OK fine but in which of them have you actually lived for longer than a month?